So i was about to pull the trigger on Topspeed ACT clutch special...but then i spotted this clutch on nasioc installed for a pretty similar price and it sounded up my alley as well. Figured id give it go. So carbonetic has a relatively new clutch for scoobies, it sounded like a good set-up for my car so i figured i would jump in on the group buy. Original thread and some info here on the group buy thread...http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2011946 Picks from Carbonetic... As received by me... -My set-up and how it drives thus far.... My car is 2.0 wrx with vf39 and supporting mods, 300whp/310wtq. I am coming from an Exedy stage 1 Organic clutch with ACT 14lb flywheel that lasted 45k miles. I decided to opt for an OEM flywheel since this is my DD and it would help out from dead stops. -Engagement: Best described as "brisk". I have driven many high performance clutches, i hated the on-off switch many of them had like the exedy hyper single. The carbonetic unit is not an on-off switch. Certainly not as easy to drive as my exedy and act combo (as i expected), but leaps and bounds better then the likes of a exedy hyper single or what not. It engages in a quick yet controlled mannor. -Pedal pressure: Lighter then my exedy stage 1. Surprise...i wasnt expecting that. I would consider this a better dd clutch then my exedy because engagement doesn't take to big of a hit and pedal is a fair amount lighter. Would rather be caught in Atlanta stop and go traffic with less pedal pressure any day. -Shifting: What the hell, the trans feels like it shifts nicer and quicker? Did i get an extra set of syncro's 2nd-5th? Feels kinda like it. Placebo or is the lighter carbon blade putting less strain on the syncros? I dont know, feels like it shifts nicer to me though. All it has to do now is hold the power and last for a good 30k+(which i would be pissed if it didnt), and i will be a happy camper. Ill update this thread after i break her in a bit more and turn the wick up some. Look for more info in about a month or so.
Wish I had of known you were interested in the Carbonetic Single. I coule have beat that group buy price. All of the carbonetic clutches are very nice. I have had the twin in two cars now and have loved it in both.
Well damn, good note for the future. But they also had one in stock(only 1), apparently the next batch was 2-3 weeks out...and i needed something asap.
*UPDATE* -Well the clutch started slipping today. Ive driven it for 350 miles on 12psi, the first 250 was basically no boost(250 miles is the recommended break in period for this clutch). Did fine on 12 psi, turned it up to ~18 psi or 280whp/280wtq. Whats weird is that it held on the highway in 3rd and 4th gear pulls, yet when i would try and do a 1st-3rd run through the gears it would start to slip about 1k rpm into 3rd gear? Called Kiyo at Carbonetic, he suggested another 50 miles of break in and see if its still doing it. He said no serious harm was done if i got out of the gas when it started to slip, which i did, so we will see. Update pending 50 miles.
Well forget reusing the stock flywheel on the next time around. It'll be toasted. Lets hope the slipping stops but I doubt it will if it's already started. I've never had a clutch that stopped slipping once it started. Have you been doing LOTS of shifting with it?
Not the same clutch but was also a carbon single, put into a stg2 sti... slipped after 300miles. Called the manufacture and they said we were over powering it. Ghey... From the pictures it almost seem like there isn't much material to wear off before it hits the brass rivets.. is that just the pic or did you measure it?
Keep in mind the carbon has to be hot to work properly, with their twin disk clutchs you have to heat them up before you launch them...(which you aren't suppose to launch them since they are not for drag racing). Heat it up good and see if it slips then.
That's what I was noting with the flywheel going to be toast. Those rivets are very close to the surface. RETARDED.
I would agree on all cases, tons of shifting. Sorry didnt update wrxatl...gave it another 50 miles, adjusted the clutch pedal down a bit(doubt that would be relevant), and its back to holding and being a great driving clutch. Ran through all the gears and even 4th and it wasnt an issue. So as long as its doing what its doing now for 30k+ ill be happy. No worries on the flywheel, i got it cheappp No measurements were taken, although the brass did look like it was sitting pretty shallow.
Carbons need heat and a lot of clamping force to really work well under all conditions. We used to use the twins, but switched to triples on all the builds where these clutches make sense. Take Carbonetic's power holding claims grain of salt. We've seen the clutches slip at much much lower stated power levels. Keep us posted, because we were reluctant to try these clutches for this exact issue, even on mild builds.
Because carbon has a natural cushioning effect you can get away with higher clamping forces without excessive drivetrain shock. The higher clamping force also keeps the clutch from slipping when cold. Carbon isn't the solution for every application, however.
Well I will most certainly keep everyone updated how everything does. So no dragging on this clutch because it's carbon? Didn't know that, very good to know
Ok, i just cant get a read on this clutch. I can still make it slip if i shift aggressively and get back in the gas a hair quicker then i fully release the clutch. This is a crack pot theory, but since i have nothing else to go on and my exedy organic held with no problem and no questions driving it the same way(with a tq rating way less then i was making mind you)...im thinking each puck finger must be flexing or giving in some order or fasion so that only 2 or 3 of the pucks have actual real contact and pressure on the flywheel. I mean something has to be happening differently when i shift because i can brake boost it at peak tq in 3rd and everytime i have done it it held no problems. Hell if it cant hold a quick shift how is it supposed to be able to hold a launch? Another thing, was in 3rd rolling and got on it to make a light...slipped at the onset of peak tq. Ran it through similar conditions on the way home and everything held fine(im not messing with the quick shift thing anymore, going to talk to carbonetic some more, hoping the guy i speak with speaks better english this time). Disclaimer: Clutch was warm, and by warm i mean the car was sitting at 180+ oil temp's and had been driven on backroads up to that oil temp range(plenty of shifting). I also got one one my brothers to drive it who currently owns a c6 z06, and previously owned a stock clutch 35r evo and he made the stock clutch last 25+k miles(an accomplishment for a stock evo clutch on the power it was making) and it slipped with him on the quick shift thing the 2nd time he ran through the gears, the first time was no problem. So, until this gets sorted and a resolution gets drawn i cannot recommend this clutch. I regret not going with an act hd at this point, but you know what they say about hind sight.
It's the material. Carbon clutches are not good daily clutches. What tq are you making right now anyways?
Well it currently make 270-280wtq(17-18psi). On normal 21psi pump it made 310 wtq. Anyways, if the material is the actual reason, i wouldnt use a carbon clutch for any type of motorsports...ever. Btw carbonetics is marketing this clutch as a DD'able street/track clutch that "doesnt need to be warmed up". Maybe they accidently gave me the wrong pressure plate. The pedal does feel a bit lighter then my exedy organic stage 1.
Seriously doubt it. My car held 340 tq on OEM clutch just fine as well as another friend. I'm sorry you are having such issues......I'd be pissed if that clutch was slipping.....it's a lot of work to swap and install.
Right now it looks like carbonetics is looking like they want me to try and heavier PP, with only a measley chunk of change out of my pocket for labor. If im going in there again i would rather have a whole new clutch to work with. I dont know how tough those carbon disc's are or what kind of damage may have been done to it from the slipping. Still waiting to hear back from them.
We just had a customer with an ACT that had the pressure plate collapse and the clutch had somehow welded itself to the pressure plate. I will see if I can get pictures. Shame too as it only had about 6 or 7 months on the clutch. This was on a 2003 WRX with a built transmission. I forget which disk he had in there.
OK, so.... Carbonetic is sending me a new carbon disc and ACT HD "style" pressure plate. The original setup was an exedy stage 1 pressure plate. Obviously labor is still out of my pocket. The act hd plate is rated 33% higher pressure then stock where as the Stage 1 plate is something like 11% higher. Ill be making an appointment at my local shop for another install, which will prob be sometime next week, and will update how it goes.
Well its ver 6 sti trans with grp-n motor and trans mounts, and i dont drag her or bang the shit out of gears...and thats the only real way your going to pop a "sti" 5spd on a less tq'y 2.0. That or i find out the other way. I could install the clutch if i had access to my rents garage(where all my tools are) which i dont and wont for another couple months. That and if I installed it myself Carbonetic could claim an install error with no legit rebutle from myself (it would be my first clutch install). At this point getting my shop to install it again is as much insurance towards another slipping clutch as it is a convenience.
That makes sense. Well best luck buddy. Oh and I was totally just pulling your chains on the trans comment. I really hope it works for you....clutch issues can be more than aggravating.
Yeah, aggravating for sure. Its feels like playing russian roulette, sometimes you get off lucky, on the rare occasion and for no good reason you sometimes you dont.
Are yous till in Auburn? You could always ask Tom to help you one weekend and give you a receipt Where are you taking it if you are still in Auburn?
Im actually in atl working now. The shop i have doing my install is a local shop that normally charges about $450, and i think i can wiggle them down into the 300's just for pittys sake(even mid 4's to install a clutch is a pretty good deal). Ahh the days of college and having a good buddy who is "big wig" at multi million dollar facility...miss those days haha.
Ok, ill do a quick break down over the whole situation. The clutch i originally purchased and installed was using an exedy stage 1 pressure plate. I had a re occurring and sporadic issue where the clutch would slip during a quick shift on occasion. The clutch would hold at peak tq while in gear, hell even brake boosting, but not on the occasional quick shift. Very odd. When doing the quick shifts WOT, the clutch seemed to shutter when shifted hard, almost like the PP was not getting good overall pressure on the clutch disc. So, i was in talks with Carbonetic about the whole situation. At first they just wanted to send me a new uprated pressure plate. After pushing the matter further saying i would like a whole new clutch as the clutch disc i have now has seen some slipping and there would be no telling what condition it would be in, they sent me a new clutch disc and ACT HD pressure plate. For reference the exedy PP is 18% over stock pedal pressure and the ACT HD is 33% over pressure. I was very reserved about my clutch issues being resolved so quickly because i still had to pay for labor for the new clutch, and the previous set up with the Exedy PP was on the edge of being a bit to grabby of a clutch for a DD set-up. I was concerned with the higher pedal pressure from the ACT HD that it would then become even more grabby. It was completely the opposite. The ACT HD pressure plate has made the clutch all round a nicer engaging and driving clutch. From stops you now have a good amount more control of how the clutch engages. After the initial adjustment is made driving wise, i can easily drive this clutch with a passenger in the car and they would never know the difference. On the shifts the engagement is clean and quick. The obvious downside is the stiffer pedal. I have made the adjustment to the new pedal pressure, so now its normal to me. But i remember jumping in the car for the first time and thinking "yep, thats a stiffer pedal alright". Obviously if i could make my own clutch, i would hands down choose the pedal pressure of the Exedy, which i feel is perfect(not to heavy, and not to light). As far as driving manners go between the two pressure plates, for this clutch plate atleast, the ACT HD is superior...and i wouldnt go back to the Exedy even if it was not slipping because of that. Overall, I am very happy with clutch i have currently have as its drives nicer then the previous clutch and there is not hint or sign of slipping. I would have been extremely happy had this been the clutch that had been provided to me initially. *BTW*- I think its worth noting as to how tough this clutch disc material is. The clutch disc i pulled out of my car looked completely fine even after some quick shift 4th gear slips. Kiyo was telling me that these carbon clutch discs are very tough, and thats why they last so long, but i was very surprised. I have pics of the new set-up and of the old clutch disc. Remind me to upload them if anyone wants to see them.