better save your pennies. im gonna get one of those at the same time i get a gobstopper sequential rally transmission... by the time you had that thing installed with the special electric water pump and dry sump you could probably by a GTR. im also very curios as to how well it will handle heat removal. lots of extra metal on that motor.
Yeah lots of metal. But interesting to see it happen....those Aussies are crazy. From research it seems this is a $10k block....not counting the internals like crank, rods, etc.
regardless of practicality, good info in that video for someone new to subarus if they wanted to learn more about what everyone is always talking about with weak points in the engine and such
agreed with Jake but hell I'd rather beat the hell out of 5 LB's for that price and STILL come out ahead
All that info should be taken with a grain of salt, most of what they are talking about is only theory. They have "fixed" some problems that don't really exist. Don't misunderstand me that block is cool but the only people it makes sense for are people shooting for over 800hp. They said something about it being capable of being run with a wet sump setup but there are no oil returns machined for the heads. Maybe that block was finished with a dry sump in mind. If thats the case you will have to have suction on the bottom of each head as well. Cool idea but no practical for most.
At one time everything you do to your engines was also theory......it's called INNOVATION. Cool idea yes....and yes not practical either.....neither are Alpha packages on the GT-R's.
Practical is a point of reference based off preferences and budget. I once saw an article on a guy who had Ferrari's but loved to drive is full built STI on a daily basis. Was it practical to throw that much money (it was extreme) into the car? Not for you and me, but to him...sure. He loved the car and had more money than all of us combined probably. A lot of those Alpha GT-R owners are the same way. So for someone, this motor might be practical because they want it and they are an enthusiast.
The numbers I have been hearing on that block are between 7k and 10k so just to give everyone an idea on what it cost to build an engine like that. Block 10k Crank 3k Rods $1400 Pistons $1500 Rings $300 Machine Work $2000 Fasteners $1500 Dry Sump $4000 Heads (total) $6000-8000 WRC Timing Belt setup 6000-10000 These are the kind of parts you put on a 10k dollar billet block, you don't run manley h-beams in it. Thats over 35k dollars in parts and machine work and I didn't include assembly. When you are dealing with a engine like that we are probably talking about $1500 to $2000 in just the assembly. Don't get me wrong I love the idea of the billet block but its unlikely any of us will see one in person.
because the kit runs 70% of the purchase price for the car. It is not practical no matter who you are or how much money you have.
A alpha 9 kit isn't that expensive. If I remember correctly its right around 24k. Performance per dollar ratio is very high. The reality is A GTR with a Alpha 9 kit and basic suspension is a hard car to beat period.
That is a matter of opinion not fact. I see it as a practical way to have a 9 second daily driver that is actually daily drivable. Also, if you are going to make percentage of value as a means of determining practicality...I know of far more Subaru's that run around with modification totals that are MORE than the car is worth at the time than GT-R's...
Using percentage of value is a poor poor value of practicality. Bottom line is if the owners happy who cares!
agreed, there are different levels of practicality for every enthusiast, but $35k for a motor alone?! that's not even practical for a GOOD deal of RACE teams. i took out the bit about GT-R's because i know next to nothing about the aftermarket for them.
Solid block, filled block or sleeved w/deck doesn't matter with this type of motor. It wouldn't be used as a daily so normal cooling duties are pointless. Ball it looked milled for oil to the heads when he spun the case halves to show the deck, look at 2:50 top right of cylinder two.
I guess the point I was making is the Rich (who can afford to do such a build)don't do it for practicality they do it because they can
My point is that "being practical" has nothing to do with money. A Smart Car is not practical for my uses but it might be for someone else with different circumstances. It all depends on the needs of the individual. And "the Rich" that I know do nothing just "because they can". If they acted like that with everything in life...they wouldn't have their money very long. They had a want...they had the means to do it...and they enjoy their hobby just like we do. There are plenty of people in this world that we judge you for owning a STI saying it isn't practical. Who needs to go that fast anyway? Premium gas and synthetic oil changes? Only 23 mpg?
whats practical about a 30000 sq ft house for one couple no kids? I'm there once a week and he has 7 cars and 2 drivers. While he can do it and SHOULD do it so our gov't doesn't get it all one day. but there is nothing practical about any of it. we can disagree
I think they do it because they have a passion, regardless of how 'impractical' we think it is. Hell, I'm building a street legal go kart with a corvette drivetrain - let me know where the practicality in that stands. However, I enjoy fabrication and I love new challenges. This isn't about practicality, it's about the self satisfaction and happiness one gets from doing something they enjoy. I would imagine the would-be buyers of a motor like this operate along the same lines. That said...lawl...that's impractical as shit
Nothing impractical about your Locost......unless you are intended to DD it. Like already said....those that get this....will be building a track monster that stomps all. I just thought it was cool to see advancements and innovation coming to the engine side of things cause there is no engine builder in the US doing anything special to the EJ motors.
Ill have to disagree with you there, there is plenty of innovation going on here in the U.S. Maxwell Power and 3MI are both doing +2mm long rod engines and +4mm Destrokers. We have a +4mm long rod 2.5 coming shortly and a +6mm 2.2. Lots of high compression builds starting to pop up that everyone previously said wouldn't work. A couple of companies working on head programs that I think will be very good (better than Cosworth) We are machining EJ207 heads to accept USDM cam sensors and cams so customers can run them on USDM cars. I've even talked with a manufacturer about doing cylinder heads for the Subaru but its very expensive and they are concerned about ROI. But its something that is still being looked into. I personally thing that what Maxwell Power and 3MI have come up with as far as the long rod engines goes is a much more significant development than the Billet cases. It also applies to a lot more people. There is plenty of innovation going on here in the U.S. some of it is being talked about some of it isn't, not every shop has the budget to develop a billet aluminum block, I'm glad there are shops that do, I just wish I could justify getting one. But even at the highest levels of time attack I don't see that block as being a viable option.
Long rods, high compression, destroker? Those been around for YEARS. I talked with Maxwell about all those options when I first bought my WRX in 2005. All of your engines, Maxwell's, and 3MI are pretty much the same thing with different packages. Old INNOVATION....nothing new. Not that there's anything wrong with all you ya'lls stuff....they are all great builds and flat out work. But to take a big block of aluminum and cut out that block with all those galley's and stuff just amazed me and I was glad to see it being done for a Subaru. Quit trying to plug your business.......this thread isn't about that or trying to take away from it (which is impossible purely due to cost).
The destroker concept hasn't really been around that long, I know Dom has been doing them for a while but there are only dyno results for about 3 or 4 of them. He might have had a long rod motor back then but it wasn't a destroker. What we are doing and what they are doing are two completely different things. Different approaches to the long rod etc. The two don't really compare well. Again no trying to take anything away from the Billet Block its cool but if they wanted to be really innovative they would have added some deck height and figured out how to make the timing system work so we could add more stroke and rod length and still get the engine geometry we need to make power. Subarus have plenty of problems and the engine cases are certainly one of them but there are lots of other issues that need to be addressed. As far as plugging my business goes that certainly wasn't my intention. We don't even have our long rod parts ready for production yet, its hard to sell a product you don't have. Edit: The long rods that have been around for years are the same ones that Crawford uses and its 1.25mm longer than a factory STI rod 5.181 vs 5.137. It doesn't provide enough benefit for the cost.
Looks like they started to cut it but didn't finish, also it looks like its going to be smaller than the factory return but its hard to tell since its not done.
At least Ball is a paying vendor plugging his business in a relevant thread. Pull the stick out of your ass for a minute
I dunno...Tesla made $40mil in presales on the new cross over SUV they announced last week. http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120215/AUTO01/202150331/1148/rss25
thats how tesla makes money, they are an investment company. lol along with his other companies, Elon Musk relies HEAVILY on pre-production investors, angels, early adopters, and waiting lists. He is the next NASA after Obama shut it down, the government gave him HUGE $$$$ to go to space and he's closer in 1/16th of the time it would've taken NASA to do it.
a bit off topic, but that's not NASA's fault. They released a report last year saying if they had one half of one years defense budget they could have a fully functioning base on Mars within a decade. They're hands are tied b/c our fucked up government would rather bomb towel heads over misguided public conceptions than actually progress science and human exploration outside of our atmosphere.
Yet Tesla needed 465 million of our money to "make" that 40 million. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...36nzBg&usg=AFQjCNFpVbD4NIDlGd_TnRjPLkXNoBNmwg on top of 330 million from DOE loans. Regardless, billet blocks and electric cars are pretty much a dead end and/or a pointless exercise in monetary waste.
Dom and Micah's motors were born around the same time - they were (and still are) pretty good friends, although they live a few thousand miles apart now. Most of this was developed when everyone lived in virginia beach around 2006 if I remember right. drank many a beer with those two