I know some of you know quite a bit about suspension mods. Well there are some Swift Springs for a wagon for sale on the forum. Id like to get them, but I havent previously heard much about Swift. I have done some research and everyone seems to like them. What are your views/experiences of Swift springs?? Id like to do some autocrossing possibly, so I would imagine I would need some aftermarket shocks of some sort, which do you recommend?? And what will fit my 06 Wagon?? In addition, would I need some camber plates up top? If so, would I need front and rear camber plates, or just fronts?? Previously, I wanted to get some Tein Super-street dampers with the upper pillowball mounts, they are just so damn expensive. So if I decided to go with the Spring/strut setup mention above, how would it compare to some SS-P dampers in terms of comfort and performance?? Wow, thats a lot of questions! Keep in mind I already have front and rear sways, and I am planning on getting a rear strut bar in the near future. Thanks for the help in advance !!
I'm sure a bunch of people will chime-in on this topic. In my research for suspension setup on the STi, I found the Swifts come highly recommended in the STi world. I cannot speak personally about them, as I have never run them. A lot of the answers to your questions are going to depend on what you want to do with the car...daily driver, just doing it for the looks, track day junkie, auto-x, etc... Generally, after market struts aren't necessarily needed with aftermarket springs. Most aftermarket lowering springs will compress the strut more and therefore they'll wear faster than stock on stock. Most of the guys I know on here who are running or have run aftermarket springs stayed on stock struts with no problems. The Eibach Pro-Kit springs on my '03 WRX with stock struts had no issues for 47,000 miles before I sold the car. With the STi research, I found the hardened top mounts recommended with aftermarket springs to reduce flex and prevent tearing the stock tops. The camber plates are recommended for dialing in different rates at the track or auto-x, but again, not a necessity. I hope some of this helps...mostly general info for you, but a lot of the suspension guru's on here will chime in with more details. Good luck! :bigthumb:
You will enjoy the Swifts, they're sorta a "little secret" amongst the spring worlds. There's no need for coil-overs unless you want that adjust-ability for track usage or a pita around the city. Case in point, I am selling my coilover setup to return to a spring / camber plate setup in terms of all around comfort and daily drive-ability. The new setup should prove to be as agile and as enjoyable as the JICs Wagons and camber generally do not go hand in hand. You guys have a smaller front track which limits you tremendously in your options (as stock) when it comes to camber. I'd highly recommend front and rear camber plates if you'd like to actually see more camber out of them. My suggestions, considering you already have sway bars is to basically build a setup that consists of a set of springs, camber plates, upgraded tires and experience! Depending on how serious you want to take your auto-x career you will want to modify your car based on the class in which you wish to compete. Any other questions? Cheers,
I like the KYB AGX's for struts. The Tokico D-specs are nice also, but a little more pricy. They are both great for autox and street. The KYB's are by far the least expensive adjustable strut on the market and are a great performer. They will also last a long time. Don't stick with stock dampers, the dampers are way too slow. You don't need camber plates on front or back. You can get enough negative camber from a set of aftermarket camber bolts and save yourself a lot of money. If you get really good and a little extra camber will help, then go for the plates, but I would wait a year or two. They will also destroy your tires fast. I don't know much about the swift springs, but just look to see which springs have the higher spring rate. When I was looking at springs, I saw that the Espelir's had one of the highest, but now RCE's are definitely the highest. The RCE's are expensive and you won't find them used.
Thanks for all the info guys! Any autocrossing that I may do down the line will be strictly recreational. Im not looking to compete really, just looking to improve my driving abilities for the most part and just have some fun! About the camber plates, I most likely wont be running a crazy camber set up(for the sake of tire wear), but I would like to have a mild performance alignment. So the camber plates would allow easy camber adjustment. They would also act as a hardened strut-top mount, right?? If so, is there much of an advantage to the hardened strut top mounts?? Also, how much of an improvement would aftermarket stuts be?? I was under the impression that the valving of stock struts does not allow them to control a spring of higher spring rate?? If this is the case, struts should be a pretty large improvement over stock.
I have the D-Spec's and love them(also have prodrive springs). i would definetly recomend these struts. i was able to dial out a lot of understeer as compared to stock struts w/ springs only. also another thing i like about the D-Spec's is you can get these cool little things for them http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm they are made for an RX-8 but work perfect in our cars, with these you dont have to take out or move the back seat to adjust your struts!! Note: i dont think the adjuster cables are nessisary in wagons due to the exposed strut top. but for sedans they are perfect As for camber, i have the ingalls camber bolts. i was able to max my front camber out at -3.3 degrees:eek3: (definetly way too much to run on a daily basis but WOW turn-in was amaizing!!!) best of all these bolts are cheap, got two for 20 bucks from summit racing. Hope this helps
Don't get camber plates. Seriously, you said it your recreational, you don't need them. The camber bolts are just as easy to have a "performance alignment" done at a shop. You don't want to adjust camber before and after a race without adjusting toe. You really don't want to adjust your toe without knowing what numbers you are getting. Toe out at high speeds can be really scary. I know a lot of people think they can just reduce the amount of negative camber after they race, but it has to be really minimal. Save yourself $230 and just get the bolts. The hardened mounts aren't that important either, especially since you aren't a track junky. Autox doesn't put enough stress onto the stock mounts to break them. I ran for over 2 years with springs and struts without any issues. I think they are over rated, but thats just my opinion. Yes, get adjustable struts. The handling sucks with just springs. You will still plow and have lots of rollover on the tires. They will also allow your transfer of weight to happen faster. So this will help out with the slalom's and other tight corners or corners that are consecutive and fast.
I was looking at some pictures of wagons with swift springs, and they look like they are sagging in the rear, is this typical of swifts?? Also, Ive heard good things about the Eibach Pro-Kit, Prodrive, and Cobb springs. Anyone had any experience with any of these??
I have the prodrive springs on my '02 they handle deacently and are very comfy, but i want somthing stiffer... i still get a lot of body roll with the springs. im looking into getting some Ground Control coil over sleeves.
I see. Another problem is that is seems like the stiffer the spring, the less comfortable it will be. From what Ive read, the Eibach, Prodrive, and Swift springs are reasonably comfortable.
The Eibachs and Prodrive are good springs, but don't have a spring rate as high as the Espelir's. Eibach front 171lbs./in. rear 160, Espelir 252lbs./in. and 196 rear. A lot of the aftermarket springs don't drop the WRX evenly. They normally drop the rear a little more. Like the Eibach's that I am running. The drop is -1.3" in the front and -1.0" in the rear. The Espelir's compensate a little bit by having more in the front -1.4" and less in the rear -.8", which I can see being more of an even drop. Base the drop off of that if you don't want that "sag" look. The bumpyness comes from dampening too. Its not just about the springs. Springs generate bouncyness, while struts can give you bumpyness. The KYB's or Tokico's with any of the springs mentioned here is NOT a harsh ride at all. When I have my stuff on soft, its very easy to deal with especially on the worst of roads.
I am running on the Espelir GTs and love them. There is one person running the GTs on his wagon and they drove real nice. Just another spring to keep in mind to confuse ya more
I won't say clemsonscooby doesn't know his sht, but I have to disagree about the camber bolts. Sure the plates could be considered overkill if you're never going to make adjustments but if you read enough threads about camber bolts I'm sure you'll find that people have more problems with them than they do with camber plates. Of course it's just my opinion on the topic and I'm not in as into the autoX scene as others here are.
I am running camber bolts up front and have been problem free for a while. Guess its all about how ya use the car and again I dont autox
Camber bolts can slip over time, but are a hell of alot cheaper that camber plates. though perf. allignments are not cheap either. i auto-x on my camber bolts and havent had any problems. for me camber bolts work just fine... but i can get a good perf allignment for around 35 bucks up here in clemson
The Espelir's do sound nice. A slightly more agressive drop and a higher spring rate! You wouldnt happen to have any side shots of the drop would you?? By the way, thanks everyone for all the input! It has been extremely helpful!
If you are serious about autox, go autox your car on stock suspenion. Figure out what your car feels like when being driven on edge. Throwing a bunch of mods on your car before you autox it may not yield the handling you want. FYI tires are going to have the biggest impact on a car's performance at an autox.
I haven't heard that much bad about camber bolts besides that they slip. Most of the time they slip, because the person at the performance shop doesn't tighten them back down to spec afterwards. What else is wrong with the bolts? Some struts can't take the additional negative camber that a plate can give. Also, I've heard that the quality of the Cusco camber plate is not that good, which means you are going to spend an extra $50 over the Cusco plates to get the RCE's.
Another bit: the pde plates are lovely b/c you can add caster, however, PDE pulled their wholesaling and thus has made it difficult to acquire a set.
I will try to get a picture later today. As far as the drop its minimal, but the handling is much nicer. I pretty much did springs, sways, and perf alignment. :ddirty:
check this out. found it on Nasioc. http://www.mackinindustries.com/md/espelir/springs.html This is with the Espelir ASD springs Before After
That looks good man! Looks like a nice and even drop! The application chart doesnt show a wagon specific spring, are yours for the sedan? Also, how much did those run you and where did you get them??
Actually look at my profile . I drive an 05 STI, so I am not sure about wagons. Thes ones I got were 199 or so. May want to inquire with Sakari to see if he can get them. SkullWRX has the Espelir GTs on his wagon. Shoot him a PM.
So true :wiggle: coilvers going in soon! Not because I dislike the GTs, I love them, but I'm ready to move on to coils. The main difference between GT and ASD is the type of spring. ASD are progressive, GT are linear so you get a more predictable response. Both are great choices, and yes, the GTs will be sold post coilover install. Don't know the price yet, but definitely cheap.
If the alignment guy knows what he is doing the bolts will not move unless you hit something.Have him pull the wheels off and tighten them straight on with an airgun and they will stay put.I was an align tech for 15 years and never had a problem on my own cars.
I don't worry about camber bolts slipping, but I REALLY like camber plates. It is a beautiful thing to be able to run reasonable camber and near zero toe on the street and then go BIG camber and toe-out in 2 minutes when you want more front grip. There are a lot of true things said in this thread. I do support getting out there and using the car as is. That said, many people can be frustrated by the understeer on their first outing... There are plenty of people that really enjoy a car with just a good performance alignment with camber bolts, but it's really hard to beat the ability to dial in more front grip whenever you want it... SS