Some help would be appreciated

The following story is a bit of long one, but please bear with me as I would welcome any advice or comments. And I want to apologize to the mods beforehand if this is posted in the wrong section. I thought about posting this in the Dealership Reviews section, but I'm not sure it would be seen by many people (much less qualify for that section). Also, I am sorry that this happens to be my first post here, as I was hoping it would be on a positive note rather than the bitter one that will follow.

On May 2nd, 2007 I purchased my 05 PSM WRX from Subaru of Gwinnett. It was still under factory warranty and looked to be in pristine condition. This was assured to me as well by several staff members at the dealership. As you can imagine, I was thrilled with the car. It was (and still is) a joy to drive. And I thought that I had finally found a dealership that were true to their word and not fulfilling the stereotype of being a shady establishment to do business with. In almost 1 year of ownership I have had over 10k trouble free miles.

Everything sounds rosy so far right? Sadly, it wasn't meant to be. Fast forward to yesterday (April 8th). Due to wanting to expand my business and not driving the car much, I made the very hard descision of parting with my beloved WRX. I took her to carmax to see what they would offer me. I probably wouldn't take their offer, but I wanted to know what it was regardless. So I'm chatting with an employee there when the appraisal comes back. A look of worry comes across my face when I see the what their offer was. "So low?" I thought. Surely it is worth more than the measly offer they extended. Then I read on and saw some disheartening things: left fender repainted, hood and both fenders not original to vehicle, frame damage (FRAME DAMAGE!?). I said that they must be mistaken, I had bought the car from SOG and was ASSURED that the vehicle had never been in an accident. Being the smart (or at the time I had liked to think so) consumer that I was, obviously I had ran the carfax and everything had come back just fine. However, when I was shown what was done to repair my car it was painfully obvious. I felt like I was just punched in the stomach and wanted to throw up.

There are only two possible explanations for why I wasn't told about the damage by SOG: fraud or gross incompetence. If a carmax employee could spot the considerable damage that had been repaired in 15 minutes, how is it that certified Subaru technicians failed to notice it. I'll give you a hint- not very likely. Had they disclosed this information to me I a) more than likely would not have purchased the vehicle at all, and b) I CERTAINLY would not have purchased it at the price I did. It's looking like they used deceptive business practices to make a profit off of me (ie. FRAUD.)

So today I take my car to SOG and ask for an explanation to what happened. At first I ask to speak to the GM. He, of course, is not there. So I speak to the used car manager (whose name I regrettably forget). Now, I am not here to speak badly of the aforementioned gentleman, as he was at least giving some attempt at being accommodating. However, the anwsers to my questions were laughable at certain times (at least it would have been had I not been so upset at the situation.) He explains that the dealership takes the used car trade-ins at face value and doesn't check up body damage at all after a carfax is run. Personally, it is dumbfounding to me that a dealership doesn't inspect a car more closely than a simple carfax report. Keep in mind that the carmax employee spotted the damage in 15 minutes. So I counter with "so should I be forced to bring a certified mechanic with me to inspect the cars on your lot?" His response? "Well, those guys are out there for a reason." Utterly amazing! He then quoted me the "buyer beware" sheet that I had signed. Well, it is looking like that might be the new mantra at SOG. It was implied that it was my fault for them selling me a car that had been in a serious accident. He then stated that the saleman who sold me my car was not with them anymore. And then stated that that might be the reason he wasn't with them anymore. However, he quickly caught himself and denied knowing the reason he wasn't with the company any longer. He was not rude or condescending throughout this, as again this is about what he said and not his demeanor when dealing with me (which was courteous.)

So, I am at a loss right now. I tried to make an appointment with the GM but his secretary is out of town until next week (gee, that's convenient). So I left them my number to give to Steve (the GM). He hasn't called. I just don't know what to do at this point. I am basically out thousands of dollars now because of the damage that I will have to disclose when selling the car now; damage I never knew was there in the first place. I suppose I could have just not said anything to the next potential buyer. But that is dishonest and unscrupulous behavior. It's the kind of things dealerships do to people when they let their gaurd down...

So please, does anyone have any advice for me? At this point I'm all ears. Thank you for reading

-Josh

 

Lawyer. What they did is illegal.

 

I second that.

Sorry to hear it man. It's like finding out your girlfriend had sex with your best friend 2 years ago or something.

 

shit that sucks big time, yeah I would get a lawyer but with that buyer beware you signed (depending on what it states) you may be fawked. Sorry bro, I wish you the best of luck.

 

Snap! I know that car...I think. Is it lowered on aftermarket springs?

 

He said the car was certified pre owned. which means its gone though a inspection. thats something that they needed to tell him. I think hes safe.

 

Yes, it's lowered on Perrin springs I believe. I would ask you if you knew about the damage done to the car but I know you probably are not at liberty to say.

No, it was not certified pre-owned unfortunately. It was still under the factory warranty when I bought it (just barely) and I also bought and extended warranty through Subaru.

 

He doenst work there anymore

 

At the risk of upsetting the 800 pound gorrila in the room (I see you are a mod), how does my situation "just kinda suck?" I would say it's a little more than that. Can I prove without a doubt that they knew? Probably not. But what does that say about the dealership to sell me the car in this condition? As I said before, the only two choices in my eyes are #1-fraud or #2-incompetence. Let's assume for a second that they really didn't know that the car was in a major accident; does that speak well for them as a dealership to not even glance at the engine bay of a car that was supposedly in pristine condition? You would hope they would not charge a premium price on a car that wasn't inspected correctly. Again, I'm not trying to flame you. I'm just trying to explain my reasoning. Please don't ban me :sx:

Oops, sorry about that. Thanks for the correction man. You can tell I haven't been here in awhile.

 

Sucks man. I think yr right about them taking poor trade-ins. I was there for service One time and was talking to someone there about a WRX in their lot that was taken as a trade-in that had a blown motor..... I'm pretty sure the previous sentence is run-on; sorry little buzzed.

 

imho, dont buy a car from sog.

 

Talk to a lawyer. See if you have a case. Also talk to the Better Business Bureau.

Sorry to hear about this

 

I see you as having three options..

1. try to fight and lose, as you bought a used car with nothing other than the factory warranty. GA laws don't do shit for used cars. If it was certified pre-owned, you might have a leg to stand on.
2. sell the car private party, and pass the problem on to someone else. Again, while quite unethical, GA laws don't do shit for used cars.
3. bend over and accept Carmax's offer, leaving with a hurting ass, but a cleaner conscience of not passing on a messed up car.

The choice is yours, choose wisely...

 

There seem to be a few people advocating this. While it is still an option that I may pursue, unfortunately I really don't have the money to hire a lawyer and deal with all of the fees involved in that. But again, still an option that I could explore.

A big thank you to everyone that responded to the thread with advice and well wishes! I continue to be impressed the with the members of this site. :bigthumb:

Number 1 is certainly an option. However, as per my previous post, I don't really have the cash right now to do this. But if need be I can certainly get some.

Number 2 is not something that I would do under any circumstances. I'm afraid that sometimes I'm a little too honest. I couldn't in good conscience pass that off to someone else. I have to look at myself in the mirror every morning.

Number 3 could be the inevitable "solution" to this problem. But I'm not ready to concede to that yet.

 

Good Luck on getting this straightened out Josh...BrianGT basically summed it up..unfortunately GA is like that...


Mark

 

As for #2, you could disclose the issues, and if the price is right, then you probably could sell it. How bad is the frame damage? Obviously, you couldn't sell it on this forum without disclosing the issues.

As for #1, you should still complain to the BBB and Subaru. You could even start a blog about it and try to get a bunch of hits and publicity. If they see that this is causing them bad advertising, and/or receive a lot of calls from disgruntled people about this issue, they might do something to get rid of it. Otherwise, I really don't think they legally have to do anything at all.

 

The car drives really really well. So whatever damage there was I am assuming that it was fixed correctly. But I can't know for certain unless I take it to a body shop. Also, selling the car without disclosing that it had been in accident is a non-issue. After all, how could I complain about SOG if I turn around and do the same thing. It's just not the right thing to do. But the problem is when I say anything regarding frame damage it automatically turns 99% of buyers away.

I will certainly be contacting the BBB and SOA about this. Even if it doesn't accomplish much at least it is on record. And I will be telling everyone I know about this issue. I might post this up on NASIOC and clubWRX as well. Thank you for your input man!

 

That too, they cant sell a car thats unsafe

And didnt they just pass new laws protecting the consumer from used car BS?

 

Here is an example of how you can get good publicity on the internet when a dealer does you wrong:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127993
over 1,000,000 views....

 

Are you 100% sure that Carmax was trying to rip you off? Just throwing it out there. I never really liked SOG either hence why I go to Classic

 

No worries; I was not planning on doing any of that until I get in touch with the GM. Well, if I can anyway.

It's funny you should mention that as I followed that thread since it was on page 15. It truly is amazing what complete strangers can do for each other with the right motivation!

I seriously doubt they were trying to rip me off. In fact, they pretty much knew right away that I would not be accepting their offer. Even as I first walked in the dealership they were suggesting that I could get more money by selling it privately. I was actually pretty impressed to be honest. I have heard some negative things in the past.

 

i'm pretty confident there was more than simple negligence involved. I've talked to people at SoG a handful of times and they have told me that any vehicles that have been in an accident when traded in, they send off to auction and will not sell on the lot. I'm sure this is violated often though, even if it is a true statement. I'm pretty sure more than one person knew of the issues with the car as there is no way a tech had never been under there to look at it.. probably just passed it off as fine. I just can't see it being just negligence.... but do I think you have a case with the information you've provided? not really. If you can afford to keep it and you like the car, seems like the best choice unless you want to bite the bullet and take it to carmax. Maybe try a different location they might offer you more. Not sure how they are linked

 

Even tho it didnt go thru the certified pre owned program, I've seen the cars that come thru it...it means NOTHING. That 05 WRX I got a while back that the engine toasted itself 1000 miles after the customer got it used was a 'certified pre owned car' and it was abused the crap out of by the previous owner. If they had really taken the time to certify it the correct way, they would have noticed low oil pressure and excessive metal in the oil.

Ah that one. I did not inspect this car myself, someone else got it. Otherwise, it looked clean, but I never looked at it closely.

If nothing shows on carmax, IIRC, the dealer is not obligated to disclose anything. Otherwise, I would defiantly check with the law and have a good chat with SOG. They should at least be able to buy it back from you at a good price if no other place will due to the damage.

Again, you really need to dig into the laws about this kind of matter before blowing it up. It does suck, but if there's fine print protecting the dealer then its your loss. If the dealer did miss something and they did not disclose it like they should have, then you have room for recourse.

Best of luck!

Feel free to PM me anytime.

 

It is actually pretty sad that CarFax has created this false sense of security for people. CarFax is just making money, they aren't really protecting people. It is pretty easy to get a car repaired without the information being reported to CarFax.

SOG needs to buy this car back from you at a reasonable amount (low book at least).
Good Luck to you.

 

Well a somewhat cleaner conscience... Carmax is not required by law to disclose an "accident car" if it's not in the CarFax/Insurance report. They have plausible deniability for non-documented accidents.

The moral? GA is NOT a pro-consumer state. At ALL.

Which speaks to the OP's problem. No documentation of accident, no case. Plausible deniability all the way through the court system.

 

I do believe this will be the MAJOR hold up with the situation at hand.

 

That's not to say he shouldn't fight it though. he could just show them a screen shot of this thread and the number of page views. Goodwill or the desire to continue to do business with this board's users might come through.

 

if it was fixed by the owner at the time of the wreck, there would be no salvage title issue.

 

I agree about carfax. My s2000 has 6 colors of yellow paint underneath and has been hit on all sides yet has only one minor damage report in carfax. This was news to me when i discovered it.

 

^dude, it must have been a m4d tyt3 drift c4r y0!

 

If you're serious about pursuing this with other parties, I say this is a time to spend a little bit of $$ and get your documentation ducks in a row.

1: get Carmax to put in writing the damage they evaluated(complete with the tech's name, etc) and have them give you a proposed estimate offer if the damage was NOT there to compare it with.

2: having done that, get another shop to inspect it and writeup if it looks like it has been repaired (if so, then repaired correctly). And also how much such a repair would cost if they did it.

 

as another poster mentioned, I would verify whether there was actually frame damage by taking it to a competent body shop (even though the reparied panels are obvious, i don't know about how obvious frame damage would be, though I could certainly be wrong).

also, when I've done carfaxes, they talk about this "buyback guarantee," though I have no idea what that entails. I suspect it probably has a bunch of loopholes. it probably won't help you, but may be worth looking into.

-jimmy

 

I would have the car checked out thoroughly by a trusted body shop. I am sure someone here can recommend a shop. If it is good, keep it and enjoy it, they are great cars. If there are problems with it have it fixed under warranty. I believe many warranties allow you to get the car done at the shop of your choice. You purchased an extended warranty so put it to use.

It completely sucks what happened, but unfortunately in this day and age life is perilous and full of pitfalls and sometimes if you come across a bad situation you have to roll with the punches and make the best of it. I would personally not sell the car and take a huge hit it defeats the purpose. Exploit your opportunities and use the shit out of that warranty

 

Well, it has been a strange day today. Around 10am this morning I see I have a message from SOG stating they "want to work with me in anyway they can." This is pretty much the opposite of what I heard yesterday (which was in essence "there is really nothing we can do.") So I give Gary a call back and he offers to buy the car back from me at a fair price. I wasn't expecting that at all. At around 4:45pm I drive up there, sign some papers and that was that. He said the check will be there sometime Thursday or Friday.

I want to thank SOG (and Gary in particular) for doing the right thing. I probably had no legal leg to stand on if I were to get a lawyer involved. But they decided to come through anyway. I have no idea whether this thread had any bearing on them changing their mind so fast, as neither I nor Gary made any mention to it. Therefore, it is not for me to say whether it had any influence on their decision (or if they have even seen it.) But the bottom line here is that they did indeed buy the car back from me when they didn't legally have to.

I want to also thank everyone who has replied to this thread. Also a big thanks to Alex who I've talked to on the phone about this (thanks again man!) Everyone here has been a great help and I really appreciate it. Even though I don't own the WRX anymore I think I will stick around anyways. There are some good people on this board.

Now I just hope I get my check...

 

Hmmmph I'll be damned!

 

well thats interesting, and very good for you!....maybe they already have a buyer for it! the 05 WRX's are selling like hotcakes. I had one come thru the dealer a few weeks ago that sold for a TREMENDOUS amount over retail price. We only had it for a few days.

Meanwhile the market is still flooded with higher mileage 2004 PSM WRX sedans.

 

Good for you. Glad to hear SOG did the right thing.

 

L.I.B.





M.R. Ducks

 

Thats great news! I kinda thought you were just screwed.... Good to hear SOG stepped up....

 

Too bad no one wants a 4eat :wtc:

 

Yeah...my car came to its 3rd owner (myself being the fourth) with a ruined transmission and tons of underbody damage, which he claims they never told him about. This seems to be commonplace with SoG's sales - but I still love their parts department

 

^Your car didnt have underbody damage when I last worked on it....aka when SOG took it in on trade. However, 2nd was SUPER lots better when you got it vs when I got it the first time it had the problem.

 

outstanding... glad to hear they come through for the OP

 

I must say I am impressed. Both SOG's actions and the outpouring of support by this community has only reinforced to me how good Subaru people are. I am glad things worked out for the OP.