Ok so I now have a cool little gauge that measures intake air temperature post intercooler with a k type thermocouple. My thought is to grab a couple different top mounts and run them all through the paces to see exactly how they all react. I am currently working on building a custom pipe that I can mount the probe in so that I could switch them all out. So far I have been running it mounted to my SSAC glorious ebay intercooler. I would LOVE to get my hands on a couple nice aftermarket TMIC and a stock Sti TMIC so that they can all be tested just to see how they all compare. Some things I have found so far with my SSAC TMIC....at lower speeds it is not nearly as efficient. When I am 55+ mph it does a great job cooling things off even under 18 psi of boost on a stock turbo. Cruise conditions I am within 5 degrees F of ambient temps. Heat soak takes about a mile to completely get rid of. But, I figured this would be an interesting experiment. This will probably not take place till sometime next month, but if we can get some volunteer TMIC and arrange a date I can try to get as many as possible all tested on the same day, same general temperatures, etc. I plan to do real world driving test. Call it a course with boost events at certain pre-determined areas. I can monitor intake air temps with the computer and datalog all post-intercooler temperatures as well. It only takes a few moments for me to remove a TMIC, so it would be nothing at all to pull the car up, snatch it off and put it on my car for the testing then replace it when done.
I've got a brand new old school TXS top mount sitting around the house somewhere, and Alex has the older? Perrin top mount, but I don't know if he can take his off or not.
variables should consider 1. Inlet temp and flow 2. outlet temps and flow 3. ambient temp and humidity if you have all that data i can plot for you everything you need to compare and if you can vary couple of inlet temps than i can get you full efficiency charts. suggestion test on bench has better control and repeatable use a heat gun as turbo it can adjust for temp setup: heatgun - temp probe - Anemometer - Y pipe - TMIC - hose - temp prbe (out) - anemometer for the cream: spray water and see if it changes the outlet temp
No, I hear ya Ming, but at the same time bench can only show so much. I think real world conditions will end up giving better results. Then you are getting actual flow over the intercooler as it would in the car, varying heat based on boost levels, and see exactly how resistant the various intercoolers are to flow. For instance, the compressor outlet might be 20 to make 17 psi at the manifold for one intercooler and 25 to make 17 psi on another. Then it shows efficiency thermally as well as pressure drop...I am planning on running a couple boost gauges as well. Pre and post intercooler.
Now this will come into play with my 2.5L build. I'm looking to keep everything as close to stock looking as possible and would prefer to keep the top mount I/C location.
I doubt it. Most of the Spearco guys are from around P&L since they are big on that TMIC. All I know is I saw one and it's HUGE! Makes the Perrin look little at first glance.
After driving seans 20g and feeling the lag from the fmic I'm in no hurry for a front mount and will most likely go with another top mount
the lag is not that noticeable, it's all in your head. Tubes charge in fractions of a second, and the amount of time you're talking about charging an extra 6 feet of piping is next to non-existent. Couple that with the fact that a FMIC is more efficient (only slightly, but still) and has much better potentials for supporting more power, why would you ever want to upgrade power and not go FMIC? edit - besides, you can get FMIC kits for dirt cheap now days, so cost shouldn't be an issue either
It was definitely noticeable. Possibly due to the lack of avcs in our hybrids. Although his was the only one I have driven with a front mount. I'm just not looking for big power. I'd consider it in the future but I'm definitely going 20g w/tmic before 20g w/fmic.
The airflow engineer above you is correct the math just doesn't support a FMIC spooling that much slower. There is no reason a properly setup FMIC with the BOV in the proper location...near the throttle body should spool significantly slower than a topmount.
key is consistency in testing for a comparable results yes real world is te true test but it will be all over the charts because there are just too many variables once you get the efficiency value at various flow it does not matter what you do to that. ask why turbo efficiency charts are made on bench tests ?
I've got an old APS ver1 TMIC that I'll throw into the fray if I'm free when you start doing the tests.
I have thought about the dyno and that might be the way to go honestly, Doug. That way we could also do FMIC if anyone actually had one off the car. At any rate, once I get all finished up with the wedding I will try to get a date for this some time next month. Anyone who wants to come hang out will be free to come. There has been a lot of debate about various top mounts and I figured it would be nice to get some good solid data to actually show people how they all compare. Since I really won't be tuning for them there will not be HP gains or losses, but I think it should show overall efficiency.
Damn you Mike. Thanks to this thread...I decided to *finally* install my TMIC yesterday. So, I get the old one off, put on the new ypipe I had bought...and it was a damn wrx fitment ypipe. Then I tried to make it fit, and then had to put the stock IC back on. This is all your fault for reminding me that I had it sitting at the house.:crying: So...anyone have an STI ypipe they arent using?
Lmao sorry bout that. I am sure you will get it sorted though. You could always buy a nice shiney new silicon y pipe!
Ive got an older (3 years or so) APS top mount ill volunteer. PM me the info on when and where if youre interested, please keep it to the weekends.
I looked at my data a while ago and I found that the best of the topmounts is the perrin or the aps unit. They are virtually the same. Just a heads up. The results are all terrible compared to the cheapest frontmount you can get. We put tons of flow through the topmount and pushed all the hot air that the engine was making and still got better results with a $500 frontmount. Dan
Cool, thanks for the input Dan. I just figured we would try to get some good solid hard data. Then we can show the results so everyone car see first hand what each of them were able to do. I still do not have a good solid date for this, but I will work towards that. I really need to finish up the S256 and S362 tunes and hopefully get those into production before I work on this.