If I remember what I've read previously (not saying that it is fact, by any means), the group's leader (whose name escapes me at the moment) refuses to recognize Hamas as a "terrorist group" correct?
he defends his position as very vaguely and nebulously saying all terrorism is wrong. But you are correct in that he won't take up the specific position that Hamas is primarily an organisation of terrorists.
Emotionally, I am very much opposed to this. This is because intellectually, I know that the people involved in pushing this very much are concealing a broader agenda, and are not forthright about it. They are a cluster, for better or worse wrapping themselves in Islam, whose purpose is NOT ultimately coexistence outside of Islam. This group does want to stop Muslim in-fighting, but that does not make them moderate to me. but intellectually, i have 2 problems. 1 personal liberty is a cornerstone of the American way of life and few things are more personal than one's practice of spirituality. I am hesitant in principal to deny another their best effort to build their house to seek inner light with no more heavy reasoning than this particular group is full of nuts. but my second problem is more complicated. I think that if this is supposed to be an attempt to rub salt in the wound of The West's civilization (which I have no doubt that even assuming the best out of the people setting it up, the rest of the world would see it that way regardless), my first reaction is 'how can we completely trample their perceived victory as inconsequential to us? How can we take away any power they might feel from this act, and completely castrate any feelings of accomplishment of having it built? Should we not do as much as we can to marginalise these extremists? and what better way to do that than to look them dead in the eye and tauntingly ask "so what? BFD."
I believe that morally, we would all agree that that masque should not be built neat that site, yet 2 blocks away from ground zero. But in this world, money talks. I'm a Muslim for one, and I am against it. Why am I against it, because this masque would bring more chaos than it would bring peace. But like already seen on the news, there have been situation like these over and over in past years in America. Where Christians are against having masques being built in USA period. So the ground zero center crap is only being brought up because that site is very popular, and something tragic had happened there. But there are situations like these daily that happen in USA, they just don't get brought up on the news very often. my 2 cents. *waits for CoolRex to get all religious on me. *
I'm thinking someone should open an art gallery that only exhibits mohamed cartoons right across the street from this planned mosque
Broken I'm not getting religious on you. And you have much research to do....you say the Quaran is the same beliefs as the Bible? They are the same until after Abraham....then they stray apart. I'm not going to argue this with you.....you just like to pick fights with everyone. If you have ANY question you are ALWAYS welcome to PM me.
My biggest concern with the mosque being built would be the war it could start when someone burns it down soon after it is completed.
maybe a little off topic, but I lol'd http://allamusing.com/post/962447502/thoughts-on-islamic-center-ny also love one of the quotes...truth. "I wish we could wipe the world of religion, there are way too many important things to deal with and religion has done nothing but get in the way. All this stupid fighting takes place because a guy wrote a book and convinced someone that it was fact, who convinced someone it was fact, who convinced someone it was fact, and so on. Peer pressure + unexplained/misunderstood event = Religion. Hopefully God is upstairs laughing at our stupidity."
I think this article I read today sums up my thoughts on the "9/11 Mosque" perfectly. I agree 100% with pretty much everything said in this link. http://www.congregationbethtorah.org/congregation/pdf/20100814ThoughtsMosqueGroundZero.pdf "Having the Right to Do Something Doesn't Mean It's the Right Thing to Do"
to 07ltd: Mosque where 9-11 attackers met and planned in Germany; Whoever threw together that image was obviously trying to draw some type of intellectual equivalency of scale where none actually belongs. So there's no statue of gold, pedestals with names of terrorist enshrined in a parody of the Vietnam Memorial, but obviously the artist of that collage has no stake in anything if thats the lense he views the argument thru...
Observation: All 3 major religions have conquered others and been at war (either directly or indirectly) since their inception. It's how they spread and became "major" religions. Conclusion: Religion is teh best tr0ll evar, amirite?
we could just put all islamic people in internment camps as well and then nothing could happen again. that could work. In all honesty who cares, people all over the world deal with their shit being blown up and they go on with their lives. Let them open whatever they want. to everyone that is religious his/her "gods" typically want their believers to be tolerant and loving so you should do that and greet this with open arms. none of this is meant to say that 9/11 wasnt a sad day becasue it is indeed sad when people are killed for no reason. and in the imortal words of (ironically) War "why cant we be friends"
Yeah personally I could care less about this. It's a free country. But realistically I know how the majority of Americans will feel about this.....of course they will revolt all for the wrong reasons.......misinterpretation and misunderstanding.
This is worth a listen. Even if you don't like Keith Olberman he does manage to bring up some interesting points . http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/38731398#38731398
Thank you, sums up what I feel about it. In a time where everyone bitches about jobs/etc. I love how the hatred towards beliefs that are not your own, overcomes the idea that this community center will bring a lot of jobs during construction and after.
sorry, meant by political influence, not population and depending on the way the question is asked/website you go to, secularism could be number three.
Thought this was good. http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/p...sible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised.html
if you compare how the people talk when they defend the community center vs the people that say it shouldn't be allowed...like that guy...I honestly imagine that's what any dictator sounds like. Such senseless conclusions drawn in that. It takes no imagination at all to think that similar words and ideas were said and thought during times when people were killing others for being witches.
i completely disagree with you. While i think the nazi references may be a little over the top, i 100% agree with the jihad islamics as a radical political group as opposed to a religious group. I especially like the point he makes about any religion that uses violence to enforce their religion completely misses the point, or however he said it
i posted BKiller's link on FB, and my brother just responded with something that...well, take it for what it's worth
I was mostly just commenting on it as if you use a raised voice and spit out scare tactics. This is on both sides of anything. In regards to any argument against gays/religions/mexicans/etc, the opposition generally tries to say the world is gonna end when it comes to someone (gays/religion/mexicans) taking over their turf and moving in. I don't wanna get too involved with this, but this is just a friendly debate right? When it comes to human rights I just always side with giving everyone a chance. I just cringe when you can look at the comparison between someone saying "they can practice their religion, just not here" and "they can use the drinking fountain/restaurant/school, just not this one". I really feel strong enough to say it is no better than segregating whites/blacks. You never know, this could be looked back on in the future as one of those moments that something finally happened. Now you may say "well that's not even close", but I'm sure someone in the 50's said that as well when someone compared the issue of the rights given to white citizens to the rights of african americans. It's just different right? I know a lot of asshole catholics. I don't align with any religion now, but I went as far as confirmation with the catholic church. I remember most from my years of schooling, that the nuns/teachers were so quick to tell you that others were wrong when you questioned anything. I have little to no faith in any organized religion, so I guess we can agree there.
^^^ and on those points, I completely agree. I don't want to over dissect this, because I'm actually for them building it there, but I also think it's the most distasteful thing they can do right now. I finally got a chance to watch Mike's video of that Obermann (sp) guy, and while he speaks like a c-list actor overdramatizing every sentence, I don't disagree with what he has to say. That being said, I don't disagree with the London guy either. I'll be honest, I ddint' read this entire thread, but I did read what jason said about having the right to do something and doing the right thing. My argument isn't with islamic people, it's with the terrorist jihad islamic people. Unfortunately, those lines are grayed right now with the public due to mass ignorance. The problem with some of your statements from above is they are completely irrelevant. Even after terrorists had attacked many other nations across the world, the US was still tolerable and accepting. It's when it happens on our ground it changes things. This is unfortunate for the innocent muslims, as they're now victims of their faith. However, your examples above mentioned oppressed people fighting for their freedom...here we're talking about free people fighting for their oppression. Plain and simple, it's bad taste. While we have the freedom of expression and religion, there are still certain tactful things that just people would consider disrespectful to their fellow countryman and not do.
The heart of the matter is the very muslims who denounce jihad, recognize Israel, have a dog as a pet, and have indoor plumbing and use toilet paper are the minority within their religion.
They are not the Minority, they are the Majority. The problem is that the Majority is silent or talks quietly, while the Minority of Extremists talks constantly and screams to a point where they drown out their Majority opposition.
on the way to school this morning i saw something that made me immediately remember this thread. confederate flags on the interstate (granted i actually know the guy who put them up on his property). but i would imagine all of you who are 'hating' muslims, or feel the way you do about the mosque being built near ground zero, probably feel the exact same way a black person might feel when he/she sees a confederate flag ANYWHERE
Bwahahahahahaha. Regarding the mosque near ground zero, I say let them build it. But……. Across the street we should put a topless bar called “You Mecca Me Hot”. Next to that, a gay bar called “The Turban Cowboy”. Next to that, a pork-rib restaurant called “Iraq O’ Ribs”, and a check cashing center called “Iran out of Money". And a women's domestic abuse center named " Jihad it comin'? Now lets see... who's tolerant. LOL
I got that from my buddy Clay who right now is stationed in Iraq. Oh and at least use your login but we know you aren't that creative Princess.
And how does this make you any different from the people that you are protesting about? You people are so blind and so ignorant and so ready to attack another religion that you forget what your religion preaches. What a shame.
Nah...posted it when i was drunk. Didn't realize drew was logged in until after. Ninja-edited it and added in my name so delette would know who called him out.