Losing LOTS of oil...

car is a 2005 Legacy GT w VF40/18G and 50/50 meth. Car has been on this tune for more than a year with no issues, no burning of oil. Drivability/power seems completely unaffected- no smoke cloud at all, even when getting on it hard at 19psi of boost in 3rd and 4th. I do not understand where the oil is going! Recently, my hose clamp slipped off the intercooler to throttle body and was leaking.

Found quite a bit of oil between TMIC and throttlebody. Car was down almost 2 qts of oil. Historically, car burned less than 1/2 a qt between 3K OCI, I had been using Pennzoil Platinum but switched to Castrol Edge since it was on sale for like $5 a qt. The Catrol Edge in the engine was very thin. I swapped back to Pennzoil Platinum earlier this week, my wife drove the car maybe 75 miles and it was already down 15-20% on the dipstick and my wife drives the car easy, so this pretty much nullifies the idea that the leaking intercooler piping caused the problem.

I will get a compression test tomorrow AM. I am desperately hoping I do not need a new bottom end but I will not at all be suprised to see a problem on #2.

Another possibilities I am considering are: a blocked PCV Valve causing high amount of blowby (perhaps wishful thinking- wouldn't it be wonderful if a $30 part fixes my oil problem- there is a guy on LegacyGT.com with similar mileage to my car that had his PCV valve go bad and he was pumping oil into the combustion chamber- ensuing gunk clogged one of his valves and it stuck open and bent a valve. It's possible this is what is going on- maybe the water in my meth injection is saving my ass!).

Questions:
1. Could a leaky intercooler pipe cause a oil blow by condition?
2. Is Castrol Edge crappy oil?
3. Is it possible to have a GOOD compression test and STILL have a bad ringland/ring?
4. Could turbo be taking a dump and leaking oil on the compressor side (is this even a realistic possibility?)
5. Any other comments/suggestions?

My plan of action is Compression test tomorrow AM and then replace the PCV valve. After that I am hoping I can win Megamillions/Powerball this week then drop the block off at Ball Engines...

 

1 - not 100% sure, but I wouldn't think so. Also, if any part of the intercooler piping system was leaking, you would not be hitting your peak 19psi.

2 - no idea...I run the shittiest (ie. cheapest) stuff I can find in the land yacht and I go 5000 miles and don't lose a drop of oil

3 - yes, quite possible. If you crack / break a ringland but it reseats itself in its former position, a compression test will read good. To ensure it's not ringland related, get a leak down test.

4 - probably not, as you said you haven't seen any oil clouds coming out of the rear. If your turbo was going out, you would definitely see smoke coming out the back.

5 - you said you just changed the oil...silly question, but did you tighten the oil pan bolt back down properly? Do you see anywhere in the bay where the oil's going? You don't just lose 2 qts of oil and not see anything...look closely, try and find the source, even if it's just a general location.


On a side note - thank you for using proper english / grammer...makes reading the posts and diagnosing problems much easier, 'no whatta meen, guise?'

 

Don't get stressed till you do a compression test. That will tell you if you have broken a ringland. Turbos usually leak on the exhaust side when they have blown a seal but not always. If its not a ringland go ahead and replace the PCV its cheap and one of the few times I would recommend throwing a part at something.

 

also, what's the car's mileage? I think you're supposed to replace to the PCV at the 60k mark

 

Questions:
1. Could a leaky intercooler pipe cause a oil blow by condition? Yes yes yes

2. Is Castrol Edge crappy oil? No

3. Is it possible to have a GOOD compression test and STILL have a bad ringland/ring? Yes but unlikely

4. Could turbo be taking a dump and leaking oil on the compressor side (is this even a realistic possibility?) Definately

5. Any other comments/suggestions? It's a Subaru....it'll burn oil :lol:. Pull the after MAF hose and peek inside the inlet and see how oily and gunky it may be. Blow by will end up in there on a stock car.

 

you guys are awesome... 3 responses lickety split (3 EDUCATED responses).. I have always read all 3 of your responses as a lurker all these years.


LOL- not the oil pan bolt. I know you have no idea of my wrenching ability so it makes sense to ask, but I have done a timing belt/water pump on a B5 A4- so I put myself at intermediate ability...

SlowWRX- are you affiliated with Ball Engines?

Car does have 60K miles so PCV valve + intcooler plumbing leak = missing oil. I so hope this is the case...

Just to clarify- I hit the 19psi boost AFTER I fixed the intercooler plumbing- spool seems normal no unusual/weird squirrel cage noises.

Stay tuned for leakdown test result late tomorrow AM...

 

How? If anything I would think it would cause less since you'd have less vacuum on the boost side? Also, would you even be able to hit peak boost with a busted connection?

Edit - peak boost hit after connection was fixed

 

Matt's uncle owns the shop

 

Leaky intercooler pipe will cause the turbo to have to spin HARDER. Too much and it'll pressurize so much at the turbo that it'll push oil out the seals. Seen it personally.

Dude was getting tuned. Had an Ebay TMIC on stock turbo. He failed to tell us that he lost the gaskets to the two flanges behind the turbo for the y pipe and decided to jbweld it. Needless to say it didn't hold. Car smoked and just didn't act consistant. We got to searching and when I ran my hand under the IC got covered in oil. Pulled it and dude bought STi TMIC right there. BAM car started making power and being consistent.

 

So maybe an easy solution

Witchunter injectors for $400
BNR VF40/20G or HTA68 ~$900 with core
Monkey tune $400?

P.S. I love the Sock Monkey Avatar. That would be the best Halloween costume.

 

Makes sense, just did a little research to show you the technical side of why.

In essence, a gap in the system (bad connection, cracked anything, etc.) will cause the overall system pressure (static pressure) to drop. As shown in the chart below, if you take something turning at the same RPM and drop the static from say 1" down to .5", the velocity and CFM of the blower will increase. Good call, Delette

 

I have a sock monkey costume already It's gonna rock come Halloween time. Hope it's cold out though.....that thing is HOT.

 

Kind of, thats my uncles shop. They build all my motors as well as quite a few for other guys on the site.

 

did not think of shaft play... That's reasonably easy to do as I replaced all the DP studs about a year ago and used plenty of antiseize. I should be able to move the DP enough to check turbo... now I just need to quit my job so I have time to work on my car.

And to think I first got rid of my Audi so I could get into "a reliable Subaru".

Stay stock- stay happy. LOL.

 

eh...

just get a V8

 

Test results in

Cylinder #4 113psi 45-50% leakdown
Cylinder #2 <120PSI (DID NOT EVEN BOTHER WITH LEAKDOWN)
Cylinder #3 & #1 both were 125-130psi with ~15% leakdown

bottom end spec for the Legacy is 141-165 psi +/- 7 psi between cylinders.

so even the passenger side pistons which were somewhat even compression wise and had OK-ish leakdown are real tired... Guess this is what you get buying a used modded car. I suspect the motor was probably 130-ish psi from the day I got it.

Weird thing is depsite high oil consumption plugs looked pretty good- maybe the meth actually saved my ass here a little bit becuase my heads are probably NOT fouled only because of the meth. Plugs had a little white residue on them but not terrible (usually indicates hot condition, right?- but I'm not sure if that's the case when meth is in the picture). Anyway all plugs were pretty clean which surprised the hell out of me especially in #4.

Now I have to decide what to do. If I buy a new STI shortblock and throw in some forged pistons, I am in for big money and I am in forever. I really love the car, great utility, it's a hoot to drive, I love the sleeper aspect- but I can not continue to afford more expenses (like when my 5 speed fails and I have to do a 6 speed swap- which would also coincide with my wife borrowing my chainsaw and plunging it deep into my groin area).

I have an 18 month old daughter and one income (where we used to have 2 incomes). The responsible part of me says dump it for what I owe plus some kind of down payment on something new with a warranty.

The sensible/responsible side of me says maybe it was fun while it lasted and I should buy a nice Hyundai/Kia with a 100K mile warranty.


I could always 2.5L hybrid my 2002WRX daily driver...

 

OOPS- Thanks to Ciccio and Adam at TopSpeed

They came in early to do my compression/leakdown test. THANKS GUYS!

 

Return car to 100% stock minus exhaust and a Topspeed tune for reliability. So that means a new stock block as well.

 

^^^ Agreed...I picked up a fresh 2.5 stock block w/ brand new OEM internals (installed by Adam at TS, btw) for less than a grand. If your heads are good, you can get away with just replacing a few pieces here and there and swapping everything over. Not sure if you're going to wrench yourself, but it could easily be done in a weekend...

If you wanna go big, both Nicad and myself are selling built short blocks :wiggle:

 

Good too meet you man, sorry to have give you bad news first thing in the morning like that....

Let me know if I can help anymore.

P.S. Please if you do sell the car don't buy a Kia...I don't care how good the warranty is

 

And have even more headaches from crap messing up?

 

Talked to my wife... we are over this car. And I am playing a game I can't afford to be in anymore with a young child and one income. When I bought it 2.5 years ago it was a different story.

I guess I will try and source a decent used STI bottom end get it running again. I love Topspeed and they are a super good shop I know the quality of their work is EXCELLENT, but I can not in good conscience spend $5K+ on a credit card right now with no good way to pay it off.

Our initial feelings of complete disgust say we will fix it and make sure it is running right ,sell, and get into something new with a warranty.

A have a migraine and am naseous. This car was supposed to be everything we both wanted... in 2 years I have spent $3K on the car (for basically no go fast mods) 2 clutch installs (first clutch burst), an oil cooler, struts, all this on a 60K mile car. Part of me thinks what could go next I should jkeep it, part of me says I have had enough, sell it and it will probably be a GREAT car for someone else since I have excised all the dmons. LOL.

 

It's been a sad sad sad trait for many people lately.

 

yup...fortunately for me (at this point in my life), I have no kids or family to support, but I spent over $20k in the last 1.5 years to end up turning my car back to stock and selling it. Sorry to hear your troubles, good luck w/ the outcome

 

I know the despair, seems my yard is littered with money pits and I've yet to find a mason far full of cash.

 

certified pre-owned...my 2009, 3k miles.... 6 year 100k mile warranty on powertrain

 

Time to sell man... I know how you feel... Just turned in my STI for a Legacy. Saves me $350+ per month... But sucks when I pull out into traffic with zero power..

 

It's hit and miss. When you make more power than stock and beat on the car, something will break at some point.

 

You beat on a stock car and something will break eventually.

 

Yup. You grandma it something will break. LOL It's a lose lose situation I'm afraid.

 

I try and go down the middle. I give her hell regularly but I don't drive it like that for every mile I drive.

 

Honestly, I rarely beat on it.. I have done a grand total of one mtn run in 2 years.

I do still have the bugeye but it has 180K on it and I am waiting for the entire car to fall apart. It still has the original 180K glass tranny and original clutch. I am ready to unload it too, as I know my bugeye is just getting ready to completely take a dump on me.

I can do a 2 for 1 deal... 2005 LGT and 2002 WRX for $16K as they sit.

I can not afford a major rebuild. What happens if I buy a junkyard STI shortblock and throw some forged pistons in it? Obviously there is some risk to this, but I already found a "guaranteed to run" shortblock for $750.

Of course mine runs too. LOL!

 

Exactly. But then again....that IS why we get these cars. Otherwise we would all be driving a Kia.

 

Like I said, I do beat on mine. I just don't do it constantly.

 

I'm aware of its heavy underpoweredness... I was just saying thats the trade off of getting something more budget friendly.

 

lol, i beat on my car like a 14 year old who discovered internet porn

 

one of the reasons i bought a subaru..my brother's friend has a bugeye with 185k miles. he beat the hell out of it at times, but never modified. it's finally dying though.

 

Well after 180K on the 2002 WRX 2.0L, I split the case yesterday to find the rear main bearing material separated from the steel back and the bore surface polished to a near mirror finish. There was very little scuff on the bores from the skirts and everything was within tolerance for a rebuild. Cleaned the pistons and did a dye check and they were perfect, but that was just out of curiosity as they will be shit canned. The spring rates on the valve springs were okay but will be trashed as well so it's easy to say that they are built with quality parts.
I think most of our problems could be attributed to the fact that some of our cars were bought used and not knowing how they were really driven or serviced is key to how dependable they really are. As I've said before and not to use Mark as an example, but when dealing with a modified car, you have to spend more money and time doing service if you want the car to last. To be honest I probably changed my oil at least every other week on average and filter once a month with the amount of hard driving and racing I did last year.

 

Well... it seems I have a path to a repaired car. Breel is gonna help me out on labor. It seems dumb to have the engine apart and not put in some forged pistons.

I am sourcing a brand new STI shortblock for a very nice price and strongly considering Mahle 4032s.

Interested to hear feedback on pistons- this is MY criteria for choosing forged pistons, so please keep my goals in mind before you tell me to go with CP's 2618 (or some other 2618)...
1. I will NOT accept having to warm the car up before I can drive it.
2. I do not want to have to check oil constantly, my wife drives it most of the time and will most likely rarely get the piston hot enough to seal up right...she is not the boost junkie I am
3. My wife will punch me in the face if I spend all this money and I have a bunch of piston slap on start up.

Now getting all that out of the way... LGT tranny is good to 350WHP maybe 400WHP. I will NEVER, EVER want to make more than 400WHP. The stock STI Eutectic pistons are probably good to 400WHP. However, the Mahle 4032 have to be SOME margin more detonation proof than the stock STI's. Ultimately, I think the Mahle will only help my resale down the road and/or afford me the ability to make a more reliable 350WHP than the stock STI pistons. I will consider other options that are drop-in 99.5 replacements that maintain stock CR and meet the 3 points above.


Honestly, I have not decided if I am going to keep the car or repair and sell, but I have decided to definitely repair and to do it right. Probably repair and keep it until I get the $ amount I am looking for- I will not be in a rush to sell or take a loss on it.

 

Get the Mahle ProSeries pistons, Eddies motor was very quiet with those pistons and they are much stronger. I'm not a fan of the 4032. The Legacy tranny is great, Eddie made 580whp on his so I think you will be fine at 400whp. Drop ins are not the way to go if you want the motor to last.

 

I have always been a huge fan of the CP pistons, and have never seen a failure from one. I can not say the same however about Mahle's.

A couple quick facts:

- Factory EJ257 PTW clearance is .0000 - . 0009 ... (yup thats right Zero clearance is considered ok by the factory.)

- Mahle drop ins are 4032 alloy and run .003 PTW clearance
- Mahle's are designed to use their own rings.

- CP drop ins are 2618 alloy and run .0035 PTW clearance
- CP also are designed to run the Factory rings.

Many people get wrapped up in piston slap noises and oil consumption. But honestly the 2618 piston expands about 13% more then the 4032 at its ideal operating temp and only runs a .0005 difference in PTW clearance. This means at true operating temp the PTW clearance on a CP piston will actually be less then the mahle... meaning quieter operation.

I could go on and on, and in the end both pistons will work... but I perfer the CP.

 

Nice title Mark. Will call you in a bit.