Well, I didn't do it. The guy at Just Brakes who was test driving my car after putting new brakes on it scattered 2nd gear throughout my transmission hnoes: . Unfortunately, I have no idea if he was abusing my car when he drove it, or if this was gonna happen anyways and it just happened to happen as he was driving it. Needless to say, I need a new transmission. I had my car towed to SOG earlier today, and need to figure out somethings ASAP. For those of you who have had this happen to you before, what would you recommend? I know my options are to rebuild it, rebuilt it with RA gears, get a new one, or get a 6 speed. What kinda cost am I looking at? Any help is really appreciated right now, as this is the last thing I had time to deal with this summer. I'm borrowing my sisters car for the next few weeks to get to work and back :wtc: . Thanks, Craig
I'd think he'd need to be abusing it since you're relatively stock. Sue their ass and get a 6spd. If you've gotta keep the 5spd go with some RA gears for a cheap solution, although they're still pretty weak if you're wanting indestructable gears.
Hey alright! Welcome to the club! First off I think that I would have a thing or two to say to the Just Brakes people... What is their position on what happend? Are you going to try to hold them responsible? As far as what to do goes...I just went through this about a month ago. I was going to just go with a stock replacement 5MT, but I had an oportunity to get a used RA gearset at a great price, so I went with that, and I love it. The shorter gearing is really nice, and my HP goals don't exceed 300. The things you need to consider are. 1.What your goals are with the car. 2. Financial reality Number 1 is a big question. For instance, I am planning on keeping my car for a very long time...10+ years. I would like an entire STi Power/Drivetrain, but that is not financially feesable for me anytime soon. Even though I probably could have tried to stretch and find a 6MT I would have had to make a lot of compromises. So, even though I ultimately want an STi tranny, I decided to go with the best I could get now that was within my budget...and I got lucky. Realistically you may not be able to afford more than the stock 5MT replacement/rebuild. The rebuild will be the cheapest option, but then you will still have the originall 02 5MT in your car. The newer 5MTs have stronger gears in them, they are not as strong as the RA or 6MT, but they are still better than the original 02 trannies. It is not a bad tranny if it is not abused. I was the 4th owner of the 02 WRX that I am driving now. Who knows what happend to it before I had it. I don't drag race my car, I have never damaged a transmission, and I consider myself a good driver, which is why I was seriously considering the stock 5MT replacement. I was struggling between a USED RA gear set without a warranty vs. a brand new 5MT with a warranty. It came down to risk vs cost...and based on the history/info that I was given about the used RA set that I was considering I feel that I made a safe decision. From the way you worded your post, it sounds like you are stressing about affording this. Both the 6MT and RA set swaps are not cheap. Plus, it is not that easy to get a brand new RA gear set, the compaines that supply them (Gruppe-S, Rallispec, and ???) don't usually have them in stock which means if they don't have any you will be looking at more down time (+ months). I am not trying to discourage you from the RA set or 6MT, if you can do it, go for it! I would personally recomend the 6MT swap, especially if you like driving the twisties. First Identify what your goals are with the car...realistically, and then look at your current finances and reality, and what you can afford/deal with, and then make a smart decision. and for what it is worth, you and I have almost the exact same mods.
I know I wouldn't be paying for that new tranny. But thats just me. Just Brakes would be buying me a STi Tranny
Just Brakes position is that, they seemed pretty worried. I spoke with them on the phone later, and they are going to report it to their upper management and we'll take it from there. I'm not sure yet whether or not to hold them fully responsible or what, and I wouldn't want to screw them over if it was just coincidence. For all I know it was going to happen today, and it just happened to be when I got new brakes. On monday I'll talk with them and SOG and figure out what to do. Needless to say though, Just Brakes was worried and came out to talk with me while I waited for the tow truck, and while I was waiting I noticed that the regular technician wasn't doing test drives after that :rofl: . I need to find out prices and everything first. I plan on keeping my car for a long time, and not go over 300 HP. My car is protuned with an ACT Clutch Flywheel and some other mods, so while it's not stock it's not a monster either. Plus, I know how to drive my car, and so do my parents (being from Scotland, all they had were manual cars), and since we were the only people to drive my car I'm pretty confident that it wasn't abused. I'll just have to figure out what route I want to go, and how much money I can pay for this. Being a college student it won't be easy, but maybe I can take a loan out or borrow money from my parents for the time being. Anybody know a break down of costs for these things? Craig
IF YOU DO NOT MAKE THEM PAY FOR IT YOU ARE A FOOL!!!!!!! You probably wont get a 6 speed out of it, but they WILL replace your 5 speed. edit: don't feel bad about it. nobody you'll talk to will come out of pocket on it. If the mechanic has a history of this he'll get fired, but he needs to be. If it's not his fault then he'll keep his job. Just be nice yet firm in your stance. There is no telling what really happened and if you don't hold them to the fire I think you're crazy.
+1 100% - Your tranny was good when you went in. It's fucked now. They need to pay. Get a lawyer if they refuse to pay.
Is it possible for a transmission that is working fine to break after one bad drive? I mean, how bad would this guy have had to be driving before 2nd gear goes out if it was completely fine before? Funny thing is, one of them suggested that it could be the clutch that broke... If the clutch broke, then why the hell would every gear BUT 2nd engage? :rofl:
yeah, you could take a brand new 02 of the lot and blow the tranny if your dumb enough. I bought an '06 wrx tranny when my '02 went. cost me 2200 shipped with EVERYTHING needed to make the install work ('06+'s have pull type instead of push type clutch assemblies). but your clutch could be the cause of your tranny failure. i've heard that anything but stock clutch (or stock replacement clutches) put too much strain on the trannies themselves.
Look dude, I know how these things break, and if it was FINE when you let them work on it, and it broken after the test drive, thats more than enough evidence. If it was 'on its way' to breaking, you would have been able to tell way before hand. Its rather obvious. They need to pay for 100% of the costs for fixing the transmission. FYI for a complete brand new 6MT swap (Legacy Spec B transmission w/STi helical front diff and all NEW stuff everywhere else) is $9,000 out the door from us. Depending on the damage inside the trans, an RA gearset is $1400 or so, labor to install the gears is $1600, plus whatever other additional parts would be needed. Additional parts may range from under $200 to all the way up to $3000. Now if 2nd REALLY exploded REALLY badly, and all the bearings are screwed and the ring and pinion from all the debris...it can easily be $3000 in additional parts. However, since it sounds like the car was not driven 'too far' with 2nd blown, you might be lucky....
What i installed in his is more like stock than anything else....its the unsprung stage 11ty billion 3/4/6 puck clutches that shudder really bad on engagement that does the most damage. Most of the stage 1/1.5/2 organic stuff is perfectly fine.
Yeah, but it's also possible that my clutch works fine with the stock transmission, as long as you drive it how you should drive it. For all I know the technician decided to have a field day with my car when he took it for the test drive because he knows they are pretty fast. What is really bothering me is that the paperwork they gave me only noted that there was clicking in the transmission and to get it checked ASAP, and the guy originally said it wasn't test driven. Then after I come back another guy comes out and says it was test driven, and the technician noticed that 2nd gear was gone. Why they didn't note that in the paperwork is a mystery to me. I'm gonna talk to them on Monday and come down hardball on them, see what we can get sorted out. Will (WJM), can you chime in or PM me your cellphone number? I'd like to discuss all this with you asap, since my car is at your service department and I know you do excellent work. I also have some questions that I would like to ask you before I actually talk to Just Brakes. Thanks, Craig P.S. When Just Brakes advertises "$89.99 New Brakes Most Cars Most Times", a 2002 Subaru WRX is the "Other Car Other Time" :fawk:
As is every other car on the road. Look, they're going to try to get out of it because they know it's their fault and problem. Unless you have thousands sitting around collecting dust I'd be their worst nightmare.
I can tell you that the RA gearset is strong enough to handle at least 306awhp 314ft lbs with some pretty nasty launches. Check out the thread of where we went to commerce yesterday. It was my first time ever racing my car of any kind and at least 2 times I got out launching above 6500. NO PROBLEMS If I sell my stang Monday Night (which looks 95% certain) I will have enough for a full STI driveline in the bugeye. I may sell my tranny with RA gears...Gotta go 2.5L with 6mt EDIT: Make them pay for it...FIGHT it may very well take some time but they will give. tell them they need to pay 4500 for my tranny pocket 1500 and buy mine. LOL but seriously. I also had a similar situation in the stang JiffyLube put manual tranny fluid in my stang but anyone who knows stangs know that the manuals take ATF.
Just Brakes is a fucking asshole company in general. Their strategy is to lure people in with their "$99.88 brake special performed by a brake safety expert" and then fuck them over with $1k+ worth of "you need this done for the car to be safe to drive". I suspect your transmission was fine, and not 99% broken and a gentle gear shift by the fine technician just pushed it over the edge. Get the bastards to pay for it.
Ya know...in all my test driving...I've never broken anything. IBgotsolsayssomethingaboutscoobnuts-yougavemepermissionsothatdoesntcount
^^you better knock on WOOD!!! DO NOT allow yourself to budge and quite frankly I would like to know your disposition when it all happened. Did you use phrases like these tranny's are known to be weak or It was gonna happen sooner or later. ya know what I mean. You have to be FIRM that for them to break a tranny doing a test drive could only happen with abuse. I admit I broke 2nd in my car and it was just over redline while showing some asshat their IQ (bastard cut me off and I was in a horrible mood) needless to say my mood only got worse from there. LOL now that I look back on it.
Unfortunately, the burden of proof will be on him. Wether he uses his own insurance or a lawyer to help him go after them, it will be up to him to get documentable professional opnions, mechanics' written forensic diagnostics, affidavits, etc etc etc. All i can tell you is DON'T GET BOGGED DOWN. Call someone involved at least once EVERYDAY when working on this. Its easy to lose stamina in a liability fight, but don't stop until you're shifting a 6th gear for the first time.
get a lawyer. its not going to be easy to make them pay because if you CANT PROVE it was THEIR fault , then they cant prove it wasnt their fault what i mean is, they can blame it on just a transmission failing, something breaking for no reason, just happened to be while they had posession of it. Unless you can prove he was abusing the car an thats why it failed, it will be hard to win in court This is like getting your oil changed, and on the way home the motor starts knocking. what if there is oil in the motor? you paid for an oil change an got it. can you prove it was something they did wrong? you paid for brakes and got brakes. your transmission failed on a test drive. was it really their fault? Im not trying to side with them, and god knows i HATE JUST BRAKES. NEVER GO THERE EVER AGAIN, what a ripoff. im merely trying to tell you if they want to play hardball it will be hard. GET A LAWYER NOW, and be ready to fight from day one. Im not sure if you can do it on scoobys, but maybe you can pull the last few min of run time from the ecu, see what rpm it was at? is that possible? good luck
If I did anything with a lawyer in this situation it would pay the bare minimum to have them draft a letter addressing the siriousness of the situation. I would not *hire* them so to speak as if they will not just come off the money and fix it why incur the exta cost of the lawyer. Just my 2 cents I would however sit in their waiting room arguing with them daily in front of customers so that they want pay just to get rid of you. I would bet the farm they would fix it if it were mine. Do not mess with my car, woman, or money or I will get nasty!
At first I came back angry, then cooled off a little bit and said that I have heard of this happening, and then later they came out really worried, and I said I would check with Subaru and then get back to them (they wanted me to get back to them, because they are required to write a report). However, whatever I said is trumped by a Subaru Technician (Will). I've already spoken with him, and according to what he is saying the evidence is pretty clear that the guy must have been abusing the car in order to break it. Needless to say, I will be talking to will first thing Monday morning when he gets to SOG, then getting in touch with Just Brakes and explaining the seriousness of the situation, as well as tell them exactly what the Subaru Technician, who sees this kind of thing, has to say about the situation. It seems like the facts and what Will has to say should be more than enough to convince them. Plus, I think my dad is going to call Just Brakes (the title is under his name currently), and he's got a really deep Scottish accent and 25 years of business experience that makes him pretty scary when he's pissed off. Thanks for all the advice everybody, I'll keep y'all posted as to what happens over the next few days. Craig
Great sounds like you handled the situation perfectly. Will will do you right and rightfully so because they it can only be abuse. I have several friends that are mechanics outside the suby world and they test drive cars and do so gingerly because of such situations. I would bet you are not slapping down enough to warrant anything breaking had they ran to maybe 4000rpms...the dude ran the redline taking it for a joy ride and they are gonna pay. Good luck
So, assuming we can get Just Brakes to assume responsibility, what are my best options? We can't charge them for more than what it would cost to replace the transmission with a brand new off the shelf 5 speed transmission (I looked in the OEM catalog and that would be ~$3800+labor). So let's assume we get them for $4500, and I don't want to spend any out of the pocket, what would everybody recommend? I am also really busy this summer, I'm a co-op student at Georgia Tech working at Panasonic for the summer, and don't really have time to search for a used transmission on NASIOC (my sister will need her car back eventually). Would an RA gear rebuild be my best option? does anybody have any other alternatives to suggest. I'm looking for the least hassle fix with the most reliability without me having to pay out of pocket. Thanks, Craig
like was posted earlier IF you are lucky enough to order and them have one is stock you are golden(always the recommended route you know the origination). Not likely...I waited what seemed like forever for mine to come in and then they go out for micropolish/cryo-treatment. But like I said if I sell the stang tomorrow we might can work something out. Mine only has about 4k on it and alot was several trips to FL...Last night was the first time I abused it (drag strip). Good news is I only got to go 7 times
Sorry this happened man...my only advice to add from the other great comments are that if you do decide to empower a lawyer...Georgia has a verbal contract...so anything you say to a lawyer as far as any sort of "contract" is binding....don't be under the assumption that you need to sign something first...you might already know this but if not...now you do....I learned this hard way myself....good luck!!!!
craig, get them to pay for it. they broke it, its their responsibility. if you need anything, shoot me a PM and i will give you my new cell number
My mods: Helix Flex Uppipe, Stromung Shorty Downpipe, some custom 3rd cat delete, Stromung 2.5" dual tip catback, Accessport w/ Protune by Scott Siegel, Samco Y-Pipe, ACT Street Clutch w/ Lightweight Flywheel (13.1 lb). The rest of my mods are just stuff like suspension and looks, so my car is tuned pretty well and is somewhat powerful, but nowhere near over powerful. Will said my mods wouldn't be anything near powerful enough to cause the damage without abuse. Craig
I want to start looking for alternative tranny's too. Does anyone know where to find a JDM tranny? I googled it but only jdm honda parts and old forum threads come up
I would get them to pay for a complete new OE transmission, once that is approved we would order you the earl 2004 spec transmission. Its a direct bolt in, and has the better gears in it. The late 2004 has the same gears, but a different front diff with the different axles.
Both are the same 'strength' but the RA's are different ratios. Also some RA sets are cryo treated which increases strength, some are cryo and polished. Both the later 2003+ USDM WRX gears and RA sets go thru the same build process from FUJI. The 2002 and early 2003 USDM WRX's have the same gear build process as the N/A cars...thinner gears and not the same materials.
Not sure about all of that but I can find lots of blown 04+ 5mt's. I have only found one RA broken it was 1st with way more hp than the 350/380 rating. I know they are few of them out there but I cannot find but that one. Gearing sux if you drive a lot of hwy otherwise if you do Auto X they are great although I have yet to try them on the auto X.
If you get the gears, get them laser peened yourself. It cost me like $180 and I sleep a lot better at night.
I have also seen alot of broken 03+ trans...we've got 2 broken 06 WRX's up here now. But an RA gear will break the same as an 03+.
Just so everyone knows...I have the car in my hands now, and I'm taking it apart right now. So far...there's lots of teeth and other metal in the oil.
this doesnt make any sense to me. "then they cant prove it wasnt their fault"...is that a bad thing? If so, I love that shops can't prove that they DIDNT break my car 'Proving' aside, he drove in with a working 2nd gear and when they gave the car back to him, no 2nd gear. Seems pretty obvious that Johnny mechanic thought he could bang the WRX gears like all the civics he's used to test driving:keke: I'm glad its getting fixed, hopefully the shop will eat the cost
WJM - Show me a power rating on any OEM 5mt gearset that meets or exceeds 350awhp. It is readily known for the RA gearset. I am not saying that mine are unbreakable as SS put it but they ARE stronger than OEM!
I dont have any charts. But i know its been done....however, the 02~early03 sets usually straight up break around 330~380. The later 03+ usually holds more.
Coolrex has like 350/350 or something on his stock 04 transmission. Drag raced many times. BTW: I got the transmission apart a few hours ago. 2nd is wasted and so is the rest of the trans.
mine broke at 250 in gear at 7K but anyways I think to say that it is the same when that was not what was preached when I purchased mine...FROM SOG. I have also spoke with your buddies at prestige and unless they are misleading said they have only seen a few RA's break and all were on beasts. BTW they do over 100 of the RA's per year unless that is a lie. But as we know Sam Crapenter has lied before.