2013 STI Rotated Turbo Project

I would not be ok with that. The surface should be flat, there is no reason for a gap there.

There are lots of things that cause bearing failure. Bad Tolerances, not enough oil pressure, or tuning. Every tuner will say its tolerance and every engine builder will tell you its tuning.

 

Bottom line is this will likely end up in a bunch of finger pointing and you will simply have to eat the cost.....but I sure do hope that is not the case.

 

hnoes:

yes, and I used a tiny bit of Fujibond on mine to keep it perfectly set in the creases so as I put it on it wouldn't come out.

also andrew nor I pointed out anything that was anyone's fault.
In fact, we aren't using, and I would rather no one use the terms blame or fault here. He and I are friends, I like them, I like doing business with them and regardless of why my rod bearing spun we are going to collectively solve the problem and move forward.

all the reputation slandering and stuff isn't really for me. When I was raging about SOA / warranty, it was because of their presumptions, attitude and customer service, not whether or not it was their "fault". Andrew and his dad are freakin awesome at customer service, they make no presumptions, and have a better attitude then a dog with a bone.

also for the record he and I spent a good hour talking over the motor and inspecting all sorts of stuff when I dropped it off. He was just as stumped as I was at the point I left.

 

nope.

finger pointing is for haters and people who like to watch bridges burn behind them so they can come on the internet and brag / rage.

I prefer community, friends (not enemies) relationships with people and expanding knowledge.

everyone can learn from my / our experiences with this car of mine. already a wealth of knowledge has been documented, even if it was already documented somewhere else.

we will get it fixed like I said, I have a daily driver now, no pressure, no rush and no blame games that end in a bunch of teenage nonsense.

 

I am however debating on switching to a KillerB pan AND oil pickup AND windage tray, just to fully and completely eliminate any / all possibilities of an oiling issue being the blame in the future, even if it wasn't this time.

for the record I never did anything that would even manifest oiling issue behavior as it's normally seen in our cars. For example I never did any long hard corners or track type behavior.

 

also

 

Just a warning on the aluminum killerb oil pan.....be EXTREMELY careful when tightening the drain plug/s. They strip at the slightest hint of tq on them. Talking from experience here....that was a royal pain in the butt. I had my tq wrench set at 8 ft lbs and it still stripped :|

 

oh wow, hmm might need to put a quick drain in there then. They have two holes for that purpose don't they?
man those threads are meaty, that's kind weird.

 

I think the second hole was for an external oil temp sensor in the pan or something like that.

I thought my tq wrench failed but when I called killerb he told me I wasn't the first to contact him with that issue. He also stated that he would double check some things. (my pan was number 3 that he ever made so it was an early beta stage pan).

 

I'd rethink quick drain plug. I had one in for a bit and one oil change it was out of the lock position (piece of cardboard I think). Then I thought of all of my past street encounters and what a foe would do if he found that little gem.

 

yeah i was already regretting my statement, then you said this.

i'll stick to a magnetic drain plug.

 

http://www.rallysportdirect.com/Arrow-Precision-C131-Crankshaft-79mm-Stroke

they say something interesting about the stock crank only feeding rod journals from one main feed.
i wonder if that contributed?

 

One main feed each.

The arrow has 2 passages to each rod journal from 2 separate mains.

 

there you go, follow the white rabbit...

 

David and Andrew are as honest as it gets. I'm sure they will take good care of you.

 

they are a RARE breed among machinists, car guys, men, hell people period.

i'm not the least bit concerned. in fact andrew had the motor apart in like two days in spite of their schedule up there.

 

So which bearing gave out? Any clue what happened?

 

it was one of the rod bearings on the middle of the crank #2 i think but not sure.
only thing we could find so far was a blob of gasket sealer that somehow ended up on a main bearing.

MAYBE it had been lodged in the oil galley feeding off that main to the rod journal, but that would have affected the main which looked fine from what andrew sent me.

I don't know, don't wanna speculate. He used gasket sealer on assembly of bottom end and I used it all over on the top end so it could have come from anywhere at anytime IF it even had anything to do with it.

i mean it was clearly an oiling issue why else would ONLY that bearing spin and the motor was otherwise flawless. It's got me worried though should I bump up my oil pump on rebuild or go with a different crank or what.

cranks are insanely expensive and no one else seems to switch cranks on big builds so i don't know.

not exactly sure what the "TSM 12 point oiling system modification" is but maybe something like that would help?

 

I have seen time and time again many failure due to a pesky 'blob' of gasket sealant. It could have come from ANYWHERE. I was so careful to not put too much in my engine because WJM told me that I will clog up oil passages if you do such. That's the nature of a boxer engine and sealing those halves up.

I don't think the TSM 12 point oiling mod would've saved ya.....that blob will still clog up an oil passage as some of those passages are quite small. Just think of how big the hole is on the crank itself....it's not that big.

 

Sucks to see this happen so soon on your short block man!

It's not likely that our oil galley modifications would have had an impact on saving what happened, silicone in engines winds up taking out a lot of components typically.

One thing is for sure though, since bearing material has made it's way through the oil system I would DEFINITELY replace the oil pump, oil cooler assembly, timing belt tensioner, and clean the heck out of all the AVCS solenoids & oil lines.

 

yep i'm debating on doing the pan / windage tray / pickup tube as well... don't know if switching to the full on killerB stuff is really necessary or not.
I have the tigwerks pickup tube already, but i'd have to switch if I got their pan.

oil cooler for sure, timing belt tensioner and all the pulleys for sure and also going to use a gates racing belt this time instead of a stocker.

andrew is cleaning all the AVCS stuff for me, he said the heads were very clean and it looks like no bearing material made it into them which is awesome. since my turbo feeds off a head, i'm hoping none made it into there either but i'm still going to pump oil through it or something and inspect just to be sure. I don't think i'll have to send it back though at this point.

now oil pump, i'm debating on that, should I get one of the higher flow higher pressure ones? is mine (13 sti ej257 USDM) an 11mm or 12mm? I keep seeing references to the JDM one everywhere which is 12mm. I'm guessing since it's so popular that mine is 11mm? Should I think of that over an aftermarket or regular stock USDM one?

 

I wouldn't use a Gates Racing belt....stock is best. Reason being is I have personally changed around 20 timing belts on Subaru's. I have ran across 6-7 of them (the first being my personal car) where a tooth was off by half a degree to a degree. Car ran fine but was down on power....the tuner noticed it and when we checked sure enough one cam was off by half a degree. We changed to a stock belt on the spot and tried to retune...bam instant expected power was back. Then I ran across a few other belts and that was enough for me to think not worth it. Stock belt is plenty strong.

 

I would skip the Gates stuff, they tend to stretch - OEM works best and if you got a new one the last time around then just re-use it.

The Killer B stuff is awesome but unless you plan to seriously road race the car all you need is the pick up.

You have the 11mm oil pump and that is the one we use in all of our builds just get a stock replacement for yours.

 

And I already have a brand new stock belt I bought last time and didn't use, nice!
So just get another 11mm pump and oil cooler? That's easy enough.
I don't plan on doing any serious competitive road racing no, but i do find myself on some serious mountain roads in NC competing against, gravity LOL

 

I think most people just take a stock pump and shim it to get more pressure.

I also agree, no point in getting the oil pan unless you are going to do heavy road racing.

Stick with a stock belt!

 

15010AA360 - Oil Pump
21311AA120 - Oil Cooler
21370KA001 - Oil Cooler Seal

 

what about the other three timing belt pullies (one has teeth) and the water pump?

 

Those should be fine. Water pump I would just go ahead and replace but you have what 20k miles? If money is tight you would be fine reusing.

 

You could replace all the pulleys but none of those have oil running through them and with your mileage they really shouldn't be bad.

The water pump really should be fine but if you want one with a metal impeller vs the stock composite one then we offer those.

 

There are a couple of different pumps available although I've never seen one thats composite. There is one that has the better flowing wheel in it. If you need to know which one just message me and Ill get you the part number.

Matt

 

always use the cast impeller style, far better than a stamped steel impeller like Gates or the corner parts store.

 

Ok so it looks like I will need at a minimum:

1x Scat Rod
1x Stock STI crank
1x Bearing Set (Rod / Main)
1x subaru gasket set for reassembly & head gaskets
1x subaru oil cooler assembly
1x subaru 11mm oil pump (might go with a JDM 12mm, dunno)
1x cast impeller water pump
1x Timing belt tensioner (might do all the rollers just since it's 23k miles)

I already have a brand new subaru timing belt, should be good.

Optional:

1x 500ft/lb capable street clutch
1x streetlite flywheel (or resurface stock)
4x GSC S2 Camshafts
24x Ferrea valves, springs and associated hardware
1x ETS Equal Length exhaust manifold

 

Man.... remember your dreams of doing an H6 swap?

 

LOL yeah, that was before I pulled my own motor, twice, and put a custom turbo / piping kit on it.
I now have a lot more respect for fitment, "merging" wiring harnesses and clearance issues. My aspirations have come down quite a bit more into the realistic part of the spectrum heh

 

http://www.rallysportdirect.com/Mishimoto-MMRAD-STI-08X-Performance-Aluminum-Radiator-X-Line

or mishimoto VS koyo in general.
this one at least is 3 row, koyo only makes a 2 row.
mishimoto made in china, koyo made in indonesia

 

My mishimoto worked just fine.

 

I think I might do the ACL Orbit oil pump.
more pressure, more volume.

at the very least, if another random piece of fujibond makes its way into something, it will have a better chance of being blasted free?

 

Not really. You are over thinking this thing to be honest. I see wanting to be careful but also think in hindsight more pressure = more ability to work something loose. The OEM 11mm is plenty sufficient.

 

^ this

 

I have a Koyo and my brother has a Mishimoto. Can't say bad about either one. It really depends on you. Koyo probably has a better reputation than Mishimoto, but that's just what the internet says lol.

 

Its more about volume than pressure. That being said, if it was me on a dual avcs engine I would do a 12mm pump, I would also have it ported and shimmed. Andrew is more than capable of both.

 

Ask your builder about his reccomendations for an oil pump/anything internal. Things go better when you follow the builders advice for basic engine components (oil type, oil filter, oil pump, head stud, gaskets, etc...) and your tuner's advice on ancillary items (cams, injectors, turbo etc...)

Steve @ Pullz-On Tuning

 

probably do an 11mm ported / shimmed.
12mm will lift it's relief at the wrong time according to some charts i've been studying. Since I don't have an outside loop for the bypass this could be bad in heating up the oil for no reason.
Also everyone seems to be using 11mm on big builds with "normal" bearing clearences. I only see 12mm on the BIG builds with super loose tolerances for more oil.

 

Well I talked to andrew today, probably wasted a great bit more of his time then was necessary but I like hearing what he has to say about all my decisions.

Going with 11mm oil pump, ported, shimmed and ready for action.
Have to get 1 scat rod, new bearings all the way around, new STI crank, and of course gaskets, o-rings, oil cooler, oil pan & aformentioned oil pump. It's amazing how much just that crap added up to, not including the crank and rod.

We are discussing heads now.

Right now it's either:

A: Leave it the way it was
B: GSC S2 w/GSC beehive springs / retainers / stock valves
C: GSC S2 w/GSC beehive springs / retainers / ferrea valves 1mm+
D: GSC S2 w/ferrea springs / locks / seats / valves / etc 1mm+

D is most expensive, and all ferrea (ballin) but highly unlikely to be required in my application.
C is probably what i'll end up doing if I do ANYTHING. I don't see a need for a full ferrea valvetrain, and if i'm going to get the GSC cams i'm going to do it right and at least put the best valve in there.

XLuben ran STOCK cams and STOCK valves in his 6266 setup, but he upgraded the springs to beehives so that he could spin to 8200rpm. I found that this was a rather interesting choice on his part, it netted him 522whp at one point but that was on e85.

 

It netted a lot more than that on e85. I have driven it and roll raced it.

 

yeah i can't find the bottom line thread on that car, there are too many on too many sites. i would say it was more too.

 

You are at least 80whp off.

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And we brake boosted and FFS that car.



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FWIW...that was done on a WRX manifold and heads as well. When we try to help here...it isn't because we want to be right...it is because we want you to have a car that you enjoy that runs. There isn't any breaking new ground on your platform. There are cars that make power and run...and those that don't.

 

NF built and tuned that car in Minnesota. This isn't TSM loyalty or any of that crap. Will Doug be the only guy that touches my maps in the SE? Absolutely. If I lived up there would NF help with my car and tune it? Absolutely. There are those that have history with high HP Subaru's and those that don't or those that have a history of them not running. Just my .02. My car set records for the Dom1.5 and I never had one issue with the motor. She could have taken even more. There is something to be said for that. If you go through all of the forums...you will find guys on rebuild after rebuild...and those that aren't.

/rantover