http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/4599 Again, hope this provides some spark for both companies. I haven't been excited by a Toyota Product since they killed the MKII MR2 Turbo and despite me liking the new impreza, it certainly looks to be outclassed, performance wise at least, pretty handily by the EVO and Lancer Ralliart...
Well, subaru wants to have broader appeal and toyota wants to get back their youth market. I agree about toyota's line though - nothing much at all after the supra TT and mkII T
Yep, universal appeal due to a complete and utter lack of character and attitude. I'll take my polarizing bugeye over any Yota.
Doesn't surprise me since the new product line from Subaru (with the exception of the new Forester which is friggin’ gorgeous and the overpriced STi) is pathetically main stream. If it wasn’t for the hood scoop on the WRX I couldn't tell if it is a Mazda until I get close enough to read the brand. Toyota is one of the most efficiently managed companies in the world. Hopefully something good comes out of it.
are you saying my 80's spaceship looking AW11 is bland? haha, nah the current ones are pretty lame though.
Does this sound the demise of the boxer?.....Only time will tell. Toyota has a way of ruining perfectly good product lines. (although Subaru is trying their best to kill the Impreza)
I think they may have something. I myself am a fan of toyota simply because they bred the Supra haha. But the new impreza's are quite lame (although this months modified mag is littered with some bad ass ones) but something along the lines of the Gt4 returning will be nice, and also give me other alternatives to choose from if something ever happened to my bug eye.
So would you consider a Lexus an unimaginative car? I doubt it. No, why would it? Subaru might learn something from the #1 car manufacturer in the world. Toyota is light years ahead of other companies in their manufacturing processes...see Alex's comment regarding Six Sigma. Toyota openly invites competitors to their manufacturing facilities to see how they do it. There's no harm in doing so; since they are so far ahead, the few bits of info the competition picks up won't even begin to make up ground. I say, look on the positive side...it might make that Subaru you drive a better vehicle.
Well... Yeah. I think Lexus is unimaginative. Oh boy they park themselves (kind of). Look at the IS (NOT the IS-F that is a "supercar" and not in the same class as a Subaru). The IS Series may look alright, but they are a little too similar to a Camry for my liking. But look at the mechanicals of the car. You can only get a manual on the slower version (IS250). What genius thought that one up? But if you get beyond the IS350's Manu-Matic BS, the engine blows my mind!A 3.5 Liter, four-cam, 24-valve (with intake and exhaust variable valve timing) and 11.8:1 compression ratio V6 makes a lousy 306 crank horsepower? What the hell are they doing? All that technology and they can't make 100 hp per liter? That kind of backward ass thinking is exactly why I don't like Toyota OR Lexus. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate how amazing Toyota's manufacturing processes are and how great 6 sigma is, but its not pertinent to my argument. /rant
I think you are all missing the point. Do you really think the STi is going to be converted into a Toyota. Try thinking big picture... For what it's worth...I completely disagree that a Lexus is unimaginative. Go drive one of their cars on a daily basis and I bet you'll feel differently. To your point, what makes a Subaru imaginative? It's boxer engine? Subaru wasn't the first manufacturer to use it. And I completely disagree that the IS looks like Camry. The IS wasn't made to compete with a true "sports" car like the M3 or a WRX/STi for that matter. It's direct competitors are the BMW 330 (n/a), G35 and TL. If you want to talk performance numbers amongst other cars in it's class...the IS is a whole second faster than the BMW 330i 0-60...
Nah the boxer engine is pretty damn bullet proof. Toyota sticks with what works. I think they would only refine it if there is anything left to refine. Just look at all the research into the boxer diesel. You gotta love that bad boy! I would be all over a Boxer Turbo Diesel!
This gentleman may have a differen't opinion on that: http://www.phoenixtuning.com/ He was going to throw a 1.3 liter Starlet GT Turbo engine into my 93 Tercel the goal being a major sleeper. Instead I got a Subaru! I don't regret that! But these guys can work some magic on Toyota's.
My point with bringing up the "death of the boxer" is that Toyota is not a sports car company. They sell cars for the masses. They may be quality an have lots of nice bells and whistles. But Droobydroobydoo says it best: Name one sports car Toyota currently sells? True sports cars (which I include the STi in this catagory) are not mainstream. They typically do not sell as well as other types of cars. Companies manufactor true sports cars for PR purposes or to cater to a certain sector. Toyota deals in mass-production and mass-selling. If they take over and find the WRX or more specifically the STi are not selling to their expectation they WILL go the way of the dodo (point and case....Supra, MR2, and ever other sports car Toyota has ever sold)
They could use Subaru as a performance brand. Toyota for everybody/mass market cars, Lexus for luxury and Subaru for performance. Wouldn't be a bad idea for them to do it this way either. I also think this move is more for FHI's battery tech for Toyota hybrids than Subaru directly.
Not to beat a dead horse but that's kind of my point. If Toyota owns Subaru they will manage their product line. If the STi is the model which sold the least (because is a specialty car only appealing to a certain sector of the people). It could be on the chopping block. It's all hypothetical and I doubt Toyota will ever have that much control in Subaru (fingers crossed).
subaru is a profitable car company. you dont go in to a business and chop it up if its working. thats corporate 101. Subaru isnt a competitor, so they arnt looking to shut it down. Maybe help with production and such.
I guess "unimaginative" is my work for "mass market." I don't like mass market cars. I like my Subaru because it is kinda unique... unique styling and performance. Sure Subaru wasn't the first car with the boxer engine, but it was one of the only cars I know with an affordable boxer engine not to mention rear biased AWD and 4 doors with decent trunk space all for $25k or less (used). I feel like Toyota is making the Subies look like every other car on the road to get more "mass market appeal" out of a quirky car. And I guess that is my big issue... I think Toyota is ruining a car that I love to try to make better sales numbers. I can't blame them for that, but that is a tactic that I don't think will work. People who drive Camries and Accords are going to buy more Camries and Accords. People who want an affordable AWD sports car are going to buy EVOs or A3's because the new WRX looks like a small minivan. In essence I believe Subaru is marketing themselves out of their own niche and instead of widening the appeal of the Subaru they are narrowing it.
rear biased? maybe in the STi and the 4eat wrx. 5mt wrx is 50/50 ALL THE TIME. We all sit here and say how wonderful the AWD system on the wrx really is.. but mos tof us drive 5mt WRXs not stis and deff not 4eat 's and the wrx's awd system isnt advanced at all. 50/50 all the time ,no dynamic tq shifting.. look at Acura SH or bmw xdrive or 4matic from benz
They are gonna do what makes $$..Toyota that is. They are already outselling everyone else..But it does not make sense to leave out a market segment because it is small unless there is no $ to be made..I will guess there is at least a 6-8000 profit margin in an sti??maybe more.
We'll see what happens with the re-branding. I think the WRX sedan has already fallen on it's face:eek3: and the STi has entered an incredibly high end, competitive market segment. So far I have seen a weak if non-existent marketing campaign for Subaru performance, as far as main stream. They may need Toyota right now.....badly!
17 percent != Own Chill out people...it's a good thing. Oh no...the STi is going to be Camry on steroids. :nuts:
I don not believe that subaru will fizzle out by any means. With the turbo desiel boxer coming I think this will open a much larger market for saab and subaru. 146hp with 258tq! Like some have said what's hp with no tq? Subaru is here to stay...
^^^That is a good point. I think the diesels are going to become a good market in America. Subie has one coming out, Honda has one coming out (and its coming out in the TSX I believe). I know diesels have not been huge in America, but they have great torque and good fuel efficiency. A magazine in the UK just did a test between the Prius and a BMW 520 D (a 4 cylinder diesel 5 series) and in a 500 mile trip (highway and urban) the BMW used less fuel! :ddirty: Edit: Link to Article http://www.autospies.com/news/Toyota-Prius-proves-a-gas-guzzler-in-a-race-with-the-BMW-520d-27575/
maybe this is why http://wot.motortrend.com/6238426/a...baru_rwd_sports_car_coming_in_2011/index.html looks like they are collaborating on a new sports car.
all i have to say is: i would MUCH rather toyota be controlling those shares instead of GM - which is essentially what happened. maybe this will be the fabled diesel boxer?
When was the last time you saw an artists rendering in a Japanese magazine look anything like the future real car?
I dunno. I don't really look at artist renderings in Japanese magazines. In fact I thought that was real picture. My bad?
I personally don't think collaboration with Toyota (on any level) can be good for Subaru. I like Subarus..... I hate Toyotas..... Unless it's one sided with Toyota taking some Subaru influence, this can't be good (IMHO).