Hello everyone, I hear there has been alot of talk about dynos recently and I feel I may be able to answer some of the questions that have come up. Before we get started I would like to say that I think for most people any Mustang, Dynojet, or Land and Sea will probably get the job done. That being said don't listen to every thing you here. I'm not trying to push anyone in any direction. All I'm saying is be diligent, do research, and make a decision based on what you have learned. I know for a fact that Land and Sea Dyno's are very accurate. Some people don't quite understand inertia settings and feel that if they change then the data will change.However this is not the case. The inertia settings are specific to the dyno and are only changed to factor in the added inertia of 4 rollers(awd) and 2(rwd/fwd). Another myth is that mustang and land-and-sea dynos read low. This is not a low reading it is an accurate reading. Have a look at what Hot Rod magazine has to say about Dyno Jet's power formula(page 2). http://www.hotrod.com/thehistoryof/1..._creation.html All I really trying to say is make the decision for yourself don't listen to me or anyone else. Just RESEARCH __________________
I'm honestly so over the dyno discussion, its funny everyone thinks their dyno is better than the other. I have seen a lot of cars tuned on dynojets by Scott, Doug, and Dan and I've never seen one of them come off a dynojet and go onto the street for a road tune and need any significant change, nothing that would have caused a failure anyway. Mustangs, DynoDynamics, and Land and Sea are all nice dynos but they are more expensive and they don't do anything significantly better than a dyno jet...IN MY OPINION and I think in the OPINION of most tuners on this board. I feel its safe to say that Scott has probably tuned on more dynos than anyone else on this board and he doesn't seem to have a problem cranking out HUNDREDS of perfectly tuned Subarus every year and all on a Dynojet... So yes think for yourself....but think about it this way... Do you really care if the dyno is accurate? What does an accurate dyno do for me, other than "accurate numbers"? If you want accurate numbers I can give you a hp equation based on 1\4 mile mph and weight that is pretty damn "accurate". In conclusion lets not have this dyno conversation because someone is just going to get all butt hurt about it.
the misuse of their/there/they're and hear/here in this thread makes me want to curb stomp baby seals
Dyno competitions = FTW! Go 'till it blows! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcryycH1mS8&feature=channel
Sorry I type fast and I usually run my post through word so I can use a real spell check program....however today I did not.
I don't think he was trying to compare dynos so much as just point out that the Land and Sea is a good solid dyno. As you have pointed out, it IS just a tool to accomplish a goal...to get the car tuned and running to the best of it's ability. The Land and Sea is a great tool as are many other dynos out there. I think some people have the impression that the inertia settings can allow the results to be skewed, when in fact there is only one specific inertia setting for the dyno. Once set, it should be left alone. That just takes into account the size of the rollers, etc. If this is screwed up, it can and will mess up the results though. But as has been pointed out before, the true result is taking the car for a ride after and being satisfied with the work that was accomplished on the dyno.
Here is a 2005 stage 2 Sti Ecutec (we think it is Ecutec, it is locked) tuned on the Land and Sea. Not sure who tuned it, but I am guessing one of the shops here since it is a Georgia car and has spent all it's life here in Atlanta. The modified is just a label showing that it has been tuned from what a base model Sti would do. Normally if we were tuning a car we would have a base run showing base hp and a modified run showing the hp after modifications. It is AtlFreestyle's car. Basic stage 2 protuned with up, tbe, perrin bcs as engine mods.
Seriously... if a dyno is reading a STG2 car with that kind of power something is way way off with the settings. Just pulled a few off of Nasioc, numbers are on par with what is seen across the US. I know I have tuned in every corner of the country on every type of dyno. "{Land and Sea search" 06wrx vf39 - 280hp 330tq http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1332321&highlight=land+sea 08sti stg2 292hp 342tq http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1659754&highlight=land+sea 02wrx stk td04 on 93oct 255hp 255tq http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788850&highlight=land+sea
I'll stick to the high HP reading dyno's since I'm not a tuner and telling people my car makes around what stock makes makes my penis feel small.
There are apparently only 4 of these particular Land and Sea across the US. There are multiple models of Land and Sea. Think of it like this. There is the base model Impreza, the WRX and the Sti. This would be the Sti of Land and Sea dynos. The intro level one is like 40k or something like that. This one is around $120,000. The ones you are pulling results from are most likely their entry level dynos using different rollers and such and are not quite as precise. Again, this is just what I have been told. I just thought I would share some results from a EcuTec protuned stage 2 Sti. It apparently reads like a Mustang Dyno (the heart breaker) and uses the same hp formula. The torque is pretty much right on I think. Everything looked good up until around 5500 rpms. The hp is a little low. I did notice it was pulling some timing up top. One of the reasons I wanted to get D's car on the dyno is to check the tune to make sure it was safe for him to drive for now and get some AFR readings. It did have some learned knock correction in the upper rpms and probably could make a couple more hp with a new tune, but overall I think it is within 10-15 hp of what it would max out at. Once we figure out a way to get the EcuTec off of there I plan on retuning it. This is pretty consistent with what we have seen on other Sti's. I think it was 07 limited's stage 1 that put down like 240 at the wheels. As for the settings, Matt was on the phone with Land and Sea this past week and double checked all the settings to make sure they were accurate. Here are some Mustang dyno results for a Stage 2 Sti's: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1542769&highlight=knob 05 Sti stage 2 257hp/292 torque http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=700004 05 Sti Stage 2 Type of Dyno: Mustang Baseline # for a stocker at the dyno: around 170 Boost: 14.5 Fuel: 93 Octane Target AFR: Unknown SAE Corrections: Unknown Peak HP at RPM: 243.3 @ 6000 Peak Torque at RPM: 240.0 @ 3750 Mods: Helix up/downpipe, Cobb catback, Unichip, TXS MBC @ 14.5psi, K&N drop-in filter, GP Moto intake elbow
:rofl::rofl: Nice stuff Mike. Well, we are planning to dyno Doug's monster on here back to back with his dyno just so we know the difference and have a good perspective. This is not about one being better or worse than the other so much as trying to gauge the difference between the two. As stated above, it is not the numbers so much as the before and after of the car. Doug you missed a good meet tonight at the Taco Mac.
Interesting thread and post on Dynos I found. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466396 Here is a post from it by Clark Turner: Be carefull on Mustang dyno's. There is no telling what Cal file is being used. I have seen them read stock cars from 180 all the way down to the 140's depending on the file. Matrix engineerings dyno reads a stock WRX at 155-162whp. We tested two the last time I was up there tuning Utecs. Very close to the Dyno dynamics on a setting of 120. My take on the loss issue... The Dyno dynamics people told me in training that the loss is NOT linear. In fact they where real straight forward about it. As you do more work you create more resistance. I asked point blank: Does a 150whp WRX have less drivetrain loss then a 300whp WRX? They said "yes, with out a doubt". I believe them because they designed and built the dyno. Crank HP is a tricky thing. Anytime you do a conversion and it produces a high number people bark that its not acurate. Lets take my car with my old setup for example: Both Pulls are aprox 200RPM Off. We dyno tested 16 cars that day and got lazy with the gear ratio. In other words my pull went to 7800 before I let out and the stock car I let out at 6800. No sense in going to redline when power is dropping off and I am not tuning.. These where a "dyno shootout" pull. This stock car was done the same day. 120 load setting. So.. I made 364whp. The stock car touched 160whp. This was the strongest stock car pull of the day. Stock car has 227hp rated and made 160whp. If I made 320whp OR double the whp of a stock car would I have 454 crank hp? I did not make 320. I made 364.6 Or 44.6 whp MORE then double a stock car. Surely this means I am around 500 crank hp right? acording to Shiv's file I have 1.42 figue of loss. So that puts me at 517 crank HP. Based on his file my whp would be: 410whp on a dynapak about the same on a mustang (364) 433whp on a dynajet. But no, Its impossible to make 517hp on unleade gas. Or thats the **** that was talked when I posted that chart The point is.. Pick one way and believe it and use it. What I do is simply say I have 204 whp over a stock car. Or at least I did.. My new setup has more. Clark Clark seems to be a pretty knowledgeable guy and done his homework on the various dynos.
Now HERE is an interesting link. Apparently Turbo Magazine dynoed the same car on 6 different dynos the same day: http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0306tur_turbo_magazine_dyno_dash/index.html
Yup and all 6 of those dyno's read within 8% of each other. Also to be noted the Dynojet was the second lowest reading dyno from the comparison.
Well I guess we will have a better glimpse after we run your car on both dynos on the same day. We can also do Sonny's when it is done. I think it should be pretty cool and a good tool for gauging results between the two dynos. Oh and it's around 12% difference actually 228 to 257 on hp
Hey Doug, I guess it will not be this weekend since you are going racing eh? Just let me know and I can set things up with Beyond OEM.