LA Times Report Could the most liberal state in the union finally make the push? I for one would be for it. I personally don't even smoke that much, but I see no difference between weed and alcohol. I think it would be a good cash crop to tax like cigarettes and beer, and would also decrease police costs and prison costs. It would also regulate what's on the streets, so you could (and I say this very loosely) control the age demographic and purity of substance (no laced drugs). You guys have any positive / negatives on this issue? Btw, take the poll halfway down, the numbers don't lie...and remember the source, and its reading clientele. Please spare the holier-than-thou attitude on this thread, it's not needed.
So true! negative - They are for legalizing it cause the state is broke. Hey we are out of money lets leagalize pot so we can tax it and make money. I am saying there are better reasons for it to be leagalized than just to tax it. everyone would be lazy and fat. Positives - It is much better than alcohol, much less violence, no hangover, does not cause cancer, the list goes on and on. I say leagalize it yeah, yeah.
i believe it has different effects on different people... i know my friend dated a guy that was really violent and when he got like that she would roll him one because it calmed him down... i see pro's and con's but everything has those... the list can go on forever back and fourth really
If it were legalized what do you guys think the regulations would be? I'm sure you wont be able to be driving while high, do you think they will distribute it at bars? or maybe come up with weed bars like hookah bars? just bored in class and trying to expand the conversation
Well I found it interesting in Amsterdam that there were no establishments that sold both weed and alcohol. It was one or the other. Granted, they often didn't mind if you bought weed from a coffee shop, and then went to a bar, ordered a beer, and smoked. I'm all for the legalization of weed. It's not something that I've done much at all, but like other's have said, I don't see it as any worse than alcohol.
I would say keep it like Amsterdam and alcohol...+21 over to buy / consume (unless military and on base), DWI laws would still apply, as well as the open container law (in reference to alcohol). Even in Amsterdam you weren't allowed to smoke on the streets, only in the cafe's and parks. It would be the equivalent of bringing a cooler of beer to Piedmont park.
well the problem with that ^^ is i think the drinking age will get lowered nationally before pot is legalized anywhere. here's the problem with both legalizing pot and lowering the drinking age. the governments would actually lose more money than they could potentially make on taxing it. the amount of arrests/fines/probation would dramatically decrease. those bring in more cash than taxing anything does. plus establishments will find a way around most of the big taxes. like getting an incentive for selling it with food, or some bullshit.
I read a similar article on Tuesday. I am 100% for the legalization/decriminalization of Marijuana, as anyone can tell from my screen name. Aside from the huge economic benefits that could come from regulating and taxing it, it would serve a huge blow to the war on terror, and more importantly, to the violence seeping over the Mexican border related to the Drug Cartel wars happening right now. If Marijuana were to be legalized, it would instantly create a huge industry in California, Oregon, Vermont, and all the other places here in the US where all the good pot is actually grown. Those of us that smoke the good stuff are not supporting terrorists, we are supporting local growers who ignore the backwards laws criminalizing it. Lets face it, good pot is not what is imported from Mexico. What we get from Mexico is the dirt that you start off smoking in high school, and then start to pass on in College where you learn the finer points of the Marijuana industry. The Government would be able to first off Tax the growers. The growers would be able to employ harvesters, curers, and shippers. The government could also then put all the street vendors out of business by allowing Marijuana to be sold in a specialty store, just like Alcohol, with proof of ID to anyone of the legal age limit. I watched a MSNBC special about 2 weeks ago called Marijuana Inc. It was a really good documentary on some levels, and completely missed the point in others. They tackled the issue from the current perspective, and from a perspective where it were to completely disappear. They never once speculated on what would happen with legalization. In the end, the Government can not do anything to stop Marijuana use. Every effort they have spent so far has been a waste. A large portion of the population to this day smokes Marijuana, although many would not admit to it openly. They will continue to smoke regardless of the law. If you can't beat'em, join'em.
The main obstacle I have figured to the legalization and regulation issue is that they would not be able to have a DUI for marijuana use. There is no way for them to determine that you were high while driving. If they test you, it is in your system for at least 30 days, so you may not have been high when pulled over, but the test would show that you were at some point within the last 30 days. How would that play out I agree with the Amsterdam type model. I would actually suggest raising the age limit beyond 21 to maybe 25. You can use in designated coffee shops/parks or in your home. Allow the government to continue to bust people caught using in non-designated areas, if caught smoking while behind the wheel (Would need to be caught in the act, not pulled over and tested and accused of being high while driving), that way the government could continue to getting their pay that way along with taxation.
Kinda off topic.. but I would hope this might start paving the way to growing more hemp. Don't have the facts/figures in front of me but, I know its much more economical and eco-friendly to use hemp to make paper and paper products.. not to mention clothing, rope etc. I'm far from a tree-huggin hippy, but the fact that we arent doing this allready is kind of sickening... Or I guess we could just keep clearing the US till its bearen(spell?) and keep bulldozing rainforests overseas.
I think i saw something in the report that said DWI laws would be expanded so people wouldn't drive in public high.
+1 to legalize. There are so many more positives than negatives. But screw the positives and negatives, it's our bodies and choice not the govt's!
then they might as well legalize Ex, meth and stuff too. And why would anyone need prescriptions anymore?
again w/ Amsterdam's policies...only legalize softcore drugs. Softcore is considered anything natural that doesn't need chemical enhancing. The really only two drugs that qualify are shrooms and pot, because the only altering done to them is the drying procedure which is considered natural. Just playing devils advocate...keep em coming :wiggle:
+1! You see so many more people acting like complete tools when they're drunk off their asses compared to pretty much no one acting stupid when they're high(In my experience at least).
Legalize it, the users will use it one way or the other. Its milder than strong liquors and never leads to domestic abuse. www.norml.org I'll get in a better reply later when I have more time
Emm will be expanded?????? A friend of mine teaches the mandatory risk and reduction course for DUI. He taught a class a few weeks ago. 24 people were in the class, 17 of them for DUI weed, more than half the class. There is a new test out where they can tell if you smoked even 3-4 hours ago. You do not need weed in the car, or be stoned off your ass. If your a smoker/drinker be careful, the local municipalities are looking for DUI's, they bring in a ton of revenue. You usually get stopped for a non-related moving violation, if they suspect the slightest bit that you're impaired they will ask you to consent to a alcohol or drug test. You have the right to refuse, but, if you do, automatic DUI. A typical first time DUI after expenses and court costs: lawyer/fines/fee's: Dui class, drug and alcohol assessment, counseling, community service, usually one day in jail, killer insurance premiums will run you around $5,000-$10,000. Oh and a DUI on your record for seven years, unless you pay closer to $10,000 and if your lucky get it reduced to reckless, which will still kill your insurance. Let's not get into if there is an accident involved. If you are under 21 and DUI you are super done. Marijuana is easily less dangerous than liquor. Liquor is literally poison, alcohol squared is Ether, it destroys every major system in the body when abused and will kill you. Marijuana is far less toxic it will cause irreversible damage to the lungs over time much like cigarettes. It may also effect the brain. Compared to liquor as a controlled substance it is far less hazardous physically and probably mentally if you compare chronic users. Liquor is actually a health benefit if you have no more than one drink per hour two drinks a day max. Beyond that it begins to be detrimental. As far as legalizing weed it's a no brainer, pun intended. The tax revenue from legalizing hemp would be incredible. Chronic use would more than likely decrease. Millions of criminals, dealers, gang banger's, drug cartels would be wiped out of business over night. Prisons would be less crowded making room for violent offenders and individuals that truly need to be off the streets. Ironically many liberals and conservatives agree on legalization. So you ask why is it not legalized!? Well crime and criminal justice is big business and this industry has a huge lobby in Washington. Putting gangs, drug cartels and daily users out of business would put law enforcement agencies, cops, government agencies and prisons out of business, hence forth dealing a striking blow to the criminal justice industry. It's like curing cancer, sure it wold be great for people, but just think of the doctors, drug companies, clinics, nurses etc that would be out of business. Legalization or not you do not want to go through a DUI. Don't drive after drinking , smoking, ingesting prescription drugs that cause impairment. .08 is the legal limit for liquor .07 can still get you a DUI. .07 is 3 drinks for a 170 lb person. It takes one full hour to metabolize one ounce of liquor, one ounce = one drink (12 ounces of 4-5% beer which is usually light beer, 4 ounces of whine, one shot of whiskey). Example, an imported dark beer or micro brew in a 16 ounce mug = two drinks. One 8 ounce glass of whine = two drinks. One long island iced tea = 3-4 drinks. You leave the bar after an hour or two. Tag light is out, pulled over, done! Just that easy. As far as weed, there is no tolerance for weed because weed is illegal, any weed in your system will give a DUI. Be careful out there!
I heard that if legalized it'll bring in BILLIONS of dollars. OH, and here is a very biased documentary on legalizing pot. (the first 10 to 15 seconds is slow) http://blip.tv/play/AdOVPZCcCg
Where do you draw the line though? Opium is natural so why not Heroin? I know there is a difference but still. I can honestly say I have never tried weed, never had the urge to, so I don't know what the big deal is. As part of my job I have been part of locating, from a helicopter, and destroying 14,500 marijuana plants. If they legalize it, it's one less thing I can put my life at risk for which is good. I don't care what people do to them selves as long as is doesn't affect me or my loved ones.
No, if you read the post above it said that its best for us to control what we put in our body. If you argue that ..then HELL anything is good.
What about all the people in jail wasting time, space, and money for minor marijuana & paraphernalia violations? The state would save so much more money and space and unclog some of the court systems by legalizing. There are many medical benefits as well for those of you who may not understand all the benefits for legalizing. Some include: Mood disorders, Anxiety, depression, ADHD, OCD, Schizophrenia, asthma, glaucoma, HIV, pain relief and it may prevent Alzheimer's and the list goes on... This would definitely stimulate more research in America and be a great example and message to Obama into pushing legalization all across the US. But funny story my dad recently wrote a letter to Obama giving him the facts, figures, and benefits of legalization and even a estimate of how much money the US would make and how many jobs it would create. Go padre!:sx:
The reduction in police and prison costs alone would make it worth it. Better buy stock in fast food companies!
In certain areas of San Francisco they are making it illegal to open fast food restaurants. The question is do people need someone to tell them not to shove another 50fat gram burger down their fat fucking faces. If an individual does not have the self control and personal integrity to decide what goes in and out of their body and they need a state or federal agency to tell them, they fail at life end of story. As far as weed. I don't smoke or drink. I don't give a rats ass if they legalize it. If the tax revenue can help lower my taxes fucking fantastic. If my tax dollars are not going to pay for some 18 year old who is serving 5 years for a bag of weed fucking beautiful. The only real effect it would have is that people would by it from legal sources instead of illegal sources hence forth making it allot safer in less criminal activity and better regulated. It would also put allot of prosecutors, lawyers out of business, oh well. I would not suggest legalizing highly addictive opiates, oh but wait, hmmm........ can't you get those from your doctor legally, since drugs like Vicadin are synthetic heroin. So opiates are actually legal you just need a prescription. So what is the big deal! Other than being hypnotized by allot of bullshit mainstream moralistic media talking about drug wars and epidemics. It is all a big fucking bunch of crap. Half those fuckers in the media are running around on psychotropic drugs anyway like Zanex, you know the "nice drugs that calm you down", prescribed by your MD pretending to be a psychologist. The kind of drug that makes you feel a little better about yourself and you're not quite sure why. Then they back fire on you and you have a psychotic episode set yourself on fire and jump out a window, or mix them with alcohol and wind up running down 400 naked screaming I want my Mommy. I stay sober so I can fully enjoy witnessing the pure hypocrisy, naivete and ignorance of modern society. It is a good buzzzzzzzzzzz!
I think it's all a pipe dream. The best that could happen is maybe allow to grow for personal consumption. If that happens, maybe I can put my clothes back in the closet and get rid of all the timers on my table lamps so I don't have to mask my power consumption to the power company. Why am I so paranoid?
That statement in reduction of prison cost is so wrong. That's the main reason why the counties would be against it. They get paid about 30K for each inmate in population per year by the states and feds. That's a loss in revenue for them. Fayette county actually contracts out convict workers from the state prisons because they make more money by keeping their inmates in jail. Hell all the work details you see on the side of the road picking up trash in Fayette county are actually from the Coweta county jail.
I agree with 420 and Wrxcoupe. To the argument of lost jobs for DEA and the like... bullshit... giv them new jobs in the govt regulated marijauna industry; and if they think potheads are morrally corrrupt and criminal give them a job at the newly created dispenseries where they can still keep an eye on the so called criminals. Legalize it!!!!! The benefits of Hemp justify this or at least decriminalize. And what of the new test for DUI???? What? What? What? (Kyles mom on Southpark)
Alcohol is bad enough, but to make pot legal too..... would just hurt the US even more.... Dont get me wrong, I used to smoke pot back in the day... I also never acomplished anything while smoking it, other than a inhailing whole plate of food in seconds. If pot is legal, the lazy will be even lazier...
The people who want to smoke pot will smoke it regardless. If legalized, I don't think there is going to be a whole load of people saying "Who-ho, its legal now.. I'm gonna be a pot-head!" To take your quote, "the lazy will still be lazy, they just won't have to worry about going to jail for a dime bag"
Even more true than you think. The perfect example is Prohibition in the 20's. Organized crime went through the roof since alcohol became an illegal substance, it became as valuable as gold and more people desired it because it was harder to get. In other words making it illegal was the perfect marketing tool. The violence and street warfare got so out of control they legalized it. The difference between pot and alcohol is that alcohol is not only far more physically addictive it impairs people physically and mentally. In this sense it is more dangerous than marijuana. The reason people don't know that is marketing and the assumption that since the federal government legalized it is better for you. This is a pure unadulterated fallacy. The taxes on alcohol are a huge part of federal revenue as well as as the virtual money pit for local municipalities writing DUI's. If you have a problem understanding the difference between legalizing and non-legalizing a drug. Imagine for a moment that not only did they keep marijuana illegal, but they made the drug: alcohol illegal. Do you think folks would just abstain? Again I don't do either but I still feel that legalization would allow far more control over the consumption of marijuana much as legalization of alcohol allows far better control over alcohol consumption. Legalization would curtail a huge market share of revenue for drug oriented organized crime in the US. For all the moral crusaders out there who feel that pot should be illegal but are drinking more than 14 drinks per week or as they say in risk reduction no more than 1 drink every hour and two drinks a day or three drink any given day you are considered high risk for alcoholism based on FEDERAL GUIDELINES. If you are drinking more than two drinks in some cases three per hour based on body weight even if you stop after two or three and then driving you are driving under the influence of alcohol and committing a crime. Per DUI guidelines .08 is DUI, BUT starting at .06 it is at the discretion of the officer. In this economy they will discretion your ass to jail.
Don't worry, the police will simply focus on other crimes, there won't be too much reduction in inmate numbers. I think you miss the point, people in jail for minor drug charges would otherwise be productive, tax paying citizens. So instead of them supporting themselves, we have to pay for them, that's fucking welfare. These people could be doing jobs and helping society on their own, even if it is just working at a pizza place and then getting high every night. Killers, rapists, thieves, they need to be locked up because they are working against our society. Pot-heads are not working against the rest of us, they just might be working a bit slower!
Yeah, if we lowered the drinking age to 18, then we would have drunk 18 year-olds just running around! It would be like college EVERYWHERE!