It saves them trust me. There are other companies that do the same thing and there are statistics that back it.
fine don't believe me. I really don't care. How many of you guys have work in manufacturing industries or sold to the car industry?
Butt hurt much? I'm just saying the stats from esp car industries tend to be very misleading. Like Subaru's claim that less than 1% of turbo 2.5L have ring land failures.
For every person that doesn't pursue a warranty claim it saves them since payment stops at the claim adjuster and the customer pays for the labor and rebuild. By approving the claim they automatically eat the cost of the parts and tech's salary to do the job.
The claims adjusters also might have incentive programs in place where they are compensated for the amount of money they are saving the company. They are also paid salary/hourly regardless. That is a cost of doing business where motor replacements and warranties paid out to dealers is not a fixed amount. It can be controlled to an extent.
I have pictures of all of the damage, the dealership tech that disassembled my motor is actually a really cool and nice guy and has been trying to help me out along the way. He doesn't get it either, and believes it should be covered under warranty as well. In fact everyone I have spoken with at the two dealerships have eventually said that they don't get why it hasn't been taken care of yet, and SOA must suspect some sort of abuse on my part (they can't claim maintenance that's for sure). But all they have told me is they think it ran low on oil at some point (but can't prove it). Being at another dealership might make a difference, but I have talked with the two that are local and neither can really do anything at this point. It is already in SOA's hands and I do have a claim # (which I finally got after asking several times). I still have not received a log of what has been happening of the field inspection report that I requested though. I went and looked at the oil pickup tube and it looks ok, so I don't believe it is cracked. I snapped a few pictures of it. As far as the automatic denial policies go, I'm sure it does save them money based on only an internal examination of expenses. But they are not considering the bad reputation that is being generated from the mistreatment of customers. While it is most likely impossible to quantify, it needs to be considered. It is the same situation with never recalling anything. All those problems with wrx pistons in 2008, apparently a wiring problem with 2006-2007 wrx/stis. Not only are the problems not being corrected, the customer has to fight to get anything done under warranty. That reputation spreads and costs thousands in lost new car sales. My girlfriend was about to buy a BRZ right before this happened. She picked out options and built a car and everything. After seeing first hand what I'm going through do you think she would ever buy a Subaru? Hell no! My father was going to buy a 2015 wrx, now he's waiting for the Golf R. After seeing my experience would you trust Subaru? The sad part is I'm not the only one. Before this I loved Subaru and all the cars they make. Especially the STI's. It is not my wish or intention to hurt Subaru, but I will not stand for this and I WILL talk about my experience. I shared my thoughts on Subaru when I loved the brand, why would I not share for the opposite?
Haven't heard anything from you ryan, I assume SOA still giving you 48hr notices between each conversation like they did with me. I just wanted to mention something here. FHI (Fuji Heavy Industries) and subaru of japan are very very different then SOA (subaru of america) and SONE (subaru of new england) which are the representatives of the brand on our soil. It was very difficult for me to seperate the two when I was enduring my patience testing process with SOA. SOA did not build, engineer, assemble or design your car, they are simply trying to get out of paying any money to help you. While it's easy to let that deter you from the brand , I would try as hard as you can not do let that happen. Japanese people, men especially, carry an unrivaled sense of morality when it comes to running a business and producing goods or services. You often hear of japanese business men taking their own lives when they made major errors in business. While this may be excessive, it's a window into their priorities which are 180deg from what you are experiencing now. In summary, don't let the shitty business tactics of the american branch of the business deter you from a quality product made, produced, engineered & designed by absolute professionals in another country who do NOT behave this way or carry these types of priorities. Believe you me I was pissed when they treated me the way they did, whether I was right or wrong wasn't relevant, you should still be treated like a mature adult which I was not, but eventually I got past it and my wife and I both own 2013 subaru's and we love them.
digitizedsoul, I appreciate the kind words, but I'm just so angry with SOA right now that I cannot enjoy my car or the brand any longer. It finally came to a head today, and SOA offered to cover parts only on "goodwill". They still cannot explain to me what happened or when, but they are still denying the claim stating the oil level was low at some point and it is my fault. I turned down the offer and stated that I want the entire car covered as it should under warranty. Gerilyn Carr once again denied it, and said that this is the end of the customer service process. I informed her that I contacted the BBB, the FTC, and the GA governor's office of consumer affairs and filed a complaint with each one. Also the vehicle has been out of service for more than 30 days and is eligible for coverage under the lemon law. I will be starting that process and they have 20 days to either replace or repurchase the vehicle. I am so tired and frustrated with this whole thing. I cannot believe I am having to do this, and it will take months to get a resolution. I am being completely screwed here and SOA just doesn't care. It is unbelievable. I know what you're saying Digital, but right now I hate Subaru and everything they stand for, and if you are a potential buyer and reading this, my advice is DO NOT buy a Subaru under warranty, because you have no warranty. Digital, can you send me the information of the people you know who went through the lemon law process and won? I would like to speak to them and maybe get a recommendation for an attorney depending on cost.
^^ Honestly, this thread made me decide not to get another Subaru as my next car. If I do, it'll be used, out of warranty type.
Yeah.... I'm pretty much praying at this point that my engine doesn't blow up, and will be moving on to another brand after this car...
Wow, what a kick in the teeth. They really are fantastic cars, I had my 2002 WRX at the track this past week-end and we had a blast. To bad thier great product is screwed by thier horrible customer service. Stetson
You should put this up on Nasioc as well if you haven't already. Also, lawyer up. I'm merely an armchair lawyer but I would be you can roll your legal fees into any settlement you get from SOA.
I really hate to do this to the brand, but it is just unacceptable to treat a customer this way after producing a defective product. I loved my 2004 STI, it was so much fun and I never had a problem in 40k miles. If you asked me two months ago about Subaru I had only good things to say. Now........well I'm sure you can guess. Both my father and girlfriend changed their mind about buying Subaru's after my situation, and they were both ready to buy (my father wanted a 2015 wrx BAD). I really hope Subaru sees this thread and realizes that treating a customer this way has repercussions. I am going to look into local news media to see what I can do to get my store publicity. Wow I just checked on the BBB new Jersey site and SOA has an F rating. That is accurate I would say.
I have it up on nasioc and iwsti. If I win the lemon law arbitration then attorney fees can be included in the award. As well as all other expenses, rental cars, inspection costs all of that. It just doesn't make any sense that they won't cover it now when it will cost them so much more down the road. Plus the bad publicity.
As a 13 owner who continues to run a stock tune to maintain my warranty, this makes me nervous and upset that SOA doesn't treat their customers the way they should. Thanks for keeping us in the loop on the developments so I have better idea of whats in store if I need "support" from SOA.
Just an opinion but I feel that the Factory tunes these cars to the ragged edge to meet CAFE standards which combined with shitty US gas quality ends with blown motors. Can you name any other make that has ten years of consistent ring land failures and toasted bearings? It's like the EJ platform was designed by the same GM imagineers who came up with the failed ignition cylinders
Wish they had a non 50 state legal car that didn't have to meet CA emissions. They could do like in Europe where you have to have a window decal to drive in certain areas. You'd be ticketed for violations. Certain cars would not be eligible for the decal. Maybe manufacturers would have to lower their standards so much.
I hate that my BRZ is the first Subaru I have ever owned that has used oil (about half a quart per 7000 miles). I have had 2 WRX's (04 was "Stage 2" and 06 stock) and 2 STI's (08 stock and 2011 was "stage 1"). Each car had about 60K miles on it when I traded or, in the case of the 04, wrecked it. No oil consumption at all. The level seemed to never move on the stick through out the oil change cycle. Those engines were still solid. I do admit to driving about 75% highway/interstate. I don't know if that is a factor. I don't deny that there are engine failures. I think 1% is low but 10% would be pushing it on the high end. I think 4-6% is probably close and still higher than anyone would like to see (SOA or us, the consumer). I think for every 1 case like this, Subaru has to deal with a dozen or more that were flogged to within an inch of its life and abused. Will a thread like this deter me from buying a Subaru? Probably not. I feel I am just as likely to have issues with any car make no matter who the manufacturer. I am sure if I buy a luxury car I will get better CS when I go to the dealer. I have looked at new and used models luxury brands (Audi and BMW). The overall maintenance cost of those cars scare me away. That is not to say that maintaining a STI is cheap, but it is not BMW, Merc and Audi expensive either. I don't deny that SOA has done a poor job (understatement) at handling this. I don't know the OP. If he is being honest (and I think he is), then SOA has made a mistake on this and should replace the engine under warranty. I hope you the best. Has the dealer stepped up and tried to help you or have they washed their hands of it and are just watching from the sidelines?
Don't think there's a difference between the two anymore. I know that C.A.R.B. and EPA standards are the same when it comes to aftermarket parts. Hence the shit ton of "off-road only" parts being sold
Tuning for the 91 octane fuel sold in Cali and other states is an issue. Several manufacturers have blamed the fuel for not bringing over their hot engines from Europe and Asia.
I spoke to Subaru of Gwinnett today and they would do absolutely nothing for me. They would not discount the labor one bit. It will $3,000 in labor, and I asked for them to at least discount it to at cost labor that way it would not cost them anything, and NO. They would not discount it one dollar. Extremely unhappy about that, and I couldn't even talk with the parts and service manager in person. I have to e-mail him, what a joke. They basically said, "Sucks for you, sorry". Maybe Stivers will help, they did do the last oil change and I bought the car from them. I'm hoping they actually care.
Herb Hoffman @ SOG is a complete scumbag, read it, SCUMBAG. I know you are reading this too herbie, and you know exactly who I am, and you know exactly why I have this opinion of you. Hell I had his home and cell # but they won't do you a bit of good, he's a gatekeeper at best and really the only authority he has over anything is the loaner that they most likely gave you. Man this thread makes me mad.
You will almost certainly end up just like me, especially if you don't lemon the car. If that's the case, i'll gladly help you rebuild it in my garage free of charge just buy your parts and show up.
He's better off getting rid of the car than doing that. Or getting a shop that knows what they are doing fix it.
My advice really depends on what you want to do with the car. If you want to keep it - Have a reputable shop throw in a forged piston short block now since you are already having to replace those parts anyway. That will be better down the road as you don't want to run into ringland issues. Have a reputable tuner tune it and enjoy the car. It will cost more money but it will be running and reliable. If SOA is giving you a block or the parts, you can sell those or use them for the build to save some money. If you want to get rid of it - Get it put back to together the cheapest way possible and sell it or drive it to CarMax. Luckily, there is still a high demand for the car so they do not depreciate much at all. Get a stock short block in there and call it a day. This is all assuming there is not further action by SOA or the lemon law route.
no confidence and lack of motion I'd dump the car and move on to something else and never ever look back.
Considering he didn't want to discount it 1 cent, I agree. You warned me about him and I definitely believe you now. It doesn't look like I can lemon the car. I called that lemon law expert back at the governors office of CP and explained it to him again. This time he said it probably wouldn't qualify since it has not been in for repairs this whole time. I guess he didn't understand the situation fully the first time. So court is my only option. Man I really appreciate that. I am so temped to build the motor and keep the car, but if anything else breaks it will be a horrible fight all over again. If anything in the trans or driveline goes out I'm totally screwed and out a bunch of cash again. I'm waiting to hear back, but hopefully they will help me out. At this point I don't have much trust or faith. I believe Digital knows what he's doing, and I have built and installed motors in previous cars. Like I said the problem is I will lose the "warranty" (if it can be called that, more like an empty promise) on the rest of the car if I build it. Like I said, I'm really tempted to just build it and have it the way I want. But if anything does go out they will deny that claim in a heartbeat and not give two poops. I was thinking hard about a built short block and a 2.5xtr and make around 330-350whp. It would be a blast, but I'm so pissed about everything now it's honestly ruining the car for me. If anyone but the dealer does the repair it will be a fight to have any future work covered. And I'll be losing 3,000 to fix it and whatever I lose off the sale price from new. If I did build the motor and make around 350whp, what do you guys think I could sell it for? Freshly built with around 15,000 miles on the car? If I can still get decent money selling it the build might be worth it. I gotta get it fixed first. That is what the whole debate is about. Would you just pay the 3 grand to have the dealer fix it and then sell it? I'd be losing a lot of money I shouldn't have to pay in the first place. That's what is eating me up.
I imagine if the goal is to get out of the car as cleanly as possible (assuming no court) then your best bet is to get the new shortblock, return to stock (sell wheels, exhaust and suspension) and trade it in for another brand. It highly unlikely anyone would pay you for what you would need to put into to have it "built". If you are going to keep it though and you know that the warranty is already meaningless, I'd be real tempted to at least put better piston and rods and oil pickup while its out. I'm sure others will have more informed advice though.
If you keep it... I wouldn't have the dealership fix it. Too many things go wrong with a spun bearing or even bearing material coming apart. New cam gears, oil cooler, heads should be thoroughly cleaned. Costly things I expect a dealership to cut corners on especially with the mindset they have had about helping you so far. If they'd provide you the parts, I'd team up with digital and DIY. You could get a stock shortblock and some graded manley pistons and not have to do any machine work, but you'd be blind about the bearing clearances. Or just tear it all down and do it up nice. If you let the dealer fix it, I'd off load it.
If you are looking to make 350whp and keep the car, the Dom2.5 is not what you want. I made 417whp/430wtq on the 1.5 on 93. The 1.5 is the go to stock location turbo unless you want to go rotated. Keep in mind though...you'll need more than just a turbo if you are going to increase the power so those costs can go up as well but the car is a TON of fun at that power range and reliable. The nice thing about a STI is the last thing you have to worry about is drivetrain. If it wasn't for the motor...it would actually be a very reliable car. That trans, dif and everything else can handle a serious beating with a ton of power.
Thanks man, if you need me you can easily find me. Belay the naysayers, they do not post in your thread out of empathy let me just put it that way.
Bwahahahaha the track record says other wise. That's all I'm gonna say. If you want to keep it just buy a Topspeed shortblock, slap it together and go with a Dom 1.5....that turbo is the best stock location turbo money can buy. If you are tainted by the entire experience then I would just let Subaru fix it and trade that thing in.
$3k is nothing when compared to other things that can go wrong when you start tearing the motor apart and building for more HP. I would say get Subaru to fix it for $3k and trade it in on another car.....I promise you that you are coming out ahead by only losing $3k.
BIG UPDATE I finally got the call from SOA Monday. They are finally willing to cover all the repair costs, BUT (there is always a but with SOA) it will not be warranty work. It will be covered under "goodwill" and the new engine will still be covered under the factory powertrain warranty. So it is not a "one time goodwill repair". Basically the only difference from warranty and goodwill in this case is what they are calling it. So thank god that is resolved, it only took a month and a half lol! So Who knows when I'll get the car back, probably two weeks or so. I haven't decided whether I want to keep it or not, not completely sure. This whole thing has really ruined it for me to be honest. Lol my friends are huge DSM fans so I hear that daily with all this going on. Thanks Digital, but it looks like SOA is finally taking care of me. Part of me still wants to yank the brand new engine out and build it lol. That is really depressing to only lose $3k and be coming out ahead. Thank god Subaru is covering it lol.
I suggest you keep it, and start setting aside money now for what you want to do to it in the future. If they are willing to let you keep the case halves, GRAB them. Also your story is so public and your name established with them now (just like mine lol) so if this happens to you again (God help us all) they will be hard pressed to give you grief again. Just my $0.02 coming from the same situation and now am on the other side making 414whp just on a break in tune. The GR STI is one of the most fun cars i've ever driven when the power starts getting up there. The fact that it just grips and goes is so addictive.
So my thinking makes me believe they're doing some of this under goodwill to avoid hitting a certain number before they have to create a recall or even bulletin which would just lead to a recall in the end. What do you guys think am I being all conspiracy theory? Good to see it's taken care of though.