Thank you for joining the effort to preserve F-22 Raptor production, protect 95,000 American jobs, and support our national security! Together, we can send a unified message to Members of Congress and the New Administration that funding already authorized for this model aerospace program must be released immediately to continue production. While I personally don't work on the raptor I have several friends that do and the company I work for sells them a shit ton of equipment so this indirectly affects me. If you would be so kind please sign the petition which is intended to release the already authorized funds to keep the line going. Any cease in production drastically increases the cost due to lead times for fabricated parts. thanks guys! www.preserveraptorjobs.com
This didnt work back in the early 90's to save the Tomcat, its not going to happen now to save the Raptor. Its the F-14 program all over again.... Thanks to our new administration, defense contractors are likely going away for the next 4 to 8 years. I didnt vote for this.
Ha..ha... NOT. There's been lots of discussion elsewhere about this exact situation with the Raptor and it being 100% similar to what happened to the F-14.
Different times William this is the future of fighter jets and one of these could take on 20 F-14's and kill all without even being seen.
So was the F-14 20 years ago, and vs the F-4 Phantom. Quit yer whining, I signed the thing before I posted.
Even if they discontinue it Lockheed still has a part in making the F35. Checkout wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22 I wonder if somebody lost there job over this little mishap coverd in the recent developments section "While attempting its first overseas deployment to the Kadena Air Base in Okinawa, Japan, on 11 February 2007, a group of six Raptors flying from Hickam AFB, Hawaii experienced multiple computer crashes coincident with their crossing of the 180th meridian of longitude (the International Date Line). The computer failures included at least navigation (completely lost) and communication. The fighters were able to return to Hawaii by following their tankers in good weather. The error was fixed within 48 hours and the F-22s continued their journey to Kadena.[69]"
Signed... this is my favorite jet (which is blasphemy because I worked on F-16's in the AF).... They can't let the raptor go away, what going to take its place? F-35's? Or are we gonna keep trying to update Eagles and Falcons...
There's a few ways I see the F-35 going with the current administration... 1. F-22 falls fate to the same as the F-14 and the F-35 goes away too as the current administration are known as 'bug lovers' meaning they think the current F-18 configuration is perfectly fine. "No need to waste money when what we already has fits our needs." will be the reasoning. 2. F-22 falls fate to the same as the F-14 but the F-35 goes forward and lasts the next 4~8 years until the Republicans make it back into office. 3. F-22 stays and the F-35 goes away. 4. F-22 and F-35 some how sneak past the current administration...HIGHLY unlikely.
absolutely but the F35 line is in Ft Worth and it is not a true fighter. I am not sure why the AF would need any having the F22 at their disposal. Personally reducing the f35 to fund the ramaining F22 seems to be the smart thing to do. there have been many upgrades since that incident.
Will, explain your theory that the F-22 is falling to the same fate as the F-14... The tomcat was phased out because its a 40+ year old platform. The F-22 is in trouble because the Dems are in power and will probably go with their "current 20 year old platforms are good enough" motto instead of trying to stay ahead of the rest of the world like we should. As far as your options, I'm hoping your option 4 comes true some how, with option 3 being next best... While the F-35's ability to take off verticaly is a cool function, overall I'm not impressed.. While the Raptor is the future, with nothing even coming close to touching it...
You are not aware then... Back when the Tomcat first came about, the A was not the end all. B, C, D, E, Quick Strike and Super Tomcat 21 were already planned and they were seeking funding. The Pratt and Whitney TF30's were NOT the engine of choice, it was only an interim engine until the PW400's were ready for service (5 years after fleet delivery) and it was to be the mainstay engine in all Tomcats. Well, Congress chose to keep the TF30's in to save money and the P&W F401-400 went away. Well, 30 aircraft lost later due to the TF30's problems and Congress allowed a runoff between the P&W F401-400 and the General Electric F110-GE-400 engines. The GE's were best since instead of just reliability and thrust improvement, the GE's also increased fuel economy by 63% under cruise and loiter, no afterburner takeoff from carrier and you could do whatever you wanted thru-out the entire flight envelope. It was also easily fitted. It would be 6 more years before Congress allowed funding for it. By 1986 some F-14A's were getting the GE's and F-14B's were coming new from Grumman with them. By 1988, the F-14D development was done. It was to be the ultimate. It truly was for its time and still is quite impressive. However, Congress didnt want to fund it anymore and stop F-14 production altogether. The Cold War was at an end, along with other factors. (Dick Cheney has a big part in forcing Grumman out of business and F-14s out of the air) So the funding for the F-14 program altogether was stripped. However, Grumman and congress were able to come up with a compromise. 37 new built F-14D's and a further 18 F-14As rebuilt to F-14D standards, and after that, no more upgrades, no more funding, no more new F-14's and the END of Grumman. Their thinking: "The F-18 fits the Navy's needs. No need for a Cold War era interceptor anymore." Northrop purchased Grumman and the two merged. Luckily, Lockheed/Martin Marietta (now Lockheed Martin) and a few other companies kept supporting the best Fighter the Navy ever had such that the final integration of the LANTRIN and other Air-to-Ground systems would extend the service capabilities of the aircraft, and they did so quite successfully. So...with Congress not wanting to fund the Raptor anymore...for the same/similar reasons as the F-14...it seems like the EXACT SAME SITUATION. Congress feels the F-15/F-16/F-18/A-10 is fine and 'fits the Air Force's needs' so we dont need to fund the F-22. This will cost lots of jobs and while it might not force Lockheed Martin out like it did Grumman, it will HURT Lockheed and Boeing pretty bad as well as the economy as a whole. We're talking hundreds of MILLIONS of not BILLIONS of $'s here. So its the same POLITICAL situation as the F-14 faced in 1987 to 1992.
Maybe I'm being naive, but couldn't the MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of dollars being spent by the government towards some other contract or contracts that also gives a great number of people jobs (like, I dunno, something energy policy related)? Just stirring the pot...
P.S. Sorry techlord. I didn't write that in regards to your original post or intentions of this thread. I really do feel for your friends and hope that everything turns out for them. My reply was towards the argument that it will crush the economy and such.
don't worry Deke. Its only a reasonable thing to think as a tax payer. The problem is, as a dedicated fighter, the f35 give about 90% of the performance of the f22. And in everything else is much more versatile; offers VTOL, its stealth components are cheaper, and because its the Joint Strike Fighter, the cost is spread among other nations as well. Per unit, the F35 is about 40% cheaper than the f22. The two fighters compliment eachother and are both very versatile, but if it looks like only one will survive, its more likely to be the f35 for mostly political reasons. 1: current administration is likely to take a stance that defense spending is too high no matter what 2: having exclusive technology, wether nuclear or conventional, is seen by the current administration as a negative for foreign relations. 3: defense contracts are a hotbutton issue for 'fat cats' to have the finger pointed at them. the f35 has more international attachments in its production and will be seen by the current administration as 'more fair' because there is no major union at play here compared to say UAW or Teacher's union, this kind of initiative won't get news coverage or buzz generation, i'm afraid. So public opinion on the subject will probably be swept under the rug and the administration will just do what it wants.
I sent it out to my entire office, as well as everyone in my contacts. My Fiance works in Enviromental Safty there.
^^hey man thanks a bunch (what's your fiance's name I probably know her) and thanks to everyone for the support! yo duck, your information is not entirely correct but getting that deep would get me in trouble. There is however a fairly large union in play and LMAERO is far larger than just Marietta.
i didn't say there wasn't a union. just not one with any major political or media clout right now. ;p And that will have more to do with its future than the device's actual performance. Democrats are all for protectionism as long as they're protecting their voting base. Defense contractors and unions under them aren't their bread and butter. Thats just one of the political favours to cover in the next 4 years. :/ And while I know just enough about them as a fanboy, I sure don't claim to be an aviator, or an engineer in the least. ;] Don't misunderstand my cynicism tho. Ideally, i'd love to see both programs stay, but there is a simple fact of how expensive the 22 is...
Just so you know, most of the technologies going into the JSF program, more specifically the F-35, were developed in/from the F-22 program. It would be safe to say, that if all that money was not spent on the initial F-22 program and getting them operational, the F-35 would not be what it is going to be, or it would NOT be at all.
They’re a titanium and carbon fiber dagger. They’re so advanced that if their on-board locator is switched off even our own satellites can lose track of them. They’re the first military aircraft ever built that is equipped with a “black-out button”. What that means is this. The best conditioned fighter pilots are capable of maintaining consciousness up to in the vicinity of 15+ G. The Raptor is capable of making 22+ G. turns. If some day an adversary builds a missile that is capable of catching up to one of these airplanes and a Raptor pilot sees that a strike is imminent, he hits the “B.O.B.” and the airplane makes a virtual U-turn, leaving the missile to pass right on by. They know that in the process he’ll temporarily lose consciousness, so the Raptor then automatically comes back to straight and level flight until he wakes back up. pretty bad ass.
Kinda hard to completely hide the IR signature....yes I know it has a much better/smaller/harder to track IR sig compared to 4th and 4.5 gen fighters.
Yeah. I'm sure the satellites can lose track of them temporarily, but get back on them shortly. I'd be scared as hell to push the B.O.B. I ride in one of my professor's planes when we go to pick up parts for his Formula 2 car, and when he pulls 4-5 Gs I try to hook breath. haha.
This is pretty interesting: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19980223621_1998381731.pdf
I have a buddy who works there and says they are coming out with a new raptor, which confuses me because of this issue i keep hearing about.
Interesting discussion on this thread. Notice the max speed of the Raptor is capable of speeds over 1600 mph or a little over mach 2... I want a ride.
unfortunately the voting populace at large disagrees. Regardless of it being impossible for the government to create a job; they can only take a job out of the private sector.