So i finally am at a point where i will be purchasing front and rear sway bars.. im going to get 27/29 front.. what should my rear bar be?
whatever you decide to get, purchase them at Turninconcepts.com, a company that actually does R&D so we should all supoort them, plus free shipping and probably the lowest price you'll find on whiteline sway bars
i second that. Chris @ Turninconcepts was great with communication and making sure i was happy with something even as little as the shift knob i got.
Depends on how you drive. It makes the front of the car 'plant' better and reduces body roll at the same time...it will make the car feel like it is pushing, but only because most ppl get to the limit quick with stock struts/springs with bars F/R and your average street tires. I'd recommend the 27/29 front bar and staying with a stock rear bar. Rear bars make the car more 'snap happy' (snap oversteer) during transitions and turn in. If you MUST upgrade the rear...get the 22 adjustable to start with. I am running an 18mm rear on my WRX, with the 27/29 front. With the 22 adjustable, the car was lifting the inside rear off the ground during peak cornering G's. The 18mm solved this. IIRC you've already got springs...so I'd just do the front for now.
That still means start with JUST the front bar for now. Springs/sti struts or coilovers would be better spent money over the rear bar.
I do not agree and I have run a larger bar to start with. Since the 03's come 17mm stock, I upgraded the rear first to the 26mm whiteline. My car had ZERO snap oversteer with KYB AGX/Eibach setup. It had a dull smooth rotation that helped a large amount in the slow tight corners. I have recently upgraded to a strano 32mm fsb and I still do not have any snap oversteer. The 32mm helped improve my dynamic camber a lot and I can carry so much more speed in and out of the corners, but it is very noisy. It will push like you said if you go too fast into the corner. I would in your case replace the front first, because you do not have an 03, but you can definitely go larger on the rear bar, and this is from a 1.5 years experience on just a rsb.
Well, I'm disagreeing with Will too.... I had the stock rear bar on with a 27/29 FSB, set at 27, and the rear of the car definitely rolled more than I wanted it to. When I put my 22/24/26 bar on the back I was much happier and found the car to be nicely balanced. During medium aggressive driving or in slippery situations the car definitely pushes a little, unless you intionally wag it a little but it's not hard to get some oversteer. I've never had it snap oversteer on me, but on that note I don't think Will was saying it would, actually I took it to mean that with that setup you'd have more of a chance of wagging the tail when you didn't mean to, if you haven't ever experimented with exactly what it takes to rotate an AWD car. In really aggressive driving I've actually made all four wheels slip at the same time, at high speed mind you, and that is one hell of a rush. You should definitely do it in a safe place though.
The people who are very aggressive with steering inputs will have snap oversteer due to upsetting the car....1000% worse than when stock. People who drive the car like they've got some sense will not experience it....like clemson and bluetwo. I just dont recommend the RSB as a safety factor...as I know of lots of people that have purchased a RSB and ass-ended the car into something. However, if I know that said driver is not going to do stupid stuff...I'll recommend it. I still firmly believe that the $ would be well spent else were. To each their own.
In the context of AutoX, I drove a car with a 24mm whiteline rear bar last weekend and 27mm front bar, both on full stiff, and I wouldn't call it snappy, but it was a nice feeling over our old setup. With the way the car setup, I was able to get the tail to slightly kick out for each cone in the slaloms, and it was quite nice, and easy to control. It was extremely refreshing, compared to our A-stock setup, where you have to really throw the car to make the rear step out. Cusco Zero-2R coilovers with stock rates on them were also on the car. We will run the strano bar this weekend, with a 24mm rear whiteline bar, unless the 27mm whiteline bar arrives at SOG before we leave for the 24hr autoX. -- Brian
OMG... 26mm rear and how in the world do you guys not get snap oversteer, when i`m scared to take any turns too fast with a 22mm adj? i guess it REALLY depends on the way you drive the car. for me personally, if i was to do swaybars again, i`d go small on the rear (although definitely bigger than stock for just a little bit of more rotation, but not to a point where u get oversteer), and BIG on the front. i`d say 27f/22r is a good combo. i REGRET a lot for not going big at the front. understeer set-up is faster on the streets anyways- if you`re not gonna auto-x or track race, go bigger on the front. but if i auto-x, i would run a big bar at the back (hehe although i have never auto-x).
I've found my car to be more neutral with the rear bar. When I moved it to the '23' setting it a noticeable difference in my case. Rear was more inclined to rotate around and the front pushed slightly less. Sure if I throw it full force into a turn it's going to understeer, but slow down and power through the turn and the rear does come around more. Haven't tried 24 yet, I would assume it's even more rear happy. Still thats the way I like it, understeer FTL! I've never had snap oversteer. When it was wet(empty road) I accidentally touched some paint and began a 4-wheel slide through the turn but it was very controllable.
i think... if you do the traditional slow-in, fast-out method, rear bar will help significantly, whereas if you`re like me, and you would rather improve the entry speed of the car, go big on the front. i think that the wrx already has crazy corner exit speed (thank you AWD), and for a novice driver like me, ESPECIALLY on the streets, i`d rather deal with understeer at the limit than oversteer. but if you dont push the car too much, i think a large rear bar will be ok. i personally think it would not be too fun if you had to do some emergency manuevers on the road with heavy rain and your rear end swings around. i am a firm believer that there is a reason why EVERY SINGLE AUTOMOBILE MAKERS set the car to understeer (look at the camber angles on all cars). i dont think there is a problem of slightly altering the behavior of the car, but if you totally change the terminal behavior, you end up living the risk. like i have said before, perhaps it's better on a race course, but i highly do not recommend it for daily driving (i feel like i had better control of my car at the limits with the stock set-up, despite the fact that i might have bit more grip in the turns). on a conventional car, bigger rear bar WILL make the car handle better, but due to the McPherson set-up (according to TIC), running bigger at the front will be more beneficial.
Fixed This type of handling just doesn't apply to autox/road racing, but to the streets. If you want to be fast anywhere a neutral setup is the best. I have seen people understeer on mountain roads and right off the mountain road. Just saw this: http://www.wrxatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15260. Read why he went off the road. Engine is more expensive than spare tire in the trunk.
There's no way to say this = this and that = that, not in every situation with so many different set ups like we all have. But my theory is anything bigger on the rear than on the front is asking for oversteer, at least on our sedans. For example 26F and 26R might be a little oversteery but go up any more, like 26F and 28R and it'll get worse and worse as you go higher. People will disagree based on alignment settings I guess, but this theory makes sense to me which is why I just went a little bigger up front and with my adjustable bars the closest I can even think about to getting unbalanced is 27F and 26R. Any input is of course welcome. If you know I'm wrong I'd love it if you'd correct me.
Here's my novice input; With the stock 19mmFSB and the 20mm RSB I experience a fairly neutral ride with a hint of oversteer when I push it out or work the brakes mid corner, but all that is mainly due to manipulating the balance of the car, rather than any preset norms. The car feels and drives like it should. The Megan's make it nice and stiff but not overly so with these moderate sizes. I really want to compare how it handles to Matt's RS with the Tribeca FSB. I've read so much conflicting information about sway bar combo's it's really hard to get an answer without actually experiencing it first hand. Of course I could be completely off due to the switch in chassis type but this is mostly what I've experienced.
Lots of misinformation going on in this thread. Buy both bars, with both bars you can adjust them so that the car will feel more neutral. When the car is neutral you should be able to make it rotate or oversteer on throttle when you are at the limit...on track. With sways you are changing how quickly and how hard the car rolls into the camber curve...and how far into the camber curve it rolls. When you adjust the bars you are adjusting how far it rolls over onto the tire, if it rolls over too much you stiffen the bar to maximize the contact patch. A bone stock sti with sway bars is a lot of fun on track. If you need help dialing them in at the next track day let me know Ill be happy to help.