for those curious about alcohol injection, i thought i'd share this info i found on smc's website ------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. How does alcohol injection work? By injecting a fine spray of alcohol into the inlet air stream of the engine you will both dramatically cool the charge air and raise the effective octane of the fuel. Both help to eliminate detonation-the enemy of any engine, especially those under boost with today's lower octane gas. 2. How much horsepower can I expect to gain? That depends on the application...but it is common to see a 20-30% increase in HP from the added boost and/or timing you will be able to run. We have over 1,000 turbo Buicks running over 20 psi on pump gas....some running as high as 24 psi! We also have a Stage 4 WRX running 24 psi and over 400 HP on pump gas. 3. Is alcohol injection hard to use? A good system will be fully automatic after it is installed. It should know when to spray and when to stop, and also offer tunability and monitoring of the system parameters. An "In-Car" controller is preferred. Even better is a "progressive" controller that will increase pump speed as boost increases. 4. Can alcohol injection damage my motor? No-as long as the injection system is working properly, it can only do good things. It will tend to keep your plugs, valves, and combustion chambers very clean, since the alcohol will dissolve carbon buildup. The damage from ignoring detonation is a blown head gasket, broken piston, or worse. 5. What if it stops working? Only a few higher-end injection systems offer a failsafe device to sense line pressure and not allow high boost unless the system is functioning properly. This is available on the SMC kits and is meant to be used with a factory or aftermarket boost control device. 6. What kind of alcohol do I use? SMC recommends pure denatured alcohol. It is sold as a solvent in gallon cans and is available in any large home improvement store such as Lowe's or Home Depot. This is grain alcohol that has been poisoned with a bit of methanol to make it non-drinkable. You may also use methanol if you have a source for it. Be sure to use the proper alcohol lubricant. (Klotz Uplon #kl-107 ) One ounce per gallon.
those who have or know a good amount about alky injection, please post ur feedback/knowledge here... a lot of members, myself included, are considering this in the near future so information more than 'it makes u faster' would be good to start off, i have a couple questions... are u guys running pure methanol/ethanol or running a mix with water? anyone experience any of the corrosive effects of methanol? anyone have a failsafe mechanism that limits boost if for some reason the alcohol stops spraying?
Thanks for posting this, its nice to see a decent write up on the subject. This should prove to help sort the matter out with new owners and those who are just confused on the matter.
Can you just throw some Everclear or Golden Grain in there instead? :beer: I've known the basics about it but hearing feedback from folks using it would be nice. How hard is it on your motor compared to nitrous? Both seem to have the same effect on cleaning your valves and cylinders out but one operates all of the time.
Yeah, TS meth kit is great, except I just wouldnt wan to run lines through the cabin to the engine bay. From a fire standpoint, I'd much rather have a fire contained in the engine than going straight through my cabin. However, TS kit offers a few advantages. Their kit is double the size of the SMC one (2L vs 1L)!
thinking about it, i wonder if a flame could pass through the line all the way from the engine bay to the trunk... unless the line burns along with it, there shouldnt be enough oxygen...
as long as you don't run 100% meth or denatured alcohol, you don't really have to worry about fire. Plus colorless flame of alcohol is pretty dangerous indeed. 50/50 mix greatly reduce the chance of catching fire with still high enough octane # to make more power.
From what ive been understanding lately. 100% Meth is corrisive. However for those worrying about engine damage etc. It appears that here is just not enough meth going to be sprayed to cause too much metal damage. When I read the reports on meth testing most damage was from where meth was destroying injector seals, fuel line equipment. However with a meth kit there will be no worry as the equipment is meth ready (Stainless etc.) Now if you were running it pure through your gas tank, sure it would run but there would then be fuel system damage and corrision of fuel tanks filler nexts, fuel rails manifolds etc. But not in this case. As far as internal engine damage. Even your basic for is fine running on most cars the percentage of fuel to meth is a mix. Its never 100 meth no gasoline. Meth will never just be sitting there on your aluminium heads and block corroding stuff.. IT is very corrosive to aluminum, but the problem happens if it is puddled or sits on the aluminum for any length of time. Between the air velocity going through the intercooler, and the hot temperatures in the Turbo and air stream, there will likely be evaporated or combusted. If its in your intercooler all that heat and air volume will cause it not to puddle up there. There are plenty of other racers who have used meth injection systems in the past with no corrosion problems...even with aluminum intakes, heads, and blocks. Jus by dropping some on the ground on a average day so will see how quickly it evaps. Its not gonna sit in a 110+ Deg charge pipe(block etc) eatin away at stuff. Now, there is some concern about wash down and it contaminating oil (Milo still waiting for analysis) But there are oils with additives (See royal purple etc that are made for cars that run with methanol) As well as top end lube/anti corrosion additives out there. .5% water is enough to lessen corrision if you are worried. In short go for it, I know I do. Keep a fire extingisher handy however. Oh btw meth aborbs water alot! So be careful about making sure the cap is shut.
Very well written Jason, I've been waiting for someone to actually say what we've been thinking for a while. I didnt know that they made oils with additives specifically for meth though. Pretty neat. Milo, I'm looking forward to putting that meth kit in on the 28th :bigthumb:
genya: i think i read a thread by liquidforce on nasioc saying it hurt his spark plugs... u experience this? alex: im lookin forward to it too... hope ss can get me a kit soon
I have the SMC tank that mounts in my underhood dept. During my drive to florida it didnt need a refill until 2 gas refills later. But if your on it alot you can easily eat up a tank in a night. Normally about one fill up of meth per gas tank. Meth isnt too expensive. Buy it at topspeed, or vp dealer, or online. They should have M-1 Racing Methanol has a 99.95% minimum purity - the highest purity available in the U.S. With M-1, engines run cooler and are less subject to corrosion. VP uses only lined drums which prohibit rust, corrosion and metal deposits that can contaminate fuel delivery systems. Recommended for all methanol-legal racing applications. On some occasions (*gasp*) I am lazy to get to either and run yellow HEET. Which i ran my 11's on. (Talk to your tuner first lol, im just lazy) But as another assurance... Heet is 99-percent anhydrous (water free) methanol along with some corrosion inhibitors to help prevent rust. So dont worry too much about corrosion, i believe VP meth has corrosion inhibitors as well. Its at walmart any auto store, most bp gas station. You know for emergencys its around. The oils are here: http://www.royalpurple.com/prodsa/rpro.html Just saying if you in the market, meth is everywhere, not too inconvient and fun. Nah my plugs are still nice, I believe liquid and I spoke and think it was from another issue. Irridium btw... Iridium has the best corrosion resistance of all metals STi's will have em stock, if you considering adding meth, talk to your tuner about heat range and pick a set. Some feel there is no need to go a step colder with meth. But see NGK for some when ur getting your meth, gonna want a fresh set anyways. Jason
milo my issues with the spark plugs had to do more with the fact that they had 20k miles on them. I thought they were newer than they actually were. One thing for certain though, was they were very clean when I took them out. The electrode had worn down to the point where the gap was .05 instead of the .026 they were originally gapped to. The only issue I had with them was that the gap was so big that when the alcohol would come on they would misfire with the too rich mixture. If I was just ruuning 93 or c16 that gap wouldn't have been a problem. <-- I also wish to try nitro-methane. I may go up to the vp dealer and get some today. Engines weren't meant to last forever
hnoes: Don't do the nitro! When I tried nitro, it got my spark plug so hot it was dieseling after I shut the ignition off (carbureted). And finished off the piston rings too. Of course it was the rc model nitro...
How were you injecting the nitro? Did you mix it with anything or inject it straight? I was thinking of running 90/10 meth/nitro mix. And if that works well moving up to a max of 80/20. I read this thread a couple of times and have done some other searches as well. I don't think the mix will yeild crazy power numbers but every little bit gets me closer to the 11's http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=451&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
How does meth compare to the muscle car solution of pouring toulene into the gas tank? I know that toulene is very corrosive to rubber if it's concentrated enough but can act as a pretty significant octane booster.
I picked up 40hp and 60tq from being able to lean it out and run more boost. I doubt toulene in the tank will get you anywhere near what meth injection does.
There is also an excellent write up here. http://www.turbofast.com.au/racefuel.html Let me know what you think. Im getting pretty curious. It seems like 10% is the best mixture per reading around.
That is a good write up. I pretty much figured it out by listening to people but it's good to know the techinical side of it.
Everyone with Meth inj READ! Check your nozzles! Mine was a little loose and was seriously messing up the tune. Boost leak and a meth leak = NO NO! Found this when I went to the Dragon. I don't think this is much an issue for TMIC but mostly FMIC guys because the piping is way thinner than the lip on the TMIC. The screw that the nozzle screws into the clamp onto the pipe can only go so far. When you tighten it on the Perrin FMIC pipe it feels snug but a little vibration and it swivels freely. I had to add a washer and another rubber seal that was bigger for added protection and it worked flawlessly and the car runs like it should now. Sooooo without further ado.....check your nozzles to be safe and make sure!
i dont think so... i believe the time for a tune depends on (a) how unique your setup is and (b) if u have been tuned by the same tuner before, then how much different the current setup is from the previous setup some worry about the corrosive nature of methanol... however, i doubt it sits anywhere long enough to corrode... yes, running higher boost can cause additional wear on components
Another warning that I just found yesterday. My pump has failed but I caught it. The seals on the pump gave out and the pump itself is pouring Meth. I am sure this is a fluke but I gotta call either SS or SMC today as I feel it should be under warranty. In the meantime no boost for me which is so hard....even wants to hit 12 psi boost in normal driving. Take this as a lesson people....that TEST button is there for a reason.
im not that sure anymore... you are the second SMC user whose pump failed... u r lucky that u caught it... the other owner has a hole in the block
This ought to be read by people considering meth injection too. No doubt it can add a ton of power, but you're also getting into an area where you risk serious damage if something goes wrong. Just make sure you can afford to fix it before going nuts.
I called SS and he sent me to Steve over at SMC....I think his name is Steve. He is usually good about replacing those. However if I was a second later then I bet that motor would've went KABOOM! Not ready for the 2.5 just yet. I knew something was up. Been going through the meth a lot lately and then right when the kit is supposed to start spraying I could feel a small blip in the power of the car. It is suppose to get smooth and then plant me in the seat but it had a slight hesitation. Got home tested the kit and found Meth all over the pump and below it. It dries up quick so it was hard to find it. Got my buddy to watch while I tested and it is shooting a stream onto the block! (WOAH FIRE HAZZARD). That seal has popped a leak but it looks like the entire case is backing off. I don't wanna mess with it and hopefully Steve will send me a pump outright and I'll send this one back once I get the new one. SS fussed at me again.....I need to get the Wideband so that if the meth isn't there in time I will see it in the AFR. Time to talk to my sponsor about that money he won on betting on me at the track. I'll try to get a video up for you guys to see the leak.
is u talk to the SMC guy, ask him is they have a failsafe kit... its supposed to lock the wastegate open if the line pressure drops below a threshold... u wont make any boost but u wont blow the motor either
Wouldn't a flow switch make more sense? If the injector won't spray for either reason you'll still have pressure if the pump works... a flow switch should let you know if the meth's actually going somewhere.
Talked to Steve at SMC. They are still working on the fail safe but it will be like a $100 or more option. Anyways I have to send him my pump and he is gonna replace it. I kinda wished he would just send me a pump and I return the old one but I didn't ask and didn't want to push that. I'm just grateful that he is gonna fix it under warranty. His customer service is TOP NOTCH! He also told me that I needed to dilute the Meth with 10% water but I think that will mess up my tune. I'll have to consult SS on that. However after I pay off a certain set of suspension parts I am getting a wideband and then turbo blanketing the meth kit to keep the heat down.
I took a vid of the leak for you guys. As soon as I get home tonight I'll post it up. You my friend are correct. Now I wonder how long this has been going on because when I took the tank and all off last night, you can see where the methanol has been leaking and apparently it has been for a while just not as bad. Makes me wonder if I have been running lean this entire time and got lucky and also is why the car freaking screams like it does. Hmmmmmmm? Here's a scarey thought. My battery has been relocated to the trunk since I did the FMIC. The power wire still runs from the factory location only I used a little distributor box to connect the stock power line and the new power line coming from the trunk. The methanol has been leaking and dripping on that box the entire time!!!!! Talk about a fire potential! I am gonna fix that now though and cover it all up.
Here's the video of the leak. Crappy quality but it was all I had at the time and the sun was glaring right into the hood making it wayyyyy to bright. If you look closely you can see the methanol spraying everywhere and then see it drip all over the place. http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/razzamagoo/?action=view¤t=MOV02215MPG.flv
Pump is back on its way as of yesterday. Steve said it looked like a fluke. The seal was slightly pinched and bad. He said that over time with 100+ psi of pressure going through that pump it finally gave out.
Well my pump has busted a seal yet again! Need I say more? Gonna to talk to Steve about the trunk mount location.
man i did not get enough sleep last night i was the thread title, and was like im gonna get wasted tonight thinking this thread was about drinking alcohol. damn /hijack
Would much rather have meth leaking in the trunk where there is little to no risk of a fire. In the engine bay I'm just asking for it.