my friend is looking to replace his 2006 civic LX (yes i DID influence him a lot with my wrx) with something more performance oriented, yet still practical. he is practically sold on the turbo engine, launch control, DSG, ESP, stock xenon kit, and all the electric gizmos on the vw, whereas he likes the look of the si better (i disagree hehe). STi is out of the question because he is shopping for new cars only. i did tell him to look at the new wrx or an 06, but he thinks it`s too fast for him from the way i drive my car, and he says, "i`ll kill myself if i got an sti, or even the wrx (although i tell him soo many times how safe subarus really are, he wont listen). if i was him, i`d get the 06 wrx, but since the choice is limited between the VW and the Honda, it became insanely hard to decide.. Honda practicality and reliability or VW bells and whisltes? (or subaru practicality, reliability, performance, and sex appeal hehehe). do keep in mind that VW gains A LOT from just a simple ECU tuning.
Si's get mad gains from a tune too. I've seen a 60 hp gain on a hondata ecu on a stock rsx k20 motor (the same in the si) I'd personally get the si, I think I read somewhere its a close competitor with the gti, and cost alot less. But you do lack a turbo, but with a turbo kit, the si will be in the 300's easily. My old rommate had an 02 turbo'd and man that thing was a beast. But try harder to persuade him into the Subie world!
vw's (and audi in general) respond well to just tuning as well. and if he wan't to mod, then might as well get the car that already has the turbo in place. if he's uncomfortable with how he drives and getting an sti/wrx, then let him learn with something less powerful. i'm tired of seeing kids getting sti's and then doing something profoundly stupid, which in turn raises everyone else's insurance.
VW FTL~ fwd audi wannabe. tell him to get the mazdaspeed3. it looks good enough, turboed, and faster than the wrx,civic,and the gti. if he wants to mod and get a mod friendly car.... evo wins hand down.
says the miata driver... why wouldn't he just get a miata? great first sports car and real easy to modify. can't ask for better handling out of a stock car.
If he is also looking for practical, which believe the original thread states, than the Miata would be out. On top of that, I was at the dealer for service the other day and they had two on the lot stickered at 22-23. With a little haggling, I bet you could get out the door, tax, tag and title for about that amount. Plus, mazdaspeed has a package that bumps output to 300hp now... Read about it here: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=122361
well, yeah, mx5 is not very practical... 22-23K doesn't get the 300hp though, so he would still be in NA territory wouldn't he? and is the 3 engine internals the same as the turbo'd mazdaspeed 3? (edit: turbo does start at that price, nice ) idk, i would still opt for the turbo car that has the internals that can handle turbo, rather than try to retrofit that kind of stuff on a NA car that prob doesn't have the internals for it. of course we're digressing, since the talk was about vw vs. si but he really should just get a wrx and most importantly, he needs to drive both and throw them around a bit to see what works for HIM
I think that civic SI looks pretty sweet(I don't think I'd fit into one...but sweet). The GTI is nice as well, but I'm guessing more expensive to buy and maintain... Its a toss up!
+1 for MS3. 263hp and 280 lb ft of torque in an attractive 5 door for $23K. Not a bad deal if you ask me. Also the clever electronics keep that torque in check in 1st-3rd gear. If it was RWD or AWD, I would be driving one instead of my 8. Blevn, was that a good or bad floored?
If you're on the gas, 60 mph comes up in 5.7 seconds, 0.2 second quicker than the stock Mazdaspeed 3. The tuned car runs through the quarter-mile in 14.1 seconds at 100.7 mph, compared to the unmodified car's 14.2 seconds at 100.1 mph. not as fast as i expected a 300hp car to run the quarter..
Its still software limited in first gear to reduce torque steer I believe. That was a good, "Glad I didn't look before I got the Miata1" floored as I might have tried to talk myself into the 3 and a used miata which would have ultimately sucked...
Cool, cause I came really really close to buying one. I know that if I had driven one I would have probably bought it. I don't regret the 8 one bit though. Front sway bar is coming off the 20th it seems. Upgrade going on. I will have your bars after the 20th. yeah the electronics are still limiting the car in low gears to keep the car from understeer and torque steer. I am sure going down the road or around a track it would be a lot quicker.
Why isn't the Mazdaspeed 3 in this mix? I think that is a great little wagon for the money. I'm holding out for the STI personally, but I considered the MS3 for a little while.
Remeber DSG dual clutch's can not handle over 300 hp. You need to send it to HPR for like 4 or 5 k to go past that point. Also DSG shifting is a little clunky if it not at the right temp. Lanch Control is not the US when you get it from the dealership you need to have them reflash the ECU to you it. Also they just had a recall on all 2006+ GTI for the Headlights not meeting safty standers. But i love my 07 GTI
Launch Control is now standard. It was early cars that need the upgrade. I say GTI FTW big time! The reliability is way up and they are nice cars all around. Plenty of space, tunability and a great driving feel. I've autocrossed a few and they are very tossable. The powerband on the GTI is way more usable day-to-day. Plus the GTI has won every comparision between the two since they came out.
Having owned both Hondas and a VW (click the link in my sig), I will say get the Honda and stay FAR AWAY from any VW/ Audi ( they are made at the same place = it's the same chassis). I had more issues with my 2002 GTi 337 than all the cars I've ever owned combined. People I knew at the time did as well. Hell one girl had a new R32 and it needed a new engine after less than a year of ownership. VW/ Audi = poop.
GTI is awesome!, but not worth it... VW/Audi reliability is shitty. I've had several of them and every time I spent more in repairs than I ever imagined. Honda sucks ass... I'd vote for NEITHER. Subaru has been a GREAT compromise. I recommend them to everyone. Don't buy a VW. it's not worth it. I love them, but it really isn't. I could pay for my STi with the repairs of a VW...
Try to persuade him to drive an 08 WRX. It's the same idea as the MS3 just with AWD, subaru reliability, and that good ol' rally car spirit. It's also around the same price, and I found it generally more fun that the MS3. It's more go-kartish and athletic than the MS3, which feels larger to me when you're tossing it about. Just from my brief impression from the little I've driven it. Also the subie is probably more tunable. You have to get the right appearance package on the 08 or it tends to look a little ordinary. The factory 'aero' kit with the lower front lip, side skirts, and fake diffuser really do a lot for the looks. Otherwise, GTi ftw.
Wow, your assessment of the MS3 V. WRX is the exact opposite of the general opinion. I haven't driven the 08's yet, but, again, they are generally considered softer and less sporting than the last generation. Not bagging on you, just, now I really can't wait for the subbie Challenge so I can try the 08s for myself! As for the Subbie being more tunable, with just some bolt ons, the MS3, as mentioned earlier in the thread, is cranking out 300/280...
I'd like to be the first to say that you're welcome to take my car for a spin at the Subie challenge. I honestly think you'll like it. Also, Subiesport got an 08 WRX on a dyno and was able to tune it for approx. 280hp and 300 ft/lb tq with completely stock parts. The new WRX engine is essentially a detuned Legacy motor, so it has room for about 2-3 more pounds of boost without breaking a sweat, which seems like it would be infinitely tunable. Maybe it was the FWD, but I thought the mazdas felt big, clunky, and on the numb side. But that was just a dealer test drive. So I might be talking outta my ass. Also the seats in the Mazda suck.:coolugh:
Cool, thanks for the invite! I believe, unless plans have changed, that there are going to be a few 08's there to test drive, provided by Subaru...