I dont plan on doing anything like auto-x or track racing due to insufficient funding problems, so I`m looking for the best set of springs for everyday driving (meaning surviving ATL potholes, and not getting scratched up coming out of the steep driveways)... As many of you guys know, i`m rocking the 03 bugeye sedan It seems that the Espeliers perform the best with the highest spring rates? (i could be wrong, i want to say RCE has a higher spring rate), whereas the Swifts and the RCE also thought of comfort when designing their springs.
"The HPI and Avex Group Super Taikyu Imprezas only use Swift Springs" according to a vendor from NASIOC... but i could careless about the racing situations, because my car is just a daily drive going for the twisties once in a while. I think comparing Japanese racing series and street driving is kind of irrelevant, but each to his own.. and i DO NOT mean to bash the vendor, because i`m pretty sure there are lots of people looking for max performance rather than a daily sportiness like me so..
I have the Espeliers and love them. Plus the price was right and I think they handle perfectly for what I wanted. If i wanted something more aggressive I would have gotten coil overs. Plus the high spring rate seemed to jive best with the stock springs / pinks so hopefully strut wear will be a little less
is it ok to run stock dampers and top hats with the espeliers? so far i cant seem to make my decision between these three.. they all sound very good.
I was reading about swifts, and it seems they tend to degrade over time. Supposedly they redesigned them, but who knows how well that went. I've decided that I won't be risking it and instead will just go with prodrives in the summer.
that is good news.. although, now i am stuck with what to do first; springs or dampers? Damn. if changing out the dampers dont reqire an alignment, it might be cheaper, and i think there are less drawbacks from changing the dampers than changing the springs. but yea, now it's either RCE or Espeliers for the springs.
Alright, the first problem is that you've got an 02. The second problem is that you've got a WRX. The selection of springs for 02/03 springs sucks. Actually its fine for people that want slightly stiffer springs that are paired well to their stock struts. You'll end up with a spring that is ~20lbs stiffer per corner but with a nice drop. With the introduction of the STI in 04 companies started making two lines of springs, softer ones paired well to stock WRX struts, and stiffer ones that are paired well to stiffer STI dampers. The stiffest WRX aftermarket springs are still softer than stock STI springs. 04+ has different rear springs and tophats, in order to use 04+ springs on your 02 struts you'll need to use some ghetto washers between the strut and the newer tophat. Turn-in-concepts makes a spacer that is machined perfectly to allow you to use 04+ springs and tophats on 02 struts (or aftermarket struts like KYB AGXs and Tokico D-specs which are not made for 04+). The Racecomps and Espelir Active GT springs are going to be way stiffer than the stock struts can handle, it'll probably ride worse than stock due to underdamping stiff spring. The bobblehead effect on the STI is the opposite, it is caused by overdamping a soft spring, as such many people say the car rides better with stiffer springs. Swift makes springs designed for 02/03 WRXs but they are much softer then their STI rated springs. Espelir also has a lower classed spring, the Active Sport Down which lowers the car and has a much softer rate to match well to stock WRX struts. I believe it is designed for 02/03 cars. You can normally find 04 STI takeoff struts for fairly cheap, match them to a nice 04+ spring and you should be pretty happy. 05+ STI stuff wont fit. I just installed the Espelirs with some 04 STI struts last week and am very happy with how the car handles; my alignment sucks right now so I imagine it'll get better once I get my camber issues worked out. Hardly any body roll and a very noticeable different from stock. Moderate drop but the car hardly moves, I figured I'd rub on my wagon but its not low or soft enough to rub. You are going to need an alignment after doing springs or shocks, as both require removal of the entire stock assembly; if you're on a budget just get some whiteout and mark where the stock camber bolts are aligned on the hub. SPRING RATE CHART
I wouldn't even really rely on the whiteout method. If you can't pay for an alignment after a spring/strut removal I wouldn't even mess with them until the funds came around. You don't want to have to pony up for a set of tires after you change it (springs/struts) and it eats through your tires. As Bobby said, you've got an '02 WRX, do not pay attention to what people with STi's are running. They'll never work well with your car. It seems as though people that install the SPT or Prodrive springs are pretty happy with the results. Maybe you can look into one of those. Or as Bobby said, find some 04 STi take-off's.
Bobby, nice write up. Mokinbird, The best advice I can give you is go for some rides in cars with setups that you're thinking about it and take it from there. I had the Eibach Pro-Kit on my '03 bugeye and enjoyed them around town, as well as two track events at Little Tally. I now have the RCE's on my STi and I love them. They are stiff, yet still comfortable around town, with 'estimated' spring rates of 320/270 and a nice drop (too low to some...ahem Alex ). I'd be happy to take you for a spin at an upcoming G2G.
You are only interested in the highest performing springs out there, but you are not racing at all... Kind of strange. Are these for the twisties? RCE are supposed to be the best, because they have the highest spring rates, but your stock struts won't work well with them. The spring rate on Espelirs are fairly high, but not as high as the RCE's. Honestly, no spring is that good without a better dampening system. If you want something that handles better, go with a better strut, then get the springs later. Otherwise, any cheap spring will do the same as a good performing spring on stock struts. Used springs shouldn't cost much more than $150 for most decent sets.
Yeah if you're not racing maybe you should look at a setup a little less aggressive. If you want a drop without sacrificing ride comfort too terribly much I'd say look into Tein, Tanabe, or Eibach. There will still be a performance increase (not as much of course), but you should have a little more fun on Atlanta potholes.
My 2c is that I was starting to get a headache thinking of which spring would go well with 06 struts and I wanted RCEs, but they're not good with anything but STi struts and 06+ sti struts don't fit in 06 WRX and yada yada... so Prodrive springs were like $330 or more and they were the next best things, Tein is in the same price range. So I decided to jump on Monk's coilovers and they do kick ass. Going to SOG today to get the corner balance done then alignment. So matching things with your strut, which may be even more limited is a big headache unless you want just something, no matter what. Then you can get like Tanabe which are cheap, drops a lot, and is ok.
You suggest he doesnt want to sacrifice ride comfort but suggest teins or tanabes? :rofl: Both of those will make your car feel like complete crap inho, the tanabe gf210s are bouncy as all hell, and also feel like the car will fall apart when you hit a pot hole, atleast this was the case for me, and many others on iwsti.com, and anything tein isnt going to be comfy imho. You want comfort? You go for jdm pinks or prodrives, something along those lines. Anyways, im on the RCE's now, love them to death. Immediately felt the difference from the tanabes. They are nice and stable, offer great performance, and there is no bobblehead feeling
the reason why i`m resaerching a lot is because i was SOOOO disappointed from my buddy's 05 wrx paired up with tein (s-tech or h-tech, cant really remember, but the worse one), because it was SO stiff and didnt allow any movement. right now, i think a good idea for me is to purchase a stiffer tophat to withstand the stress (it`d be nice if i can afford pillowballs), and get new dampers (probably tokico-D), and sway bars, then springs, and then the right set of tires to match the mods. here is my plan: 1) group-n tophats 2) tokico-D dampers 3) whiteline solid swaybars, probably 27+ up front, and anything higher than stock at the rear. 4) springs of my choice (leaning towards RCE springs...) 5) yokohama prada-2s or the Falken RT615.. leaning towards the yokohamas b/c of treadwear. as far as grip and steering feel, i`ll be happy with anything better than my stupid goodyear eagle rs-a..long story short, the car came with those when i bought it. and there is noooo way i`ll ever buy the TEINs... HORRIBLE. maybe if i was into looks, but i could careless about the look, i just want my car to perform better. and it seems like most springs WILL give you better looks anyways, it's just a matter of being able to drop that front, and i personally believe subaru engineers might have left the front like that on purpose. i dunno, but what i`m saying is looks dont matter that much unless it is hideaous.
^ will that set-up (#1-5) above be enough for me to compete in auto-x? the only thing that is stopping me from auto-x is buying tires.. i mean nonetheless, i`d be left with a very nice handling wrx for daily drive.
The tophats are not completely necessary to handle the "stress". I have been running on the stockers for a while and do a lot of autox. Change your order so that #1 is last. Your friends springs were most likely the S techs, which any sport spring sucks for handling and comfort. You may not find the D-specs used, which means you will be paying close to 450. The KYB AGX you can find used and are a great competer. Its what I use and the adjustments are great. Soft is comfortable, and stiff is great for autox. You could find a set of those used for less than 200.
You know, there is a stock class in autox right? I'd go with pink's if I did it all over again. Just because your car is slammed doesnt mean its handling properties are necessarily improved. RCE's are far too low IMO. Also, I honestly feel like the grp-n's arent really needed. You could save yourself money in the long run by staying with stock top-hats. If you feel the need to have more control, put a set of camber plates in on the front. Ive been through a few different suspension setups, my current one is as follows... Grp-N rears (left over from a previous purchase 2 years ago), PDE v2 camber plates front, RCE springs, stock 05 struts.
as in start to sag, and thus requiring a new set. I was thinking about Swift as well as they were cheaper.
Haha well I stand corrected. I was always under the impression that these springs were basically for appearance more than anything else. I mean there are also the H-Techs for tein and the nf210 for tanabe. I always thought that they just didn't improve the handeling that much, not make it worse. Anyways, it doesn't matter regardless because he seems to have quite the grandeous plan for his suspension.
are RCEs really that low? man, i personally dont want to go too low because i think that hinders me from being able to drive faster on the street :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I dont know, i`m still leaning towards RCEs for some reason. I think it was good for me to research thoroughly b/c i would have never guessed about changing the dampers. btw, do you guys mean struts as in tophats, or is it something else?
top hats = strut mounts = black things you see in your engine bay where the struts are. Get the RCE's then, everyone else seems pleased... In regards to strut life, I think you're looking at something like 10 year life decreased to 5 year life.
This is what people mean by struts, BTW, thats the cheapiest set of new KYB's you can get. Used are a little less. Do them first, get springs later, screw the tophats like Alex says. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KYB-...590QQitemZ170091029884QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
If you can swing around 300 bones there are a couple of already assembled KYB AGX sets with various spring options FS on nasioc. One of them had some Ground Control coilover springs with nice rates and another, one had prodrives, one had eibachs. AWD_Tiger has the Tokico shocks on his car, sometime soon me and him are going to spend some time swapping cars around and hitting some curves to see which setup is better, his Tokicos and 02 Prodrive springs, or my Espelirs and STI struts. Last time I drove his car I was very impressed with the shocks. Tokico shocks are 02/03 design so you're going to need the TiC strut spacers to fit them to 04+ springs and rear tophats.
i`m guessing the RCE springs are 04+ specs, and that's why i would need the spacers if i get the tokicos right? i guess the ultimate set-up for me would be tokicos+RCEs, and the cheap set-up would be stock everything+ SPT springs... I think if i wanted to keep everything stock, i`ll probably do either SPT or Prodrive, but if i can wait and save more moola, i`ll get my ultimate set-up.
leaning towards RCE springs if i have enough money to get new set of struts. if not, i`ll probably settle for either the SPTs or the Prodrives.
just a question; will it be nice if i get bilstein struts and RCE springs on my 03 bugeye? edit* i cant find just the struts for a wrx.. they are all coilovers. so my question is, would it be nice if you can install bilstein struts from the legacy GTs and mate it with the RCE springs? or should i save money and hassle and settle for prodrives on stock struts? I`m a huge noob at struts, so can anyone tell me what kind of measurements are read for struts? (like spring rates for springs..)