I havent seen too many guys in the subaru community really embrace nitrous with the exception of the large HP builds. It seems safe and is proven on other platforms but subaru guys hate it and would much rather run meth kits despite their inevitable pump failures. Why is this? Doug had posted up a dyno of a stock turbo STI running nitrous that had amazing numbers, definately comparable to a meth-injected setup. My understanding is that meth injection adds knock protection, similar to higher octane fuel, whereas nitrous adds more oxygen to the mix, akin to adding more boost. It's always seemed like a good solution for if you want a little bit more juice on the weekends without sacrificing daily driveability or spool. I'd definately get separate nitrous map and likely a wet kit over a dry being that its a turbo application. I remember EJrex had a setup, if you'd like to discuss what you're running. I think a nice setup would need to include a WOT switch and bottle warmer at the minimum just to ensure consistency. Discuss, and let me say it first. "only babies drink from bottles"
i was thinkin about this also a little while ago when i saw doug's dynoplot...why doesnt nitrous get any love?!
I think there's probably a bit of a stigma against nitrous, since a lot people see it as a "ricer" mod. Call me a n00b...but have you ever seen the fast and the furious? "Mah civic got NAWZ Bro!!!"
I've as well wondered why you don't see many Subies running nitrous. I think it may just come down to horror stories about people blowing their engine with it. Although under a proper set-up I don't see how this could be a problem. Slightly off topic, but why in God's name can no one make a meth pump that works indefinitely!? I think it's absolutely ridiculous and somewhat offensive that a company would release a product that doesn't seem to last more than a few months.
I believe Aquamist's pump is one of the best and have yet to have any issues that I am aware of. Mostly it is the low cost people are expecting a methanol kit to be delivered and maybe the corrosive nature of methanol is hard on seals. I certainly wouldn't mind shelling out a bit more for a pump that is guaranteed to work for years without any problems. I never played around with nitrous, it is illegal in GA if the lines are hooked up and it is inconvenient to refill. I don't really see any downsides to it if used properly (other than how much a stock block can take constantly) so report back with your findings man
I've run NOS on my past vehicles but it really isn't very convienient unless you spend big bucks and do it right with a remote bottle opener, heater, and maybe even an electronic control module. I used to use a Jacob's Nitrous Mastermind, and I was very happy with the tuning it allowed of the NOS. The advantage I see with Meth is the longer times between refills and ease of refills. That being said, if I didn't have a wagon, I would already have NOS on my car. The cooling properties alone of the NOS to the intake charge can make a huge difference on a forced induction car.
Aside from the obvious, I have almost zero knowledge about nitrous. I'm interested in seeing how this thread develops.
Nitrous is a PITA. Nitrous bottles lose pressure and even with a bottle heater the amount of nitrous injected is variable. And nitrous has just as many problems (frozen/failed solenoids anyone?) Plus the refilling and stealth issues... When they come out with a wet nitrous system controller that compensates for bottle pressure I'll consider nitrous again. maybe. Methanol can be injected at a fixed pressure ensuring proper fuel ratios. Plus I can refill at home. FTW.
They have bottle heaters that maintain bottle pressure so that the nitrous stays within 5-10psi range. I love nitrous, the biggest draw back is having to refill the bottle and the fact that a really good system is very expensive. It really should be mentioned in the same breath as methanol though they are two totally different things. You primarily use methanol for the added octane, the cooling is a nice side benefit. Nitrous you are primarily using for the added Oxygen molecules. The cooling is also a side benefit. If you can cram more air into the cylinder you can make more power. Now the super duper gangster shiat is happens when you use the methanol as the fuel for your wet nitrous system, you can get all the benefits of both that way. I might know a guy who is doing something like that but its not on a Subaru, I'll ask him to take some pics of his setup. Matt
Last i checked we dont own EVOs. SUBARU is actually EXTREMELY reasonable with warranty and modifications....
:rofl: That is the biggest reason I don't like EVOs... Mitsubishi of America. Oh and they are fugly. I always hear of V8s and Hondas running Nitrous, but do other Turbo cars use Nitrous more than Subies?
NItrous has a bad rap y0! To do it RIGHT, it costs ALOT. Most of the bad press is guys buying $400 dry ZEX kits and spraying 100 shots on their 100whp Tiburon. If you do it right, it can be just as reliable as a bigger turbo. Problem is that requires at least a $1500 investment IMO EGT Gauge Nitrous Pressure Gauge Wideband Wet Kit Bottle Warmer Extensive Tuning Nitrous is a tad more dangerous because of the INSTANT power that comes with it. 100 shot is an instant 100whp usually. if you have a spike or drop in afr, in could be game over. theres not much room for error. Thats the only thing left i want to run that i never have. Nitrous intrigues me, ive owned every other kind of FI. Perhaps when i get my Vette Back to the original question: Methanol is cheap, and lots of people over the last 2-3 years have been fooled into running it. Its cheap ($400-500) and it requires you to push a button for more power (much like nitrous). However IMO methanol is more gradual because your still relying on your turbo to provide the power gains. Methanol itself doesnt add power, the ability to run more boost is what adds the power. All methanol does is keep you from spending $11 a gallon on C16. There is no difference on most of your setups. From what i have seen, ill never run methanol, i think its a joke and a bandwagon that many people are on right now. Ive seen too many pump failures, eaten bearings, blown up engines, etc to reccomend it. Id much rather replace an 02 Sensor (C16) than thin my oil out and spin a bearing with Methanol. cheers
Methanol injection usually is automatic....there is no push of a button. Most kits have a MAP sensor that detects a certain boost level to start spraying and a certain level to go full blast. Methanol doesn't thin out your oil any more than gasoline....if it is thinning out your oil then you have bigger issues to chase. I will argue that with every fiber of my being. Yes the pumps are an issue but that issue seems to be fixed now thanks LARGELY to myself willing to help a vendor out and to do the right thing.
That is 100% not true. You need to do more research on the nature of the chemical before you make bold claims like that.
Like I said.....if you are getting a bit of methanol on a 'street' car with no track racing in your oil you have bigger issues because the rings on your pistons aren't doing their job. I hav 70K miles of HARD methanol use on my car and I change my oil every 5K miles. The proof is right there. I also ran 3000 miles on pump gas only and sent the oil for analysis. Then ran 3K miles on meth use and sent the oil off for analysis. Guess what.....there was no difference at all.
Well one day my WRX will have nitrous, probably just something small like a 50-75 shot. If a 75 shot is really 75whp then that would put me up in 20G territory on the stock turbo (keep in mind this is a 20G on a 2.0, not a 2.5). Replacement twin scroll turbos are expensive as hell and the only problem with the stock one is that it wont flow enough air, simple solution, add more air aka nitrous. I love the spool on this turbo but the topend is seriously lacking, I dont know if its very safe to spray nitrous all the way to redline though. I'd assume so with proper tuning. I've had this discussion with many people in real life, I'd much rather have a nitrous map to run when i want the juice and a street map for the rest of the time rather than run meth injection and have to keep the toxic stuff around my house all of the time. Matt, I like the methanol and nitrous idea, there's one guy on nasioc that has done that, I think he started with a base map with no meth and tuned for pump and nitrous and then slowly began adding meth into the mix. Seems like a pain to tune but gains would be worth it, 3 power adders on one car (turbo, nitrous, meth), hell add race gas to the top of that and you'd have a beast. I dont see nitrous being very effective anywhere else than a drag strip, but even if you're spraying at the strip thats still less power that you launch your car with which means less likely to break stuff. But hell, considering some big turbos can strip WRX gears the instant they spool, I'd imagine nitrous would do the same.
Heh anything can strip WRX gears. Nitrous can be fun but like many say...it's exspensive to do right and cost a lot for refills. Also you don't get nearly as many pulls with it too. Why not ditch the twinscroll and slap a Green on that car? I've seen a Ver8 engine 'almost' break 10's on a Green.....rpms FTW!
/threadjack Oh trust me the thought's already gone through my mind to part out the twinscroll setup and then use that money to pay for a stock mount turbo, I've still got the stock header, catless UP, and turboback. I'd just need a new clutch and injectors. I probably will ditch the twinscroll sometime or another since its taken forever for anybody other than HKS to make a worthwhile bolt on turbo. Theirs is essentially a twin-scroll 30R, and although not a true twin-inlet turbo it still spools faster than a normal 30R. There will be another thread when the time comes asking for opinions on a TD06-18G-8cm^2 vs a TD05-20G-7cm^2; I dont know which would work out better, the big 18G or small 20G. If you've got any insight, shoot me a PM but this is all speculation unless somebody just feels like giving me $1000 up front for my twinscroll kit w/turbo, dp, header and get the hardware later when I get a new turbo. /threadjack, continue talking about laughing gas please.
I have installed several "base model" nitrous kits (Mustangs, Integras, an Escort). I ran a 100shot wet kit on my Integra and used about a bottle a week at times for about 50k miles until I sold it w/175k miles on it. I think its rep comes from "redneck tuning" blowing pistons through oil pans. It IS like an on/off switch and not good for anything other than drag strip use unless an expensive progressive controller is used. The last thing you want in a hard corner is a VERY sudden 100 horsepower. The torque gain is even greater than the HP gain in my experience. As far as losing bottle pressure, w/ my set up it wasn't too critical, it just ran super rich and didn't punch as hard so you knew it was time to refill the bottle. That is bad news for catted cars. It also seems to be more auto trans friendly due to the sudden torque fluctuation b/n shifts in the manual trans cars, again, more for drag use. Who wants an auto trans on a track. I have considered putting it on my WRX a couple of times b/c it would be nice to have a little extra but haven't done it yet b/c there are so many other things to do that are beneficial and the nos was always put on the back burner.
You can launch the car on the bottle, thats really what the kit is going to be for on the Bugeye. Theres also no reason you can't run nitrous on a road course, I'll be running it on One Lap this year in whatever car I end up taking. Matt
because autos have consistent shifts. ESX uses them all the time on drag strip as do other companies. 4eats are very nice on the drag strip.. 4 gears instead of 5 or 6..
Its not really the consistent shifts as much as it is the constant power transfer, with an auto it constantly puts power to the track the whole way down, even during shifts.
Are you launching just to help spool the turbo? Seems like it would make it harder to hook with nitrous, but then again I've got no official drag experience. I'd probably run it normal through 1st gear and then spray the rest of the way down the track. Care to elaborate on your setup for OLA with regards to nitrous?