I know not all of you may have as keen a political interest as myself and some other board members, but I hope you guys are all at least watching the news coming out of Iran. Not only is it fascinating, it will have direct consequences felt by everyone, from Iraqis next door, to our troops over there, to Israel intervention policy to prices at the pump here.
Yeah it's bad news over there. With all the rioting and flaming motorcycles on the streets we'd think the Iranian soccer team just lost the world cup. It's' intersting how their real supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamene’i now says he wants the election process investigated. Weather Ahmedinejad wins or not probably doesn't matter since the country is a theocracy, and the winner ends up being the Ayatollah's stooge anyway. The supreme leader my just be going through the motions so that he can maintain his own credibility.
^^ Thats my understanding as well... The Ayatollah of Rock'n Rolla has the wheel. Why he would want a madman like Ahmedinejad(cant spell or pronounce his name) in power is beyond me. I have a hard time believing even 20% of Iranians share his views.. And, even if they do, do they really want him on tv yelling "DEATH TO ISREAL, DEATH TO AMERICA".... Fucking fruitloop. Thats a whole lot of not good going on over there.
You'd be surprised at how much the political ambitions of the Ayatollah vary from that of the president. The Ayatollah is actually concerned with stabilizing the future of Iran, whereas the president only cares enough to be re-elected. IIRC the Ayatollah supported the US invasion while Ahmadinejad opposed it, but both are opposed to the state of Israel.
I had heard their views were way diff.. thats why I said I'm surprised he's put into power. I would think Irans elections are even more rigged then ours. So I don't see why the Ayatollah doesn't put someone in with the same generel ideals... The Ayatollah seems more even keeled(spell?) and the president is a total nutcase...
Ayatollah is in term for life so he cares a lot more about Iran's position in the changing global atmosphere, President serves 5yr terms so his agendas must be much more radical in order to have overall policy shifts. This has resulted in the environment of fear that iran has put itself into, they push to develop nukes, just to feel threatened and imposed on by the rest of the world who fears what they would do with nuclear technology. North Korea is very similar, flaunting missile capability because they know that in any standard confrontation they cant hang with the big dogs. Kinda like the kid on the playground trying to start a fight with the bullies just to get some kind of attention and thinking that the negative attention is better than positive attention. The president is worried about short-term power losses and appearing weak, the Ayatollah has much more to lose if Iran is attacked since it is his supreme mandate to uphold the theocracy, and I believe that he can dismiss the president if he chooses, although i'm sure it must be confirmed by the high council.
but clearly, there is a major disconnect that has been brewing for the last 10 years especially in the younger Iranians. Every report I've read on the subject for a long time says the people are far more interested in nicer relations with the west and internal affairs improvement of their nation far more than antagonising with Iraqis anymore, or really caring that much about Israel in proportion. Not that they want to get all warm and fuzzy, its still a very densely concentrated set of cultural and religious pride, but its nowhere near as much suck as those in power.
Thats my impression as well... Seems like the newer generation are much more level headed. Not hellbent on destroying Iraq and Isreal.. Curious to see what happens in the next few days.. If the Ayatollahs request for investigation will either reverse the decision(doubtfull) or at least satisfy the people(doubtfull). Great analogy with NK.. seams like very similar situations.. Both countries know we would wipe them off the planet at 1st launch, but do not want to appear weak, especially with the US weakening by the minute. Both leaders = crazy. Gonna be interesting...
The Ayatollah should be worried for his political future. It wasn't that long ago there when a revolution ran out the Shah and put an Islamic government in place. It looks like the students and young people are determined to make another change.
Nothing in Iran is looking good at the moment. I am a staunch Israel supporter, so unrest in Iran should be seen as a good thing, but I don't see it that way. Either outcome is going to be bad. Imagine that the elections are rigged, and Mousavi really won. But, imagine that this was all planned out ahead of time. Rigged election results are reported, claiming Achmadenijad the winner. Unrest begins, Riots, and massive civil unrest. Ayatollah announces that there will be an investigation of the results. This could go two ways. Ayatollah can claim no voter fraud and Achmadenijad really won, and dig in for the confrontation with the West that is sure to come. Or, Ayatollah announces that there was Voter fraud, or that Mousavi really won. Riots stop, people in Iran are happy. Ayatollah then publicly announces that Iran is a great democracy, pointing to the fraud revealed as his proof. I can just see Obama buying this line hook, line, and sinker, and praising Iran for the great democracy that it isn't. Since signs of democracy would be showing, previous sanctions would be dropped, and the world will start to back off, all the while, Ayatollah is still the one pulling all the strings, so really nothing has changed. The final path this whole thing could take is that Ayatollah denies any voter fraud, but election results continue to be leaked, indicating that Mousavi really won. The civil unrest continues until the Ayatollah is overthrown. This final option would be the best possible outcome, but I think it would require the US supporting the opposition in Iran, which I think we should completely stay out of. If we support the opposition, the Iranian ruling elite would broadcast news of it, as a way to show the US meddling in their internal affairs, which would be a huge rallying point for Achmadenijad. I could go on and on. I read Israeli newspapers every day, and many other publications, especially in the Middle East. The cycle of violence there will never end.
I was reading the am that Mousavi's views don't differ from Achmadenijads that much... So, just like our last election here, its a shit sandwich vs. a douchebag... adding to the epic fail of the situation over there...
I think Obama's response is a more reasonable than McCain's. We really can't intefer without becoming fuel to the fire for Ahmadinejad. Even if we could it really doesn't get us much. Best thing is to let them sort it out and hopefully it becomes bad enough that the people want to get rid of the Ayatollah .
To play conspiracy theory here, this is a good way to inflate oil prices. Prices have been falling or steady at best, now summer is kicking in and use goes up. Have a regional flare up and the markets get nervous, price of crude goes up, brokers get nervous along with insurance rates for shipping, and once again we'll pay $4.00 per gallon by July. Congress will take a nice little summer break to campaign for the 2010 elections. The supposed unrest will subside by October along with gas use. The media will play the same song and dance about the evil oil companies actually making a whopping 4 to 5% net profit. The politicians will have face time espousing about the working families struggling all the while passing the "idiots" health care plan. For those of us who actually have a real degree that does not include the words, "liberal arts" in it will get hosed by the tax increases to pay for those to stupid or lazy to get real degrees or jobs for that matter.
The one thing you all have failed to mention is the demographics of Iran. This is not an Islamic country by history standards, just who happens to be in power at this time. I haven't read up on the recent breakdown by religion but if memory serves it's not by much of a majority Muslim percentage. As with most countries in that region, the sharia law is oppressive and we know how the "youth" take to that. Just as the dawn of the "internet" caused trouble with the Chinese in regards to Tienanmen Square, it's now the social networks like "Tweet" that's causing problems for the Supreme Council and the Revolutionary Guards. But hell as long as the fighting is going on inside the borders of Iran, resources won't be going out to Hezbollah in Lebanon, or Iraq and Afghanistan.
Thats what I'm saying. The military is not totally into suppressing this, except the 'elite' military and secret police around Tehran. The fact that the protests and riots breaking out for days now and arent turning into the Al Anfar campaign (yet) is a sign of how the few really are dictating the many.
Ayotollah says no fraud... http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/085991...lYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA2lyYW5zc3VwcmVtZQ--
And Yesterday, they were trying to shift attention away from the election protests by claiming to have caught Israeli spys planting bombs in Mosques throughout Tehran to kill innocent civilians. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3733649,00.html Today should be an interesting day in Iran.
The Ayatollah announced today at prayer that the election results have been verified and Achmadenijad has won. Expect the police to crack down today and the violence to begin.
From what I just heard on the news a second ago the protests are now aiming at the Ayotollah and not the election results? Not sure if I heard CNN right, but this is going to get ugly tomorrow if the protest is as big as the one today...
I heard similar. That is the only way anything that is happening now will even matter. If no overthrow of the Ayatollah, what is the point? The second he announced that they were preparing to suppress the Popular protest by force, it is no longer just about elections, its about a ruler that doesn't care one bit about his people.
Well I doubt there is anyone left in D.C. with the balls to take advantage of the situation at hand concerning the benefits of yet another unstable regime in the region other than the Saudi lobbyists. This will be a great way to bolster our sagging economy with some arms sales to offset the higher cost of oil. There is now a push to stop the import of refined gas into Iran and to take that into consideration. Just think, their infrastructure teeters on the brink of failure as it is now, then to lose the keep element of distribution [gas], there will be more than just riots and protest in Tehran. If there is an embargo of gas into Iran, the civil unrest will spread all over starting at the outskirts and moving toward the centers of power. God I love international relations, the best chess game in the world is being played right now with this crisis, I hope we win this time around.
thats because everyone left in the whitehouse equates 'taking advantage of' with "OMG INVADE WAR BOMB BROWN PEOPLE RACISTS WARHAWK WHITE DEVIL IMPERIAL AMERICAN OPPRESSION ABU GRAIB OCCUPATION RAWR" for a guy who claims a diplomacy mantle, he sure is taking a dumb 'ron paul' approach...
What we are allowed to see and led to believe through the mainstream media is just propaganda anyway, weather it be from their media or ours, neither will portray the truth, we most likely could not handle it. Don't get to worked up about Obama either. This has been a one party system for years. All the election hooha is just a distraction. Our government is probably hoping you cram another whopper and fries down your throat, chase it with a chemically brewed beer or a soda packed full of sugar, corn syrup and artificial color and go to bed worrying about if you're going to have a job in the morning and if you didn't forget any of the prescriptions that you need to counteract the 3000-6000 daily calories full of hydrogenated oils and sugars that will slowly kill you much to the joy of the prescription companies and fast food conglomerates who are making billions of your slow death. The most powerful weapon on Earth right now is debt. If you want to research true power and corruption research the world bank. They broker wars....................
Sorry for the link to a link but... A disturbing video with an Iranian girl that got shot for no reason in the middle of all the mess. Man its fucked up over there... wouldn't be surprised if the video gets pulled soon... NWS due to violence. http://www.iwsti.com/forums/nws-forum/166861-nws-iranian-women-shot-during-protests.html
Surprised you guys don't have any thoughts on this video^^... I guess my thinking this video would be pulled was way off... CNN has been running it every 5 minutes all night. I hate mass media, this is getting exploitive. This horrible event could be brought to light without running this video. I don't need to watch an innocent young girl die on camara to figure out its straight madness over there right now. This video ranks right behind the beheading video a few years back... I'm glad I didn't watch that one, and I wish I could unwatch this one. I'm not the squeemish type and seeing this stuff in movies is one thing, but this will stick with me forever. CNN and any other stations broadcasting this can DIAF. And before someone says it, yes I realize my hypocrisy dogging the media when I posted the video on here as well... I guess I just figured it was relevant to the thread.
That video is so disturbing. The beheading of Daniel Pearl was worse, but this one definitely has an impact. Yes, I agree with you, the Mass Media sucks, playing this video over and over again, but at the same point, every single blog I have read and every news website since it happened also embedded the video, so no matter what you do, you just can't get away from it.
the problem is what is spectator and what is responsible journalism? in both cases, a journalist will say the public must have access to this information thru our coverage of it to understand that these circumstances are arising based on the course we take. I think in the case of the girl, its different tho. The non military beheading was used as a political cudgel against W Bush more than it was a reflection of how horrible our foe is. But in case of the girl, I think it stands to reason that we must be shown this image to bear the fact we are complicit in its occurrence and tolerance of it. Nobody questions we didn't tolerate the beheading, or the clear course we wanted to take in response to that act. can we say we have the same clarity in the case of the girl? In the instance of our political leaders, we cant.
Crazy McNutbar is at it again..... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090628/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_election
You like the headlines where Ahmedenijad called Obama 'Bush?' I would love to have heard mr diplomacy's immediate reaction to that.
Apparently today Former President of Iran Mohammed Khatami has switched sides and is now demanding new elections. He even accused the Supreme Ayatollah and Guardian Council of conducting a "Coup". His previous status as Iranian president and Khamenei favorite gives him even more standing to call out Khamenei as a tyrant.
You see all the talk about Iran and its nuclear programme? ANd about those UK press figures they're going to put 'on trial?' i think Iran is pushing its luck. I think the Iranian elite thinks that because we elected a political pacifist and diplomatic appeaser that they have carte blanch to act as they please without the reprisal that W offered. But thats just it. Most of the people who voted for Obama were all sighing a huge breath of relief because probably the 2nd biggest reason he was elected was enough people were 'tired' of the war in Iraq. They were all thinking "great, now that bush is out of the way, the rest of the world wont be as upset and stop acting the fool. Just because Bush is gone, they'll play nice. After all, its what they said was upsetting them." I wonder how much it will take for those same people to go "Hey! We sent Bush away, what else do you want!? Knock it off!" And how long before those same people demand the limp-wristed people in power do something? Iran might be in for a wakeup call if it does something so unpopular with Americans that all bets are off as far as the public is concerned.
^^ I wonder how far Iran would have to go to get Americans to say Fuck it. If the whining I hear from co-workers and on tv is any indication, Iran could blow up one of our cities and get away with it... I can see it now "We have a strong disliking to you blowing up our city, please don't do it again or we'll strongly dislike it again".
oh i'm sure theres those out there, but I just cant believe they outnumber the people who simply convinced themselves it was Bush's fault, and if it were anyone else would have expected action all the same.
The U.S. must choose wisely here. It's not as simple as dropping a nuke or invading. The truth is if we went in and took care of Afghanistan originally we would be in a better position to take out Iran. The reason this is, is because Iraq and Iran did not get along. Although Iraq was against the U.S. and the West it was firmly rooted in defending itself against Iran if it had to. When we went in and took out Hussein Iran was celebrating. We saved them a ton of money and lives. We went into Iraq for allot of different business reasons, mostly pandering to the Saudi's who the Bush family has been in bed with for decades. Now Iraq is frail at best we left them worse off as far as their infrastructure and government they are completely volatile to all their neighbors like Syria, Turkey and worst of all Iran. Iran is fully aware of this which is why they are getting cocky. Sending an invasion force to Iran would not only break the bank it would most likely start a world war. Remember Sharia Law binds all Middle Eastern countries together, even though countries appose each other, there is a common denominator that binds them. They are all technically theocracies prior to being political entities. We can't just waltz in and take out countries over there, we have to ask permission. Just like Bush did with the Saudi's before Iraq. The only exception was Afghanistan since they attacked us. Even Sharia law respects that. Even worse we played into Al Qaeda's shell game. The blow we dealt them in Afghanistan originally was enough to knock them off their feet. When we went into Iraq and did not commit in Afghanistan it allowed them to reorganize and re-centralize their command. They kept the bombings up in Iraq to distract Bush so they could get established in Afghanistan and start destabilizing Pakistan which was always their plan. Pakistan is on the Afghan border and has Nuke's already. Bush and company played right into their con. Another irony is that going into Iraq did not allow us to capitalize on any of the oil there, which is what I was hoping for. It just drained our tax revenue. The only people who really gained form it were companies like Halliburtin who supplied logistics and support services to the troops and of course the defense contractors. It fulfilled the Saudi's wishes who hated Hussein. As I stated you might as well forget about the supposed two party system. Just because our government is a little to the right or left isn't going to make a huge difference. There are far bigger powers at play than that the common citizen like you and I are aware of. The media in this country is tragic and is nothing more than a propaganda machine so hopefully you are not paying attention to these sources for you info, other than Michael Savage and a few other independent sources. Either way the current administration as left as it may appear to be will not pull out of Afghanistan anytime soon. It is far more volatile that what it appears. They will also be forced to act as far as Iran is concerned just like Jimmy Carter was, the question is to what extent will they respond. I think they will wait for Europe to act first right now which is not a bad idea. We are always the first to commit and spend our money anyway while everyone else whistles Dixie. We are also spread very thin right now and we must choose where we swing our sword at wisely because we cannot afford to go on world conquests. Iraq drained our resources. North Korea is another mild threat, however I am not as worried about them because China has a huge interest in South Korea as a base for manufacturing in Asia. Check this site out, If you do research http://www.aseansec.org/ you will see how the East is Uniting as a trade entity, believe me they will take care of their own. Those folks don't fu?& around when it comes to money! That's why they own our asses..............
We would be reaping the benefits of cheaper oil if the bonehead leftists that we elected in the first place hadn't passed a law requiring the Iraqis to abide by our environmental rules. Naturally the CHICOMS jumped at this, now they are going to buy cheap Iraqi oil. Yet another fact left out by the mainstream media.
Not quite. I made it through about 4 or 5 lines. Paragraph spacing next time please. That may make it well said, but in current format, I won't even bother trying to read the entire post.
Thank you for this post. I know I thanked underneath the post also, but I just felt an intelligent, well thought-out, non-blind-stereotypical-party-bashing post should be emphasized. Cheers to you sir.
The Iranians aren't done, it looks like. All of the opposing candidate to Ahmedenijad joined together and called for a religious themed 3-day workers strike for the protectors to follow. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124701049387008635.html this story mentions the calling for a Etekaf to be observed. Maybe some of our more knowledgeable on Islam board members could clarify? At any rate, this still isnt over.
Its amazing more people care about MJ's death than this news or cap and trade. Wake up america!!! SAD
I am surprised that the unrest is still continuing, with almost no coverage of it in the Mainstream Media. Yesterday, I read about the non-street protests. I read about how the opposition cleverly planned and executed an attack of sorts on Achmadenijad. During his speech, protesters plugged in and turned on as many electric devices as they possibly could, causing blackouts across the capital. Today, they are back in the streets protesting in mass and getting attacked by the government with Batons and Tear Gas. Reports so far are claiming at least 2 dead in the protests today. I just read this article. I am not an emotional person, but I could almost feel tears welling up at what these people are going through. I really wish that our President would strongly support these people. Iran: Civilians fight back against gov't Iranians prepared for another violent day of confrontations between demonstrators and security forces on Friday, after riot police used tear-gas against hundreds of demonstrators who defied government warnings and swarmed the streets to commemorate the anniversary of a student massacre in 1999. According to an eye-witness speaking to ABC, two people were killed during protests Thursday. "The crowds were too large to contain - it seemed like everyone was out on the streets. I saw people parking their cars in the middle of the streets and joining the rest of us," another witness said Thursday. The demonstrations quickly turned grim. "The basiji were pulling people out of their cars and violently beating them, just because they were honking their horns in support of the protesters. But what really amazed me," said one protester in a phone interview from Teheran, "is that we stood by each other. Many of us selflessly helped our brothers and sisters out on the streets." The source elaborated: "At one point I could not see anything in front of me because the streets were filled with tear gas and smoke from burning garbage cans. Then I heard a loud scream coming from near where I was standing. The voice called out to us, 'Don't let them take our brothers and sisters.' "As I ran over with my brother, we saw five or six plainclothes security men pushing four young men and women into an unmarked van. The four had their hands tied behind their backs with wire, and one of the girls was hunched over and seemed to be unconscious. We went after those b**tards and ended up beating them with their own batons. When the cowards ran off, we carried the girl to her cousin's car. The cousin had also been detained and rescued. One of the other protesters who helped us said his uncle was a doctor and would help her. The young girl's cousin broke down in tears and tried to kiss our hands." "Before we left, we saw a group of people trying to set the unmarked van on fire." According to another witness from Thursday's rally, demonstrators were taking refuge in mosques. "Mullahs helped many frightened people who were running away from the security forces and tried to protect the people as best they could. When the basiji militiamen began to attack the people trying to get into one of the mosques, I saw a mullah pounding his fists into his chest in anger and screaming at the top of his lungs, 'Leave the children of God alone; be afraid of God.'" The angry dissident went on, "Ali Khameini [the Iranian supreme leader] and his followers are not Muslims. They have created their own religion that condones the shedding of innocent blood and worships murder." Another source said, "It was like a battle zone. The policemen would lower their tear gas guns and fire at the people. Everyone would scream and retreat behind a line of parked cars in the middle of the street." He also spoke of protesters helping each other amid the turmoil. "I saw an elderly woman and her son helping a complete stranger whose face was badly swollen and bruised. They told him that their house was nearby and they would take care of his injuries. It is hard for the people injured to get help elsewhere because now the embassies are not opening their doors for us and the hospitals are full of basijis. So the wounded are relying on the kindness and charity of others."