Okay I've pretty much finalized my final build of the WRX. Since I no longer drag race the car and simply want to drive it and enjoy everything it has to offer, I am no longer pursuing a PPG transmission. I will definately get myself a 6MT and it will hopefully be an 07 transmission. If not then definately an 06. Anyways I have a complete 2005 STi longblock at home with all the AVCS components. Here's the mod list. 2005 EJ257 Longblock with AVCS Element Tuning Hydra (to control AVCS) Element Tuning HydraMist (complete meth injection with failsafes that talk to the Hydra) Perrin FMIC 820cc injectors Grimmspeed Phenolic spacers Custom Uppipe with EWG Custom Downpipe with EWG 3" Greddy Evo2 Catback FPGreen turbo - it will be rotated Custom intake Contemplating rotating the manifold if I can keep the AC which has been done TurboSmart E-boost 2 Either Tial or TurboSmart EWG TurboSmart MegaSonic BOV Walbro 342 fuel pump TGV deletes Some of this stuff I already have. I am shooting for 450+ Hp and tq on meth injection and with the Green being rotated I hope it will spool faster than most Greens do. We'll see. Now to save up and get that tranny done with the R180 rear end! What's your opinions?
Rotating the green is a waste of time, stock location turbos suck because they are designed around fitting where the stock turbo does. Which means the housings get squished, which is why they never make the same power as Garret GT series turbos. If you want to keep the green then leave it in the stock location
Yeah, I'd say leave the Green in the stock location as well. And I'd consider ditching the boost controller too. Let the Hydra do the work since it has IAT compensation. Other than that, It looks like your have a nice build.
Yeah, ditch the turbosmart stuff, I've never seen any of it last or work right. Everyone uses Tial for a reason and the hydra controlling boost is part of the failsafe system for the meth.
TurboSmart stuff works fine.....why do you think Phil at Element Tuning uses their stuff on all of his cars? The Hydra works better with the TurboSmart Boost controller. IAT isn't my concern as I have meth injection. I hate the IAT compensation on my car now.
LOL...no it doesn't work fine. Phil uses that crap because they make huge margins on it when they sell it.
Every TurboSmart product we've put on any car at the shop has outlasted and outperformed most all the other available pieces. I haven't gotten any of it and that's not final anyways. I will most likely be getting a Tial EWG since it comes with the kit I'm looking at. Now whether I need a boost controller or not is to be determined.
Ill leave you at this with the turbosmart stuff....go look at real race cars, not the b.s. import racer magazine crap, see what BOV and Wastegates they run, its almost always a TIAL.
I see your point. On another note.....price wise it's about the same to just go GT30R however I'm concerned with the laggyness of it. Zach's GT30R was HORRIBLE with spool but it was a .84 housing. I'm thinking maybe a 0.63 housing. I have talked with Matt about his custom GT30R with the .48 housing but I never got to ride in that car so I'm not too sure how the spool is and how mid-range and top end was with that turbo.
The Hydra doesn't work better with a standalone boost controller. IAT compensation should be a concern of yours. The meth will cool intake air charge in the hot months, but your car will over shoot the boost targets in the cold months which is very bad for your car. That's where the IAT compensation for WG duty cycle comes in. You can do what you want, I'm just trying to help you since I have been there and done that with a standalone boost controller.
Oh I'm not argueing that at all and I highly respect your opinion. I'm just trying to understand why Phil is using a standalone boost controller on his cars. I pay attention to Phil's customer setups because he is the one that knows the Hydra inside out more than 'anyone'. Obviously he has a reason for doing so...I may email him to see why.
I'm sure the standalone works fine on his car due to the fact that he can make his own tuning adjustments when needed. I know that he suggests the Eboost when using a standalone BC. The discussions that I had with him, he suggested that I use the Hydra boost control along with a Prodrive EBCS. That's what I did. Siegel seems to like tuning the gear specific boost control set up on the Hydra. I think that a standalone would give you more flexability when running multiple boost maps. Me, myself, I just run one...all high boost!
I toying with tuning the Hydra myself. However I dunno if I trust myself cause I may get a little too aggresive and make a serious mistake. I will be running various maps....pump gas for road trips, meth inj for my daily, and C16 for when I want to put a hurting on someone and then finally C16 with maybe a shot of NOS. F-it I'm going GT30R rotated with a .63 housing.
Hmmm....dunno about that .63 housing. You might regret that. Nothing wrong with with the 30r decision though. I think you will be fine with a Green too.
Well Matt and Siegel swear by the .48 housing with a larger compressor cover. I swear this is like the hardest decision ever.
I feel your pain. Been there and done that. I finally just went big. It's the best decision that I personally could have made. I love my setup. Just talk to as many people as you can with similar set ups that you want. Get as many rides as you can. The rides will tell the story.
Yeah I got a ride in yours a while back but it wasn't a worthy one. You still had the DTEC and that horrible boost issue so Scott really couldn't get into it and show it's true potential.
Its not as simple as just buying a gt30r there are about 20 diffrent combinations that you could use. Mine made 470whp at 27lbs and could have easily made 500whp. I'm going to say the .48 housing is not what was choking the power up top. Also the car had 18lbs at 3600 rpms, thats pretty quick spool, not much slower than a green if I'm not mistaken. If you want to order a turbo like mine you can email Mike at Batlground and he can set you up with one, there's not really a part number for it you kind of have to get precision to put it together for you. Matt Edit, Question, do you really know enough to tune you're own standalone. I've tuned a couple of my own cars but I had Dan at BG as a teacher. Its not as easy as people think it is. Just make sure you are prepared to pop a motor. Its very easy to make a very costly mistake.
I'm probably going to take a class with Phil Grabow on tuning or possibly just let him tune it since he is on the way to NY which I will be driving up there once or twice a year. I'd love to let Siegel take a shot at it but I'd rather have someone that knows the Hydra inside/out. Now Matt was the 470 hp on race gas or was that the meth tune? What was choking the car up top? I want to prevent that as much as possible but I also know it's a tradeoff. You either get spool or top end power. Since my car is a daily I'd rather have the spool and low end which from what you tell me your turbo setup had it. Siegel swears by it also.
First Phil didn't design the hydra, he just handles the Subaru distribution, there is nothing that makes the hydra anymore difficult to tune than any other racing standalone and I would even go so far as to say that there are a couple of people in Atlanta that I would sure rather have tune my car. 470whp was on Meth and 91 octane pump. On straight Race Gas it would have been over 500whp.
Well explain why you don't like Phil's tuning? I've also mentioned it to Doug but I dunno if he is willing to tune my car given our past. There was a big misunderstanding and I got very impatient and couldn't get in touch with them, when in reality Doug simply needed to spend a little more time on the car. That scenario was purely my fault. Scott is a great tuner and very good but I like my car to be a little aggresive.
Aggresive, you have the stock ej20 record, it doesn't really get much more aggresive. I'm not going to get into the Tuner debate, its not worth it anymore. I like for Dan to tune my stand alone ecus, he has already proven on Jeremys car that he knows how to make power with a subaru. Dan will obviously be tuning my One Lap car with the hydra. I know of 4 oe 5 other hydra cars he has done and none of them had problems. The first Hydra car he did made 540whp on a bone stock motor. He already has plans for a GT35R on his daily and I'm pretty sure he said he was going to put a hydra on it.
There's a lot of things some people don't know. You think that ej20 record was on my regular tune? Well it was but it was also with me altering the WG tubing from the Perrin EBCS. You see I run daily with no pill. Add in the VF34 pill and wham! 28 psi. It's not holding 28psi but it spikes it up where that I am over 22 psi from 3500 rpms to 4800. Then the taper kicks in and it's back to normal. Yes that's my secret.....I've put the wideband on it and the AFR never exceeds 10.6-10.7. No knock and the deltadash shows no timing pull. I'm surprised I haven't popped that engine yet but it's not like I 'stay' into it all the time.
The Hydra can be more difficult to tune until you learn the maps. The maps aren't specifically labeled like they are on other forms of EM. Everything is a PWN # and you have to know which PWN map means what. Phil does just a little more than distributes the Subaru Hydras. And he knows them far better than most anyone else. I have full confidence in Scott's Hydra tuning abilities. What he might not have know about Hydra tuning 4-5 months ago, he knows now after all of the Hydra revision issues that he's fought on my car. I've watched him tune some on my car recently, and he knows the Hydra maps inside and out. And the nice thing about Scott is, if he has a problem or question, he will call Phil or Hydra EMS to get help on finding a fix. Some tuners can't put their ego aside long enough to do that. Just my 2 cents...
Okay I was told that Scott and Hydra don't get along at all by several people and to be honest that scared the crap out of me. I'm still unsure and I'll make my decision when the time is right. Right now it's purely research and prepping. Scott is a great tuner and very reliable but he does tend to not want to push the envelope if a customer asks him to. However I can't blame him as he has a reputation as an excellent tuner to hold up. That being said it'll be down to whether Scott will make my car boost like I want it to and so forth. It want the boost to hit hard.....forget this smoothness. On my car right now that was what I wanted....smooth and reliable. Now that I have a real engine and will have a real tranny.......it's gonna have to be tuned the way I want it tuned and that is making power and planting your butt in the seat HARD! Still reliable but a little aggressive. It's hard to explain.....
Well, as of right now, he has tuned my car to about 1.8 bar (just over 26psi) and we are looking to end up in the 28-29psi range. That's fairly aggressive. And this is on stock internals. He just don't want you to go out and blow your motor and then try to trash talk him for it. He knows, that if I blow a motor, I'll get another and have him push the envelope again. The thing I like about his tuning, is his 28psi tune will be the safest 28psi tune that there is. If the motor blows, 9 times out of 10 it will be because the motor can't handle it and not something wrong in the tuning. He pays so much attention to detail. And I will say this, if Scott couldn't tune my Hydra, it would go to Phil without a doubt.
I haven't had any issue with any of Scott's tunes on my car. I gripe about jerkyness but it's 100% because of replaced pumps and controllers on the SMC kit. Every pump and controller works different to some degree therefore affecting the tune somewhat. I'll just have to sit down with Scott and have a nice long talk with him and explain to him 'EXACTLY' what I want. He has told me he has no problem doing that. He is the most professional tuner I've ever had the pleasure of knowing and at the same time one of the best friends you can ask for.