daydreaming 2.5 engine questions

Discussion in 'Modifications & DIY how-to' started by Mad Mallard, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. Mad Mallard

    Mad Mallard the mad mallard

    so.... burning a little oil now. expected after 200,000 miles, i guess.

    so some major engine work is likely to be in my future one way or another...

    I was thinking about what my power goals are for the car. the idea is I want to be pretty much good for another 200+k miles in the 300~400hp range because i'm basically keeping the car until the welds give out. The only motorsports I really get a chance to enjoy are the drags, and I daily drive too much to go overboard with chassis mods.

    so I started wondering about what would the costs be to get an STI (or a turbo 2.5 from something) engine to swap in and go whole hog.

    I've been carving some Nasioc threads, but I'm having a tough time getting the info organised from various build threads...

    I dunno what the starting point in costs would be, could you guys help me build a shopping list to get a grasp on $$$ i need to have in my head? Like, start from what I should expect to pay for the engine first, and then take it from there...
     
  2. KGraska

    KGraska Member

    You can get an EJ257 short block for 1800ish. Get some head work done while the motor is out. Grab a used vf39, sti injectors and you'll be in your power range with decent reliability. That is plenty for a DD.
     
  3. techlord

    techlord Active Member

    New STOCK SB but toss in some forged pistons and VF43 or is it 34 or 18G size turbo along with mild headwork with STI cams arp studs and conservative tune.
    should be in the 325-350 range at 21psi
    closer to 400 wheel add a grand to up turbo to Dom 1.5
     
  4. ChrisW

    ChrisW Member

    v7 207 longblock
    larger turbo
    Sti tmic or another fmic
    Your 205 harness and ecu
    IA Performance AVCS Bulkhead Wiring Kit
    Tune
     
  5. Mad Mallard

    Mad Mallard the mad mallard


    So for you...

    engine 1800
    machine 300?
    turbo 500
    inj 600

    -------------
    $3200 without installation and tune? shouldn't an engine come with the injectors?



    edit-(booo courier font should be fixed width but it ate my spaces...)
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  6. b reel

    b reel Active Member

    figure the oil cooler is pretty well varnished up so replace that as well as oil pump, pick up, dip-stick and pan (EJ257 swap).
     
  7. Mad Mallard

    Mad Mallard the mad mallard

    automatic. looking at larger displacement for low end response before spool.

    otherwise, i would just keep my engine for a more involved build out.



    so ... everyone's list is coming in about $3500 before install and tune?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  8. ChrisW

    ChrisW Member

    Avcs would help in that category
     
  9. techlord

    techlord Active Member

    your #s are about right but in the wrong place machine work will be a bit more the injectors MUCH less.

    If you have the space many here will help with removal, install and engine assembly. Tune will be around 300.

    so 3500 is not so bad when you consider most places charge around 2K + for just head gaskets.
     
  10. Mad Mallard

    Mad Mallard the mad mallard

    i understand that for reliability, i should do lots of other things on setting up a new engine... such as head gaskets and timing belt work. so the number will be higher. i just needed a starting point to put in mah brain.

    thx guys
     
  11. Justin V

    Justin V Member

    Sti engine swap won't work... easily. All sti's are manual tranny's. Swapping to STI AVCS heads requires the 16bit ecu and wiring harness... there is usually a difference between the auto and manual ecu's. Maybe I am wrong though.

    There are flaws to both subaru shortblocks. 2.0L is a direct swap in your case, were/ are known for spun rod bearings due to tight clearances. 2.5L ringland failure.

    to do it right you are most likely going to be upwards of $3000.

    I'd just get yours rebuilt as a 2.1 stroker. Save money on parts. Get a new sti crank, fresh bearings. a bore and hone for the liners and your choice of pistons, even rods if you opt for it. no head work needed, although a valve job and decking the heads wouldn't hurt.
     
  12. Sparta

    Sparta Active Member

    I'd go with ej207 as well.

    A 2.5 hybrid wont last to 200k miles and and sti longblock will reauire a full harness and ecu swap + forged pistons
     
  13. Sparta

    Sparta Active Member

    Ej207 has avcs for low end tq and revs higher than the 205 and 257
     
  14. superhawk28

    superhawk28 Member

    There is absolutely no way a forged piston engine is going to last you another 200k miles. You want 200k miles and 300-400 hp then a new EJ 205 if you can find one with an 18g setup done correctly will get you rock solid reliable 300hp on a 4eat.
     
  15. b reel

    b reel Active Member

    Wossner or Mahle 4000 series might come close but not with the wick turned up
     
  16. Kokopelli

    Kokopelli Active Member

    What about the tranny? How well would a 4eat handle the extra torque of a 2.5?
     
  17. Matt

    Matt Think before you post Staff Member Supporting Member

    shouldn't matter. the 4eat was available in 2.5l trim as well
     
  18. Mad Mallard

    Mad Mallard the mad mallard

    4eat stock applications have been fine after replacing a torque converter for 400hp applications.

    i think the esx drag car runs a built up 4eat on its 1300hp car
     
  19. Mad Mallard

    Mad Mallard the mad mallard

    why would a forged piston not last?
     
  20. superhawk28

    superhawk28 Member

    Loose tolerances just beat up the cylinder walls. Harder piston material just don't last long term. Koko had one of the longest lasting forged pistons I've seen that was not OEM.....I think he got nearly 80K miles out of it on his 'soft' forged pistons.
     
  21. Mad Mallard

    Mad Mallard the mad mallard

    so its not the piston, its the engine? ok, i didn't understand the wording
     
  22. superhawk28

    superhawk28 Member

    It's the piston. Forged pistons have to be run loose as they expand a lot when heated up. So loose piston during cold starts equals a piston hammering and slapping the cylinder walls. Oil consumption due to looser tolerances also comes in play. In the end 75k-100k is to be expected but statistics show many reringing around 60K.
     
  23. nygiant

    nygiant Member

    Not to impose upon Mallard's thread, but I suppose I can expect a similar price range for a rebuild/build in my 08 under the same expectations/wants/needs as Mallard's.
    I remember talking to Wes about it briefly some time ago and he suggested a new block with a vf48, TMIC, Inj, fuel pump.....I currently have a stage 2 vf52
     
  24. Matto357

    Matto357 Crazyazn likes Naps Staff Member

    I may be way off base but the 52 and 48 put out similar numbers. I would go slightly bigger than a 48.
     
  25. Mad Mallard

    Mad Mallard the mad mallard

    ok, i dont drive like a retarded monkey all the time, so i'm sure that will extend life. but regardless, it sounds like forged pistons arent for me, and the money is better spent elsewhere.

    thx, this is the exact kind of stuff i needed help in shaking out
     
  26. nygiant

    nygiant Member

    I was told to stick with oem for better reliability.
     
  27. Mad Mallard

    Mad Mallard the mad mallard

    necro post time, day-dreaming again...

    i'm starting to consider this option more, especially since i've had my car since mile 7 on the odometer.

    anyone familiar with going thru a setup this way and shed some insight?
     
  28. superhawk28

    superhawk28 Member

    I have a friend with a stroked 2.1....nothing fancy. Hard to beat OEM in terms of reliability.
     
  29. Mad Mallard

    Mad Mallard the mad mallard

    or is there some reading up i can do somewhere?
     
  30. Mad Mallard

    Mad Mallard the mad mallard

    the browsing of sale sights shows that the entry cost for kits start around $1700...
     

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