2013 STI Rotated Turbo Project

Doesn't do it every-time you idle, and 0 smoke under boost or under non-boost load just cruising. We all know the history of this motor so I highly doubt it's that plus it didn't do it before that i'm aware of when I had the stage2 setup on and vf48 even after building the motor

 

why not pick up the phone and call precision? They are very nice people and always answered all of my questions when I called.

 

you see on the oil inlet with the red cap.....you see the step in the inlet? That is the restrictor.

 

probably because i hate talking on the phone and do that as a last resort in all cases LOL

nah i like to follow the chain of accountability.
bought it through TSM, they've bought / installed dozens of these.
they got it from ETS, who has sold / packaged probably hundreds or thousands of these
ETS got it from the manufacturer who, well, "ought to know best"

i'll start at the top and work my way down. I used ETS's oil drain solution too and put my stock oil drain tube back in taking the tigwerks AN convert out. If the drain is an issue, you'd think others would have noticed by now.

steven just had my turbo off reclocking it to make things all fit / align better. I'm sure he would have mentioned it since I asked him to eyeball everything as he went to make sure I didn't nerf it up.

 

yeah and all that was left as-is. I bolted my oil supply right on top with the fitting ETS provided.

 

My only thought might be the PCV system, I'm not sure of your final setup, but if its not getting vacuum or venting properly it could be pushing oil past some seals.

 

blah both my valve cover equalizers and my main crankcase vent are VTA currently.
doug said I could run hoses from their outlets down to "around" the air filter, and whenever they spew anything the induction will just grab it so it won't spray around.
Although, i've had absolutely 0 anything (but air of course) come out of either one under the hood, even at 22psi.

 

both of those were terminating in the stock turbo inlet tube, so vacuum, but no positive pressure.

 

well the occasional idle smoke might not have been the turbo after all.
pulling in to the house last night i noticed my oil pressure was ~10psi which is absurdly low. It only dropped to that as I was pulling into the driveway and was @ idle.
I also noticed a ticking as i pulled into the garage and could hear the car better from the echo on the walls.
I instantly stopped it, let it cool off and checked the oil ( i had changed it yesterday)
it's perfect level, no issues there.
went to bed so I wouldn't make rash decisions while emotionally charged and woke up this morning to investigate.

motor definitely has metal on metal going on where it shouldn't be. something has let go. it will run, but obviously shouldn't be.

well its been fun, for two days.

 

Video of the noise?

 

yeah i'll get one in a minute i'm trying not to wake up my lovely pregnant wife again with this thing, it IS saturday lol.

it's something loose and having play in it, somewhere down in the rotating assembly. as you slowly rev it will get louder / quieter as the motors rotation increases or decreases. when you rev it quick and let off quick so it has "slack" as it spins back down you can REALLY hear it.

 

Doesn't sound something like this I hope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHMgsuzvg7Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

ok that's a good example, it's not nearly that loud no but it follows rev's like that and varies like that.
probably whatever "that" was, but not as bad yet.

fml

 

That was rod knock.

 

2618 mahle 99.75mm, king bearings and scat rods just as a recap.
probably a spun bearing allowing the rod to smack the case :|

can we all weep together? is that allowed?

 

did they give you your clearances from the build?

Also screw the video, if you think its rod knock every time that oil pump spins you just push any bearing flakes into the your heads, cam gears, turbo.

Drain the oil through a cheese cloth or something and look for pieces or shimmer swirls.

After that, refill if you feel its warranted and make a video if you want.

If it is a bearing see what Ball will do, I was surprised by a call this week from the people who build my motor that lasted a day and he offered to replace my parts that were damaged. At this point any little bit helps.

It does sound like a rod bearing to me, mine varied in volume and was sometimes completely inaudible, most noticeable time was driving when it was silent and letting off the throttle it would chatter.

From my experience, if you still have some bearing left, you might save the rods as the face won't get destroyed and they won't get as hot.
STI AVCS exhaust gears are a PITA to rebuild, Outfront has a jig/ procedure if need be, Crank work or a new crank, bearings, a thorough cleaning of everything, Oil heat exchanger, and turbo rebuild could have you back on the road.

 

i'm sure i could ask andrew, i never did when I got it from them no.

 

how is vicky's outfront SB holding up? what did she pay like 3500$ for that?

 

That sucks bro....I know the feeling all to well. Sorry to hear

 

Its doing. it was $3700 because she got the closed deck. I don't know the mileage she's put on it, but she either drives like a grandma or a bat outa hell.

She had about 22 revisions to her etune... so 66 pulls at least. and dyno'd it twice.

I worry about it more than her. It was a beautiful motor when we got it and runs great... enough so that I bought my motor from them too, but it only lasted that one day, mostly due to the heads not being cleaned, but as I have cracked the cases apart I have found more concerning things.


John from Outfront called me Thursday in an attempt to clear the air and do right by me by offering to exchange my parts out (its not a rebuild but it helps) He wants the crank, oil pump, and bearings. I'd love to measure it all before sending it back but it really wouldn't do me any good at this point.

So needless to say Vicky's motor is doing fine, I just wonder if there is anything underlying going on. She was wanting an e85 tune which would put the rods at there threshold, I'm glad she's ditched that idea.

 

or i could just sell my soul, then my house, and get a cosworth longblock.
lol

 

Dude that totally blows...you haven't even had time to enjoy the dang thing. Hoping it's not the bearings or something requiring a tear down. This really just sucks.

 

Meh, hopefully the parts are still useable. You're still not sure its a bearing... that still doesn't explain the smoke.

How's the misses taking it? Mine hates my car, I can't remove the memories but I'm hoping that selling the spare parts and handing her a wad of cash and the keys to go take a joy ride will change her tune... if that day comes.

 

she's a loving, understanding wife who knows that I didn't intend for this to happen obviously, but she's not thrilled that it did.

oh bearing or not the motors got to come out, be torn down and see whats wrong. many many hours of labor, and i need to buy a daily driver ASAP.
If anyone has something for 2k or less let me know. Preferably something you wouldn't mind putting a car seat in just in case i'm still dealing with this in july

 

I have been in your shoes. One of the reasons I don't have a Subaru right now.

I ended up picking up a Jesus Chrylser mini van for 700. Best vehicle purchase I ever made. Lasted me a year while I got my car sorted and got twice as much as I paid for it when I was done with it.

 

ya i need to find me a chrysler minivan that's a solid plan.

i've seen too many properly built subaru's lasting a long long time at high power to just give up. something messed up, we'll fix it, and regroup.
i should have never given up my daily driver to begin with so that was my fault. i need to correct that and it will remove the anxiety associated with this being my only vehicle for work and such.

 

somebody needs to buy that GD turbo kit i don't need too...

 

LOL...I bought a pristine 1996 Cadillac Fleetwood for $500 and traded it in on my wife's car for $1k when all said and done. My advice would be look for a truck or minivan. Seems like you can find american made minivans for the cheap and they are easy to work on with parts galore. Good luck man and hope you get it all sorted out.

 

damn dude that really blows. Always have a back up car when modding a subaru. Search craigslit every 30 minutes and you will find a deal but be prepared to act on it immediately. I've bought several within an hour of them being listed.

 

TSM RR1 and Cosworth SB are about the same price. They both have about the same reputation too, honestly.
Justins (other justin) car is making 632 or something crazy on C85 with a GTX3582 ams kit on an RR1 and he's driving it around all the time.
We all know about cosworth.

I dunno I need to get everything out / apart, working on that now. 9pm!
gotta stay positive, it's my way man, i refuse to get down or be gotten down. when something or someone controls how you feel, you've lost big time.

andrew and I will discuss once I get it out and we tear it down I guess. go from there. might do valves / cams while I got it out.
god steve is gonna kill me we've tuned this thing twice lol

 

Did you drain the oil and check for chunks?

I'll have my MPS 2.34L destroked motor back soon and am putting it up for sale.
Closed deck
Htuff rods
JE pistons
9000rpm redline... nice fat powerband for that big turbo. lol

 

lol really, the outfront block one?

 

I wouldnt buy that motor.....get one with a better reputation.

I have been in the same boat as you before man.....my wife was very close to leaving me due to the constant issues with my Subaru after I built it first....freaking took me 5 months before I got it ironed out.

My biggest problem was the same thing as yours....mine was also my DD. NEVER again will I have a car like that without having a good DD!

Best of luck man...maybe it's something simple. I'm with JustinV....drain that oil ASAP and see if you see bearing material before you start tearing anything out.

 

Yeah I sent it back and Dom tore it down, said the one piston didn't move much because it had more oil in the rings, he clean up the cases a bit more so they look less used (all closed decks are used... some more than others.)

I just realized I'm not going to see its potential, I hopefully start my doctorate next year, and have parts to rebuild my outfront motor here, so I have been buying tools to build my own block.

I spun the rod bearing in June, got the outfront motor running/ and failing in August, and broke down and bought a DD in September before school started. We spent more on the DD than anticipated but are glad we did. A 4cyl 2WD Toyota Tacoma gets me everywhere I am going these days. Its too practical and in great shape to ever get rid of. Hope something turns up quick for you and its decent.

I saw a dude use a pantyhose to strain the oil. Good idea and cheap if you don't already have any around the house.

 

yesterday i started it for a quick second to pull it up onto my ramps to start tearing it all out.
i noticed that the sound is extremely audible under no load, but when i was slipping the clutch to roll it up onto my ramps the sound would stop as you put load on the motor.
almost HAS to be a bearing issue based on that, or somehow slack is allowing the rod to smack the case inside somewhere

 

That noise comes from the rod on the journal, like a hoola hoop on a pole any slack and they start hitting each other, the bearing being gone allows that space for the sound to resonate. Your case should be fine, crank may have scratches from bearing material, and rod may have gotten hot depending on how much bearing is left to buffer it from the crank.

If you want you can pull the oil pan and baffle and usually just push on the big end of the rods, 1 or more will move letting you know which bearing has failed... which unfortunately it sounds like.

 

my magnetic drain plug just now.
forget filtering the oil LOL, there it is right there.

 

motors already out............

 

What is it? can't think of too much in there that'd be magnetic.

Bearings are copper aluminum and brass or some combination of them.

Sorry man, hope you get it sorted quickly.

Did you ever run an inline filter to the turbo? If not are Precisions rebuildable?

 

no inline filter,
turbo sounded fine though right before i shut it off. still spins / sounds perfect now too that it's off.

 

so looks like at the very minimum i'll need an oil cooler and pan since you never re use those after a metal incident in the oil like this.

i think i found the rod bearing that failed, theres slack in this one rod left to right that clearly shouldn't be there.
rod might still be good though, no visible heat damage anywhere around it.

 

I have my opinions...but honestly this just sucks. I hope you get it sorted out soon so you can enjoy your car. Ultimately...that is what matters at the end of the day.

 

yeah... man it was fast as i would want heh.

since i have it apart might as well do cams / headwork and really get up there. no reason not to now. depends on how much CRAP i have to do to get this thing back together RIGHT and solid.

 

pretty proud of myself though, refuse to be negative, refuse.

had it out of the car and down to a longblock in 5hr.

beast mode.

 

Yeah after the first time it's stupid easy to snatch that motor out. Best of luck man....is this something that Ball Engine is going to honor or what?

 

Don't get down, get even!!!

What are you thinking for heads?


I'm doing my 3rd set all of which have been different
1st: +1mm valves, higher seat load since less material to distribute it across, can also get hot since there is less material to transfer it across.

2nd: headgames pocket port, same as above stock size valves, and beehives instead of dual springs.

All have been bowl blended.

3rd: Stock subaru valves, stock or some regular springs (not too high of seat pressure), then just a mild cam this time (hence the less extreme parts).

Stock heads will flow 500whp, cams and the porting make the power (and shift the power band) the rest is there to support the cams high lift and high rev capabilities.

If you didn't blueprint the engine I recommend it. Something making the power you will be would benefit from a dynamic balance. As I've been weighing internals its surprising how much they vary... also how much of a chunk was removed from my clutch PP to balance it.

 

very good info there, yeah i need to really figure out how i'm going to do the heads and what.
I want it to remain the drive ability it was with the big turbo (for those two days) off boost. It was very well behaved and had remarkable torque in vacuum. This is important since I drive it a lot, hopefully not daily soon but a lot.

The bread and butter combo seems to be GSC S2 cam's and supertech valves / springs & retainers. Some use ferrea. I don't know I'll need input on all that.
first I need to figure out just what all is ruined in my new motor and allow the machine shop an opportunity to provide feedback or direction.

might as well do a clutch too while its out.

sigh

 

Yup, that is the setup I went with. mainly because I wanted the Inconel exhaust valves from Supertech. Also had a mild port done and the motor was really well behaved.