So, as you all know I sold my TL about a month ago. I told the buyer that the title was with the bank as I had a lien on it and when I paid the loan off, he'd get the title. He had no problem with this and we conducted our business. In the time it took for the bank to send me the title, the car was totaled. We both have a bill of sale and the transaction was complete. I asked how he was enjoying the car and this was the reply: I told him that sucks and hope he gets it squared away. I never replied offering any sort of help because, well, the transaction was complete. Today, he sent me this email: To me, I've got nothing to do with this. However, it would suck to be in this situation. He's got the Bill of Sale, and now the signed title. Regardless of if it was never registered in his name, that should be enough to get the girls insurance company to cut him a check. I'm still undecided on what I want to do, but if I choose to help him, I'm definitely going to have a lawyer look over EVERYTHING, along with request/demand a % of the insurance check as this is taking up my time to get this situation handled. A friend suggested this: Again, ever since meeting him, I got an odd vibe/feeling about it. I think he slipped up and sent me an email from his work email address, which shows he's in the NAVY. However, from what I remember in meeting him, he was definitely NOT in the NAVY. Unless he's a civilian contractor. So the question is. What would you do in this situation?
I saw this on your FB status recently and I would try to distance myself as much as I could from this situation. However, you might not be able to do that as much as you'd like so get EVERYTHING in writing and document it to the nth degree! If you can get his policy number, do that and call the insurance company directly to see what they have to say about it all. Plus do all the stuff your friend recommended as well.
Personally, I would not get involved on the level he describes and would not invest in a lawyer. Politely explain that you will help in anyway that allows him to be paid directly.
Cash the check, put it in your bank- win win for you. Addition: Seriously, if this is legit I feel bad for him- but bottom line is that it isn't your problem.
the claim he filed is... ungh this is ridiculous. Okay, the adverse party, the 20-yo is covered by insurance; if its over a certain amount, usually by law must co-endorse a settlement check to the claiming party and the financially associated party. Same thing with house insurance. If the other insurance offer to 'total out' a vehicle, they will be making an offer to take ownership of the vehicle. If you have the title, then obviously this other guy can't accept the offer because legally he can't transfer ownership without that title (unless he goes thru lots of legal hoops to get a new bonded title without your help). So the other ins co will cut a check contingent upon him surrendering the vehicle to them. If you were still going to honor your original agreement, have you sent him the title already? Because as long as he has that, he can unwravel everything himself even if a claims check gets endorsed to you. If they do end up sending you a check, you can use it to call the insurance company that wrote it, speak to the adjuster, and have it cancelled. there shouldn't be any point where funds have to pass thru you.
He has the title. I sent him an email stating I had overnighted it to him. At that point, I asked him how he was enjoying the car and he replied with he's waiting to hear from an insurance adjuster on whether or not it's totaled. So I had already shipped the title when he told me that.
I'm saying don't get involved as he stated, he bought your car so offer something. Don't just say cya wouldn't wanna be ya.
Since he has the title, as long as its not officially totaled yet, all he has to do is go pay his taxes on it and get the title switched. By the time he hears anything from the insurance, the car will already be in his name and youll have zero involvement with any of this.
He owns the car....you have a bill of sale stating such. Here's what I did for the Subaru. I got my money. Since they had to create a salvaged title for the car I was in a situation like you where the new owner/s got the car before I got the title. Since I did not trust one of the parties involved what I did was made a photo-copy of the title with my signature on the back of the title proving that I signed a title and sent it to him. I still have that photo to this day. However lets say that title was lost. You are still under law obligated to do whatever it takes to retrieve a valid title for the new owner. That's were it gets sticky. The new owner of the TL needs to pay the taxes that he would've owed anyways and get that title transferred. This is the biggest thing I hate about private selling a car. Hard to ensure that the new owner transfers the title. I think insurance companies should not provide coverage at all until they have proof that the owner has the title or the lien holder has it. Bottom line is do what it takes to get him noted as full owner title wise. Absolutely ZERO money should come to or through you. You are done with anything regarding money.
Another thing I did to essentially cover my ass was to have the transaction and bill of sale notarized at my bank when I deposited the check.
To be honest, I got "an odd vibe/feeling about it" when I noticed how fast you sold it for the asking price, or close to the asking price. (assuming)
I didn't think you sold it all that quickly. And as far as price, it is a rarity to find a TL with the manual. I know we would pay a premium if we needed to to get the third pedal in any vehicle we were considering...... just sayin'- not all used cars are the same animals.
See if your insurance will provide you advice on the situation. Though it has nothing to do with you or them as far as a claim goes, they will be aware of how things work, how the scams work, and how to protect you, their customer.
a good friend of mine has 2 parents who are both in the insurance...industry. they say I have absolutely nothing to do with this situation and to tell him I can't help him. That's been my take from the get go
My sister's husband is some big wig for State Farm up in Mass. she asked him for me and he is a blunt dude, he pretty much said to tell him to go pack sand. If he is scamming something then he brings you into the situation and you could face legal penalties if it is a scam.
Bill of sale + Bank (leinholder) & Insurance talking together = Nothing to do with you. If anything, the insurance company should talk to the bank, not you. The help I would offer is their phone number. Feel bad for the guy if he is legit, but if not you have to cover your ass.
not sure my reply would have been as nice. as this is cut and dry a scam to me. my reply would have simply been: fuck off, or no reply at all. i've sold too many cars to know when someone is trying to take advantage of you. and i've been in situations where i've offered advice/helped the buyer way more than i should have post-sale. no more mr. nice guy
something told me it was a scam almost from the time I met him. But the money was legit and he said he had all kinds of plans for the car, so I still went through with it.
Maybe I'm naive but how would he be scamming you? If the car is totaled how can you be sure this is a scam?
He's not scamming me, he's committing insurance fraud. He buys the car for less than insurance would pay out. 3 weeks later, his friend, whom he claims to not know, "loses control of her car, hitting him", totaling the car. They collect the insurance check and have instant profit. I'm thinking about 5k in profit, I don't know. It's a known scam out there, and it's also a felony. Now at the same time, parts of me thinks it was a legit transaction, and he's got SHITTY luck. However, my transaction is done, the bill of sale says sold as is, and no refunds, buy-backs, or anything else.
wow people. Guy sounds like he had shitty luck who is trying to get some help from Matt. In this case he may need Matt to back up all the given information to insurance claims, nothing more. He may not even need Matt at all, but it's nice to have Matt on his side, as a standby in case insurance tries to play a roll of not paying out for w.e. reason. What is this world turning into.
Everybody needs a Matt or 2 on their side! What is this world coming to? If you're decent and helpful to strangers they see that as an invitation to take advantage of you. It's been that way, nothing new.
You're right. But this wasn't just some stranger, this was a guy who conducted business with him, who helped him sell the car. The argument that the business was finished and Matt is done is of course very valid. But sometimes business plans take a wrong turn, and that's when the true you comes out. I made few friends this way. Where I sold, or bought something, and because the plan didn't fully work the first time and we had to stay in touch, is why we became very good friends. Morals, whatever happened to that, is something very few people have these days in my opinion. Sad.
I understand your disappointment in the pessimism, T And I would share it if I didn't work deep in the industry. With a bill of sale, and title in hand, I know this guy should have no need or interest for people to pass any kind of money thru someone else's hands. If Matt really felt morally encumbered, there's a few things he could do to independantly verify the situation. he could ask to see pictures of the wreckage. a vehicle damaged bad enough to be totaled out in a wreck will have a police report generated if it happened on a public road, he could ask for the municipality and report number. But more telling than that is this: the other guy should be chomping at the bit to show him all this to explain/justify his need for help, if he needed it. (which he doesn't with a notorised BOS and title in hand...) I don't think its fraud in this case, myself. I just think its not his problem.
What morals are you talking about? The guy has a notorized bill of sale, and matt has already signed the title and sent it to him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the guy has to do is register the car in his name to get the check made out to him.
The morals I'm talking about is, at least offer to be a standby till the situation is resolved, instead of turning your back and saying, hey good luck, it's your problem, I hope you get it resolved, I got my money from you, now I could care less about the situation you're in.
I understand that, but money does not need to go through him. If it was me, I would offer him my banks phone number and the extension for the person who handled the transaction. The guy could give that information to his insurance agent. That way you help the guy, but no money through you and the legal junk could be handled by the bank and insurance.
i just hope in my round-about way, i did successfully communicate I see the reasoning behind your view...
I totally agree on the money part. Maybe I should have been more specific. I was referring to just being a standby in which you might be some sort of assistance without you being physically involved. I'm glad we came to an agreement of some sort. Of course. I'm not trying to pick sides here, Bias is not my subject. I see the reasoning behind your, and everyone views too.
I have not seen pictures of the car. I have not asked for pictures of the car. I've stated my intentions with him based off the advice of friends who are in the insurance business. They're not your average agent behind a desk. They are in the claims business and deal with this type of stuff day in and day out. Not the fraud per se, but the issues of claims. If it absolutely comes down to he cannot get any sort of resolution from the insurance company, then I may change my position and attempt to help him. However, he's got all the paperwork necessary to get the car legally put into his name so that the insurance company can get a check cut to him. Yes, we conducted business, but I never met the man prior to his wanting to buy my car. To me, he's a stranger, and as much as I'd like to trust that he's a stand up guy, I just can't. There are other factors that I've intentionally left out that are tossing up some red flags to me. Also, I believe if it were on the up and up, the insurance company handling this situation would have contacted me by now. I have not received any form of contact from them. He's got my phone number and can give it to them, he's also got my email and can give it to them.
I've got the same views as Trancetto. All he asked was "hey, if the check happens to come to you can you give it to me?" Although now I see where everyone is coming from, what's Matt going to do, keep it? Even though we know the money SHOULDN'T go to Matt anyways, it's sad when we live in a day and age people's first reaction to someone asking for help is that they are being scammed.
Legally, the car is his. Regardless of if it's not registered yet, the car is/was his. Everyone has a grace period to register the car for situations such as the title being still in the hands of the bank. I was truthful when I told him it's a shitty situation and that I was sorry he's going through with it. I think he may have screwed up and sent me an email from a navy.mil email address. I had that email run through someone who is still active in the navy, and they couldn't verify he was even in the Navy. The guy found 2 people matching his first and last name in the navy, but neither of them had his middle initial. They are also both stationed in different parts of the country than he is 'stationed'. Granted the address book he was accessing wasn't a complete navy address book, but he was not listed in the list. Maybe I'll call my uncle who is a retired Navy JAG and see if he has any access still. See if he can dig up any more information.
Unfortunately looking someone up on global (Navy email server) is pretty accurate. The only Marines we cannot look up in our system are ones who are on a completely different server i.e. Marines who are instructors at naval school houses are not on my global, it is the same for the Navy so he would have to be attached to a unit not on the server also even if he was a civilian attached to the unit he would still be on the server. Our Tech Reps from bell helicopter and P3 contractors are on our servers. Just a little more info for you on the NMCI/Microsoft Exchange email servers.