Speaker Upgrade

Discussion in 'Modifications & DIY how-to' started by UpSideDownDesi, Nov 30, 2010.

  1. UpSideDownDesi

    UpSideDownDesi Active Member

    My WRX came with the Factory speaker upgrade, not cutting it. I am looking to upgrade the speakers, don't want anything to fancy. I just want something sound clean and better than factory. So far this is what i have

    For front:
    Bought KFC-P709PS 6.5" 2-Way Components (minus the tweeters, gonna leave the factory ones)

    Specifications
    Speaker Type/Size: Component
    Resistance (Ohms): 4 ohms
    Built in Crossover: Yes
    Bottom Mount Depth (inches): 2-1/4
    Tweeter Design: 1" soft dome
    Tweeter Composition: Soft dome
    Woofer Composition: Polypropylene
    Woofer Surround: Rubber
    Peak Power handling: 280W
    RMS Power Range (Watts): 80
    Cutout Diameter or Length (inches): 5"
    Sensitivity: 86dB
    Frequency Response: 63Hz - 24kHz

    Dimensions
    Product Height 7" (without grille)
    Product Width 6-1/4" (without grille)
    Product Depth 6-1/4" (without grille)
    Product Weight 6.2 lbs

    Rear doors:
    Please reccomend. I was thinking set of 6.5" 2 way speakers.

    Sub:
    I want to stick with a good 10", clean bass..don't want the BOOM BOOM POW.

    Amp:
    Reccomend a good good 4way amp.
     
  2. nicad

    nicad Yes I am a troll

    6.5" are hard to fit in the rear doors iirc
     
  3. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    Nicad is correct plus there is really no need for rear speakers since they are only there for rear fill.

    Sub take your pick. There are many good woofers out there. Just make sure and not buy any of the gleabay junk woofers.

    JL, Image Dynamics, Elemental Designs, Rockford, etc...
     
  4. Alex

    Alex Community Founder Staff Member

    Ditch the rear speaker idea and go ahead and just seal up the rear doors; you'll thank yourself later.

    You'll want to either purchase proper speaker spacers from IA Performance or make your own from cutting boards (plastic) or MDF (don't forget to seal it!). There are several good companies out there for all of these components. What is your price range on the amp? Willing to buy used or new? The JL HD may be right up your alley.
     
  5. UpSideDownDesi

    UpSideDownDesi Active Member

    So no need for rears? Damn do they really no make that much of a diff?

    For sub i was thinking about Polk, Rockford JL, Kenwood or along the lines.

    Amp used or new, don't care. Audio system is last on my check list so cheaper everything costs the better.
     
  6. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    JL and rockford are the only two you listed I would go with. JL being on the top of that list. Kenwood and Polk have never made anything that impressed me.

    Rear speakers are for rear fill only. If you can hear them, then they are too loud. I still have the factory rear speakers in my car. Save your money and upgrade your front speakers and placement of front speakers.
     
  7. Alex

    Alex Community Founder Staff Member

    Don't take my word for it, let your ears decide. I felt that my sound quality improved when I removed the rear speakers. I would search craigslist and ebay for a 10" JL, and get one of their multi channel amps to mate to it. The money you save on not purchasing rears could go towards RAAMat, et al for your fender wells and front doors.

    We also have a local that sells high quality sound components. They may be out of your price range, but it never hurts to purchase quality with a warranty. Send a PM to slade1274.
     
  8. UpSideDownDesi

    UpSideDownDesi Active Member

    Really, didn't know. When sitting in rear, did removing the rear speakers make any difference in sound?

    I already PMed slade to get his opinion on it also.
     
  9. yerrow

    yerrow Active Member

    who cares about the people sitting in the back?

    many of us, myself included that only run 1 sub with front door components and no-one would ever know that there aren't any rear speakers
     
  10. cannarella

    cannarella Member

    Go out and spend some time with Slade1274 and sit in his car to hear his setup and get some advice.
     
  11. Mad Mallard

    Mad Mallard the mad mallard

    I totally disagree that having no rear fill is good in a car. To each his own tho...

    Your biggest difference is first the power. A good amp (stand alone or head unit) can let even pretty crumby speakers sound decent. And the stock headunit's amp is anything but decent power.

    And I mean most people i've put in a simple Kenwood or Alpine HU for were like 'wow' when it was the same whizzercone oem speakers still in it.


    If you stick with those components for the front, you'll definitely need some power with a sensitivity of only 86dB...
     
  12. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member


    Well, if you are trying to reproduce music correctly it is completely wrong to have a huge rear fill presence.

    When you are at a concert facing the stage, do you hear the music from behind or in front of you?
     
  13. Alex

    Alex Community Founder Staff Member

    Unless you're trying to recreate a dobly HD THX experience in your car (not to mention all the speaker locations are incorrect), I still don't see how the rears are justified. If you're going to do, you could consider 6x8s in the rear deck...or just mount two 8s in the rear deck with a IB setup in the trunk.

    As sitting in my rear seats...You barely hear much since your leg covers that tiny speaker hole to begin with. And finally, if I have someone in my rear seat odds are it's a full car and we're all talking, not listening to music.

    I have been extremely happy with my 6.5" component front setup, single 10 in the trunk and single amp powering all three. The only thing I am not happy with is my AVIC-D3 :)
     
  14. Mad Mallard

    Mad Mallard the mad mallard

    when in the car, because of the car (especially ours) limitation, imaging takes a back seat to tone IMO.

    Having no sound at all from the back allows a hole in your experience. I don't care how much its being attenuated by being low in the door.

    yes you do, reflectivity in a concert, especially dynamic ones (meaning anything but rock concerts), you hear reflection, reverberation, and exponential decay depending on the size of the room.

    But again, thats all straight imaging and position of a soundspace. I'm talking just a pure tonal experience, which is what I place a priority on in a car that has severe handicaps to overcome to have good imaging.
     
  15. UpSideDownDesi

    UpSideDownDesi Active Member

    This is something i was also thinking about or adding some 4" coaxial in the rear door and some 6x8 3 ways on rear deck (might be overkill), but will level out the sound to ear leven in the rear.

    I was thinking about getting the AVIC-D3. What is that you don't like about it?
     
  16. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    You are absolutely correct and in a closed environment, such as a car, with glass to reflect sound there is no need for rear fill. Same thing as a purest at home that has two front speakers positioned correctly with a stereo tube amp.

    With technology these days, a good head unit that has time alignment can do wonders in a car without making it sound over processed. I just dont see the point in trying to get a good tonal experience from your rear speakers? Spend some money and time on your front stage. Speaker placement and a good set of component speakers in the front can do wonders. I think Slade has a pair of front components and a sub. That is the perfect setup if you can get the stage and imaging correct. When I use to judge IASCA contests, the best sounding cars I heard were with minimal speakers.
     
  17. Alex

    Alex Community Founder Staff Member

    @MadMallard: I see what you're saying, and understand the basis for the argument. Nevertheless, I just think we're at a loss to pursue it any further. I believe we can all agree that the inside of the Subaru is certainly not designed with acoustics in mind (short of making the exhaust reverb louder). Eddie makes a great point on the time alignment, but I would guess that almost everyone on here with an aftermarket headunit does not take advantage of this feature (assuming their unit even as this feature). What NSV is looking for, at the most basic level, is not the pursuit of purist sound quality, but rather something that "works" on his budget that doesn't leave him up the creek.

    @NSV: The GUI design is just god-awful and the ipod navigation leaves much to be desired. The GUI received a major update with the F series and is much easier to work through. The biggest gripe I have is that it takes forever to cycle through artsits/albums/podcasts/etc on the D3. There is no option to jump letter to letter or view all letters at once and select "D" for example. Rather, you have to literally scroll through the pages (of which it displays something like 5 blocks at a time) till you get what you want. I find myself constantly asking if a letter is in the first half or the second half of the alphabet. This way I know whether or not I want to scroll down from Z or scroll up from A :rofl: I am sure some will scoff at the fact that I use my ipod almost exclusively. Scoff all you want, it's all FLAC 24 bit needle rips converted to Apple Lossless :fawk:

    The icing on the cake, however, is that they put the "Pause" button right above the "Shuffle All" button. God forbid you hit a bump when you want to pause a song and hit the shuffle all by accident because you'll be spending another 5 minutes getting back to the artist you were listening to before. All and all, they are a great unit for the price (used). You'd be hard pressed to find something as capable for under $400. The unit is a great example of how engineers are invited to the product discussion and designers are left to sit outside, listening through the door.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2010
  18. Mad Mallard

    Mad Mallard the mad mallard

    The reflectivity in a concert is a musician emitting sound directed toward the audience and backplate or wall. You don't get any direct reflections from the rear windshield from speakers in a door; only in the dash and a-pillar can this happen.

    Its the same reasoning you have for not wanting rear speakers, I agree its nearly impossible to get favorable imaging from those speakers down in the door. Stuff is in the way. I'm not disagreeing with that.

    But reproducing music 'correctly' is a subjective experience. We use certain mechanically measurable statistics as a way-point, but it is most definitely not the end conclusion of a good musical experience.

    If it was, Bose whom notoriously ducks any effective scientific measure possible, wouldn't have revenues around $2 billion, and have fanatically satisfied customers. :/

    My whole point is that tone is at least just as important as imaging. And my opinion is that tone takes an unsatisfying hit with no rear fill in a car, completely irrespective of a consideration for imaging.

    You may not get the same tonal experience I do from the rears. You may, but still prefer to focus on imaging instead. But...

    ...I'm not saying anyone is right. thats my point.

    But I will take exception to factually claim it bad to have any rear fill. In my opinion, the hole in the sound was worse for my experience. thats all i'm saying, and we all know what an opinion is worth. ;p

    Try running with them turned off first for a while as a sample before throwing them out and decide.

    (Personally, i run component fronts and a sub. I still have stockers running in the rear only because I wanted matching speakers, but they discontinued the line of my components before I could get matching speakers for the doors. :[ )
    ----

    How about what we can agree on? Both imaging AND tone improve ALOT with some well placed deadening, along with efficiency and road-noise control. :) At lease use some on the door's inside part where you mount the speaker, and at least a little bit behind the speaker on the body panel.
     
  19. Bug-Rex

    Bug-Rex Active Member

    If you want to run rear speakers, I just put a pair of 4" Kicker components in my heep. They sound awesome for being so small and they are only $30 on Crutchfield.

    Just my .02
     
  20. AutoxSTi

    AutoxSTi Member

    Noooo, don't run rear speakers!!! Such a waste of $$$. Spend the the money and get kick panels built. You'll be much happier. Less power and volume is needed since it's almost a direct angle.

    BTW, David Navone and Richard Clark wrote something about 4x6 and 6x9 having cone breakup at higher volumes and close to near X-max as supposed to the 5.5 and 6.5 drivers.
     
  21. Alex

    Alex Community Founder Staff Member

    LMK if you're interested in the D3. I know I wrote one hell of a sales pitch in post #17 :)
     
  22. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    Agreed on the round vs oval speakers.
     
  23. Sparta

    Sparta Active Member

    If you find something at Fry's let me know. I usually get good discounts on car audio.
     
  24. UpSideDownDesi

    UpSideDownDesi Active Member

    Now, I am looking at some Polk Audio 6.5" Components/Tweeters. If anyone wants my Kenwood 6.5" Components $50 and they are your's ($120 new). Didn't hear about the 6x9 going pop.

    Alex you have a PM
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2010
  25. blaster

    blaster my other ride is your mom Supporting Member

  26. UpSideDownDesi

    UpSideDownDesi Active Member

    Picked up Polk Audio DXI6500 speakers
    http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/dxi/index.php?s=dxi6500

    -10" Polk Audio Sub
    http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/dxi/index.php?s=dxi104

    Now time for an 4 channel amp. The premium speaker upgrade from Subaru = garbage. I am not even a big speaker guy, but finally i had it. I can't wait to pull these things out.

    Edit: Thinking about Rockford Fosgate P400-4 amp....no enough or too much...thoughts?
    http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?item_id=108230
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2010
  27. Alex

    Alex Community Founder Staff Member

    Nice. You can put them in your boat when summer rolls around to boot! :)
     
  28. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    I would get a bigger amp but that is a nice choice on an amp. Does RF make a 4X100 amp?
     
  29. yerrow

    yerrow Active Member

    how about this, RF's entry line but alittle mo powah for a very little $
     
  30. Matt

    Matt Think before you post Staff Member Supporting Member

    I think you forgot the link. :)
     
  31. UpSideDownDesi

    UpSideDownDesi Active Member

    Didn't see it. These speakers can handle something lil more powerful so still looking around, but this seemed like an nice option to start with.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2010
  32. slade1274

    slade1274 Member

    How are you going to run the 4 channels? Two for the front components and then bridge two for the sub? Rockford has always made solid equipment IMHO.

    I do still have a barely used 3 channel DLS like the one Alex is running.
    http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_114

    I also have a BNIB Hertz HP4x available... (lots of power, but bigger chassis)
    http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/Doc/hertz_EP4x_tech_eng.pdf

    I've also got a class D 6 channel by a company called ZukiAudio that can be configured many ways- but it is a big tank of an amplifer....
     
  33. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    yuuummm...that hertz amp looks real nice:)
     
  34. Alex

    Alex Community Founder Staff Member

    Nice Hertz amp. Wonder what difference I'd hear with that bad boy installed versus the DLS. Does Hertz provide a more warm sound compared to DLS or is it a bit more crisp / accentuated?
     
  35. yerrow

    yerrow Active Member

  36. slade1274

    slade1274 Member

    Probably not much. It take double the power to get a 3db increase, so going from 70 to 100 watts won't give you much of a perceived level difference. As far as the "sound"'; they are both class A/B topology so they will have the same "sound". I have not done an a-b comparison of them directly, so I can't comment specifically as to any difference in "tonality". Many out there subscribe that there is no difference in the "sound" of an amplifier; but I believe there to be an inherent "voice" do to the coloration of the signal as the amp does it's thing. Those mentioned previous would argue that only amplifiers flawed in design will demonstrate such an attribute as in doing so the amp is adding distortion to the signal path; and a properly designed amplifier does not alter the signal- it only "makes it bigger".


    All that being said, my demo board runs off the Hertz amp and I have the DLS on the shelf. An a-b test could be done
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2010
  37. Matt

    Matt Think before you post Staff Member Supporting Member

    I might be intersted in the DLS if you upgrade..
     
  38. slade1274

    slade1274 Member

    Depends on how you define "upgrade"... the DLS is the more expensive of the two....
     
  39. Matt

    Matt Think before you post Staff Member Supporting Member

    shhh...don't tell him that!

    :p
     
  40. UpSideDownDesi

    UpSideDownDesi Active Member

    Yea i was planning on running the components on 2 and then bridging the 2 for sub.

    Can you PM the prices of the DLS and Hertz.

    Also is IAperformance spacers the only option out there? I was thinking about going to a local shop and just have them make some spacers.
     
  41. slade1274

    slade1274 Member

  42. UpSideDownDesi

    UpSideDownDesi Active Member

    Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
  43. UpSideDownDesi

    UpSideDownDesi Active Member

    Looks like I am going all Polk Audio. Finally picked up Polk Audio DXI104 10" Sub & box.
    http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/dxi/index.php?s=dxi104

    I have a brand new 12" Kicker Comp12 that I never used (still in box), anyone that wants it, yours for $70 (paid $104.xx for it).
     

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