With the largest ethnic minority of Coptic Christians in the area, a communications network only about 10 years behind most 1st tier nations, lots of US weapons and arms, and a proximity to several nations that think a perfectly acceptable foreign policy towards a nation is eradication, what do you think its heading for?
i'm thinking a puppet. because, despite the fact that the US probably supports the arguments of Egypt's people, they won't step up and show it for tons of reasons (Obama's lack of foreign policy, the fact all our forces are spread thin elsewhere, etc). but i think maybe covertly the US will work with an ally or someone else to make sure a puppet gets put in place. but, it won't really change anything. my feelings on the middle east are that everything will be Christian v. Muslim. PERIOD and there is nothing any nation outside of the middle east can do to stop that. MUCH LESS any country with a majority Christians or Muslims for fear of bias. It has been for years, and will continue to be a hotbed for another millennia. oh wait the world is going to end in a year and half.
I have family through marriage (christians) that moved out of Jordan because they didn't want their children to marry muslims. Some of the family/friends of family that were actually born and have lived over there for many years have worse opinions than some random redneck from the south. (Although the younger family members that lived mostly in the US are much more tolerant).
I think the US is making a huge mistake pushing for "Democracy" in Egypt. We already threw Mubarak under the bus, he has agreed to not run for election next time, which means that the Muslim Brotherhood will usurp power. They are saying today that they are not interested in leading the government, but that is just a ruse to mislead the West. Once the Muslim Brotherhood takes power, say goodbye to the Coptic Christian Minority, and the Cold Peace between Egypt and Israel. It will be bad for everyone in the region. It amazes me that this Obama Administration did nothing when thousands took to the street in Iran (one of our biggest enemies) demanding freedom from the Mullahs. The US barely even lent moral support at that time. Yet, when an Ally nation has the same thing happen, the Obama Admin rushes to throw the president under the bus, and demand that people listen to the protesters. Jordan at this current time seems like the perfect model of what the US should be demanding in regards to the protests. Jordan isn't demanding that the King who has ruled for at least two decades step down. He fired his entire cabinet yesterday and demanded that the replacements enact reforms taking what the people are demanding into account. It seems to be the correct balance. Let the King who is pro-West stay in power, and continue controlling the country while the lower cabinet gets a serious reshuffle to satisfy the people. The US should have supported Mubarak, but put heavy pressure on him to enact reforms that his people demand, instead of the US pushing for Democratic elections that will bring a Muslim Extremist group to power.
I agree, at least in the fact that the US should stop wasting money, on countries that hate us. No matter how much money we spend in Muslim countries, they continue to bash us in their own language, while thanking us in English for the aid. It needs to stop. Aid should only be provided to countries that share our values, and respect the help we provide. There are many countries that aid should be cut to, outside of the Middle East and North Africa. If you really don't give a crap, why do you feel the need to reply in this thread?
Don't give crap what happens to Egypt as it's their own doing. Then put in my $0.02 about US involvement. And it's not just Muslim countries......we are everywhere wasting money.
you can't blame teddy roosevelt, he tried ('walk softly and carry a big stick'). but you can blame our 'allies' from pre-WWII to current day. the US is in a perpetual lose-lose or catch-22 if you will. we're damned if we do and damned if we don't someone will always bitch if we don't step up and intervene because we have the power to make a difference, but as soon as we do we are viewed as sticking our nose where it doesn't belong. personally i think we should stay out of everything, go back to the roosevelt days. just have to walk that thin line of not doing anything militarily the world over, while still maintaining good trade relations. unfortunately, i think we've pigeon-holed ourselves and that isn't possible.
It's easy for those that have lived in a democratic society there entire lives to sit back and say that somebody else should live under a dictator because you are comfortable with it. I understand that we have to deal with people we don't agree with in order to create/keep stability. However, in these oppressed societies once the people revolt and demand freedom who are we to say no? In fact, who are we to say anything? Threw Mubarak under the bus? I think we just stood by while his people threw him under the bus and backed it up a few times. Damned if you do damned if you don't. The original reaction to these protests and the ones in Iran weren't that much different. 2-3 days in was a different story.
i'm not comfortable with it, BUT on the same hand you have to realize maybe all those other countries (and their citizens) view Democracy how we view/ed communism, as a plague spreading across the world and being forced upon unwilling nations. the world's problem is religion, NOT politics. if you got rid of politics guess what, there would still be the SAME bickering and differences (oh wait, that is how the world was milinnia ago, and there was plenty of fighting then as well). like i said earlier, regardless of what the US does or doesn't do and regardless of what ANY other country does or doesn't do there will still be issues in the middle east. as long as there are Muslims and there are Christians there will be fighting. PERIOD
I agree with that. If this was a communist regime or a country like Venezuela would we take sides? Would we send representatives to talk to the leaders on both sides? On another note I haven't seen any American flags being burned in Egypt yet.... and that is a first for me. I'm used to seeing just about any crowd in the Middle East on camera burning American flags amongst other things. Your brother just got married? Burn an American flag!
what happens in egypt isnt clear (to anybody including the egyptians). what will happen most likely is the fall of mabarak followed by some power sharing government which will then shake out again. at least once and probably more than once. unlike many ME countries, egypt is not hard core islamic. true there are a good number of hard core islamic folks there. after all osama's doctor al zawahiri was one such person and his group, islamic jihad assassinated sadat. but they currently dont have the backing of all of the people. there are various groups. many want more freedom and a less draconian government as opposed to a pure islamic state. it is possible that egypt will end up with a hard core islamic government. there are lots of 'players' in the world that wouldnt mind this since it will weaken the west and especially the US. what obama or any other outside influence could do is limited. whats happening is a general popular uprising, although there are many disparate factions in the uprising. the only way to have one side end up in control would be to have the support of the army, controlled by someone at the top. right now it doesnt look like such a person exists. and the army seems somewhat disinclined to attack the citizens. if such a person does appear, then perhaps deals can be made with that person, though of course the deals might not be made with the US. obama's great failing and his one great opportunity as i see it that he missed, is to somehow put energy independence as the top priority of his administration. its a economic and strategic weakness of this country that makes events in the middle east have serious impacts on this country. as a bucket of oil keeps going up and up, this becomes more and more evident. he could have scored some early points by doing this and then he could have had more traction to get some of his more socialist programs through without destroying his party and their domination of congress. the good side of this is of course, he weakened his party so he wont be able to push through any of the more leftist policies. the bad part though is that if the middle east descends into some sort of apocalypse we will be pulled in by our dependence on the region's oil and our relationship with israel. we are (probably) living in interesting times.
the problem isn't that there is a hard-core islamist element in egypt. its that those elements don't need a majority to be MAJORLY disruptive to everyone else. Nobody should be surprised at the current administration's reaction to this. Before this, what was that South American country that its parliment ordered the military to remove their president for trying to pass a law allowing him to remain in power against their current constitution. The Obama administration sided with the would-be dictator calling it a military coup (even though the military didn't take power), and cut off aid to that country. I can't remember which one.... but thats the roadmap to expect the Obama administration for the remainder of his term.
i belatedly realised something as i reviewed some more material and the material i've already gone thru... more than 3/4 of the protest signs and such are written in English instead of Arabic. Implications...
Did I hear Mubarak was stepping down today? Also help me answer this question, and maybe think yourselves: if religion is the problem, is prayer the answer? Obviously I mean in any case, not just Egypt or the middle east.
Hell he's been saying that since the rumors of ill health from earlier this year. Leadership change has been a concern for quite sometime. I think this is why there is a perceived inaction from the State Dept let alone Ears Obama.
It stinks of a military coup. A coup that I think the US government persuaded the military to pull off. Last I read, a military council will rule till the elections.
man this all went into motion within the space of a couple hours. looks like we wont have a complete timeline til the dust settles.
Where exactly did that letter come from? It's written in an style of English akin to our country, not abroad.
Still going on... Article May want to modify the title to include Algeria, as we know what's up w/ Egypt now
No clue...it's from Anonymous. Agreed on the origin, however, it's been shown that there are members of Anon from all over the world. It's essentially the Robin Hood of the virtual age, but instead of stealing gold for the poor, they're presenting knowledge to the ignorant. I hope they continue their trolling in a manor of valor and don't cross the monetary line.
oh yeah i would definitely say that letter is American in origin. but whatever it takes. its pretty awesome to see the use of facebook/social networking in the spread of dissent in Egypt.