I am looking to get front camber plates in the future, however I'm not sure if I need to adjust caster as well. Currently I am able to get -1.1 camber in the front (both sides) and I have 0.5 degrees of cross caster. I know I would like to get more negative camber up front, bit I don't know if I really need to be able to adjust caster also. The question is this: is it worth it to get plates that adjust caster just to get rid of (balance out) 0.5 degrees of cross caster?
You are going to get lots of OPINIONS on this. On my track car I'm far more concerned about camber than caster. If you decide that you really want caster adjustment as well, then you can rotate just about any camber plate so that it moves on the diagonal that will get you both. If you want to call the shop on Monday Ill be happy to discuss it with you. I've got the Cusco and the Racecomp Engineering ones in stock, Ill also have the DMS ones which are the same as the PDE in a few days. Matt Ninja Edit The PDE Plates are what I run on the racecar.
If you are looking for a good STS setup along with something good for the street and wont wear out your tires... Answer some questions first: 1. Are you going to keep the stock spring/strut setup (meaning stock type struts and springs whether they be STi/Koni/Tokico/ struts and Tein/Hotchkis/prodrive/etc springs)? 2. Are you willing to change your camber plates for an autox? If #1 is yes then you have a very limited range of adjustment. The best you can hope for is camber only and you might get -2.5 out of it on a good day. You need -2.5 to -2.8 to hook the tire up and even then its barely enough for autox. Anything more than -2.8 and you will severely compromise braking ability. Plus its a waste. if #1 is no then you must be going to coilovers. if coilovers, most comes with their own plates. Zzyzx, RCE/KW and a few others do not come with them as a standard feature. if #2 is yes then by all means find a good camber plate. The PDE's are very nice. The cusco type are easy to find and 'cheap,' I think BG may have a set laying around. if #2 is no then....well, just set it to -2.5 and zero toe and deal with it. As for caster: +3.0 is NOT enough for autox. Its been proven time and time again that the +5.5 to +7.5 range is what is needed for a nationally competitive car. It does make a HUGE difference. I had +7.5 on the STS/STX/STU/DSP RS and it was what made the car drivable and competitive. I had +8 on the STX/STU WRX and while the rest of the car SUCKED HUGE DONKEY BALLS it's the only ST* prepped WRX to date that didnt use 0.0 rear camber, 1/2 inch of rear toe out and -3.5 front camber or a combination of stupid fucking swaybars to make it rotate. It had -2.5 camber/0.00 toe/+8 caster front, -2.2 camber and 0.00 toe in the rear. It went where I wanted it to go and had a shit ton of front grip that overcame the back super fast. You might remember that spin I had at the SUBARU Challenge? yeah...a little more -camber in the back would have fixed that... For track use, I have yet to settle on a proven range of numbers. However of the higher caster angle cars (3.0 vs 4.5 vs 5.5) I've driven they always felt better thru-out the entire corner than the less caster equipped cars. But to answer your last question: No its not worth it just to balance the cross caster. If it were .7~1.0 or more of a difference, yes. Since ST* rules prevent you from using Spec C control arms and unless you are going to get coilovers and the whiteline offset bushings, camber plate to set you at -2.5 will be fine.
Cool, thanks for the help guys. 1. Yes 2. I think Yes - I usually arrive early to AutoX, so I have no problem making adjustments before the event. I usually show up with my all season tires and switch to the Hankooks, so changing some camber settings would not be a big deal. However, after today's AutoX, I think I need a cone deflector before anything else. I believe I had the record for most cones in a single run and overall. These would be for AutoX use, no track use etc.... My commute is also quite short, so I'm not overly concerned with tire wear on my all seasons.
In that case I like the PDE plates, they are very easy to move. Just mark the holes when you are having the alignment done. When you are done at the autox move them back to the street settings. Matt
We are talking about very small toe changes....for instance These number are all made up but you can see where I'm going with this. 2.8 degrees of camber in the front with 1\8th toe out...now move the plates out to 1.8 degrees camber and you get 1\16th toe out....perfectly ok to drive around on. I like big toe out numbers front and back but the car is a handful to drive that way. You set it up to race and then dial it back to a number that works on the street. Matt
+1 for PDE. I have also noticed, that its not always about going more negative on camber for our cars, but increasing dynamic camber. Getting a big FSB was the best thing I ever did for autox'ing. My tires were making much more contact with the road in corners than simply having -2.5 of camber up front. I also normally only ran -1 to -.75 in the rear with a 26mm bar with very little oversteer action.
Thanks, I already got the big FSB! However, with -1.1 static camber (as much as I coukd get w/ alignment), I think I could go with a little bit more.
is there a downside to bigger caster? i have the noltec caster/camber plates sitting at home waiting to be put in as soon as i get my prodrives (from cough* josh booth cough*).. like too much negative camber= crazy tire wear (which i cannot afford on my hankook rs2s) and longer braking distances.
Yes, "too much" will cause wear on the inside edge of the tires. But I have heard of people who run -2 degrees without those wear issues. However, I have tires that I run just for AutoX and I will get plates that allow me to adjust from street settings to AutoX settings.
I don't remember the exact numbers but we found we could move the plates quite a bit without affecting the toe numbers
I could always adjust the toe as well, I'll figure it out. Someone suggested I get two alignments: one street and one AutoX, I'll have the marks for both on the tie rod ends so I can adjust from zero toe to a little toe-out in front.
I'd adjust my camber at an autox and I never had excessive wear from my toe being messed up. Nor was my toe severely messed up. And I did this for about 15-20 autoxs.
-1.1 is from the stock camber bolts. I was easily able to get -2.5 or more with the Ingalls camber bolts. FYI, in case you want to save a few hundred dollars. My alignment held even running 245 R's while autox'ing.