Choice between tuners?

Hello everyone, I am sorry if this is not the right place for this type of discussion. I figured these forums would be the best place to ask my question.
Tuning my 2015 STI is in the near future, and I have an option between two shops:
Forged Motorsports &
TopSpeed Motorsports
It is my understanding that both locations have very competent tuners in their fields, but, who is the better one for our (my) specific vehicle.
For those of you that have personal experiences, or would like to share your opinion as to why one would be an advantage over the other, thanks in advance.

 

I got mine tuned at Subaru of Gwinnett way back when Scott S. was still there.

 

go with the cheaper.

I've read good and bad from both.

Doug at topspeed makes power, but I've seen people complain of instances of knock on their drive home. Possibly too aggressive of a tune??? I know they are a sponser and can defend them selves but some guys out this way were bumped off the dyno/ to the back of the line for GTR's and other higher end customers. Maybe Mike will turn that around to drum up the subaru business again.

Shariff tuned a friends sti and it put down the same numbers another guy got from Motionlab with injectors and rails. In fact I am driving that car this week trying to isolate the tranny noise (tranny mount or shifter mount) and was amazed at how smooth it is. Honestly forgot a subaru could drive like that. Shariff's reputation has been tarnished, but my experience with him really impressed me.

Scott tunes for Forged on Monday's (that was my experience with Forged) I wanted a Scott tune but it couldn't be done in one night and just unraveled at the seams. For a simpler tune, that's what I'd hold out for

 

I agree, Sharif ' s reputation has been tarnished but he has been daily driving an Sti for a few years now and has built up a bit of experience with the chassis. He currently dailies a 15 and regularly spends his weekends driving it in the mountains.

I will also add that I was standing next to him in Texas roadhouse earlier tonight and a random guy walked up to him and thanked him for tuning his GTR yesterday and expressed how smooth it was afterwards.

I'd say give him a call and see what he can do for you, he's tuned a couple of 2015 ' s already.

 

And then of course we have site sponsors like QED getting a start here working hand in hand with Allpro.

 

Thanks for all the input.
Sharif works out of which shop? And why do you say his reputation has been tarnished?
And Justin, Mike is the guy at TopSpeed I was directly dealing with. He seemed pretty helpful over the phone, even offered to let me come check out his 15' because I'm still waiting on mine...
So pretty much it comes down to Mike, Scott, or Sharif as your go-to tuners for Subaru's?

 

Doug tunes for TopSpeed, Mike if I am not mistaken is the sales guy there and just purchased a white 2015. Sharif and Scott tune at forged.

 

I'm in the same position right now trying to decide on who to use for my stage 2 08.

 

I've heard good and bad at both. I would just talk to them and get a feeling for yourself on who you want to spend your hard earned money on.

 

64k miles with a lot of power (400+ on pump gas Dom 1.5) on my 2011 I had with zero issues with Doug tuning it. Car was super reliable, made power and held the stock block at 392whp for over 20k miles which is unheard of really.

I'd go to Doug again in a heartbeat with any import. Sharif's reputation is tarnished for a reason. It's your money so spend it where you feel comfortable. You will hear a lot of opinions about both but I also look at performance out of a shop as much as opinions. Driving around a stock car is great...but I like to work with people that make fast cars reliably.

TSM also tunes a lot of Subaru's still. Pretty much daily. They just aren't posted on Facebook that much so you don't hear about it through social outlets.

 

Great information, thanks!
What did you end up doing to your block to make up for the power you were putting out?

 

And everyone is telling me Sharif's reputation is tarnished, but no one wants to tell me why -_-

 

I overbuilt it and went with basically everything but a pinned deck. I think they call that the RR.5. The reality is that a SS1 (basically drop in forged pistons on a fresh block) would have been plenty at my power level.

 

The one everyone knows about is this.

http://jalopnik.com/nissan-gt-r-owner-claims-he-blew-250-000-on-shoddy-tun-504630131

For awhile there was subpar work coming out of that shop and a lot of blown motors/issues. He might have worked at rectifying that but he is still flying pretty below the radar still. There have been a lot of cars there that end up at other shops for one issue or another.

 

Thanks rsutton1223. I also PM'd you because I was being impatient haha

 

haha! It's all good. I'll answer here what I said there as well.

So it is rumored that the 2015 blocks are better than the previous gens with better tolerances on the rings. Theoretically, that should mean that they should hold power better than my car did. There aren't enough people running power yet to tell but everything looks good so far.

400-450 is really fine with forged pistons. Most builds in that range and even a little over 500 usually use STI rods anyways. When you start talking 500+, then I would look at rods and other supporting mods like heads, cam, etc.

It will be interesting to see how the new setup on these cars handles power. On the outside they look exactly the same but the reality is that they are looking to be stronger on the inside.

 

Thanks! That is exactly what I wanted to know.
Like stated in our PM's, if I put in the time/money to get into the block, I might as well change both pistons and rods? Possibly the crank?

 

You don't need rods and crank at that power level. As a matter of fact...99% of the big builds use the stock STI crank. You'll never need more than that on that part.

 

Good man, good information. Thanks again:bowdown:

 

Anytime man. There is a lot of good knowledge out there. I would recommend sitting down with whoever you choose and plan the process out based on what your goals are. That makes things a lot easier for sure.

 

Reading through the link you gave me, I will most likely be going with Doug/Mike.
I hate to judge a business based off one customer experience, but that was an elite customer, which they should have taken every step and precaution to make sure they did quality work. Botched the whole project.

 

Good morning guys!

I just wanted to jump in here in case I could be of some help.

Contrary to what some believe our Subaru program is stronger and more focused than ever. This is the reason that we backed our main Subaru sales man Mike in purchasing his 2015. My dedication to the Subaru customer is just as president today as it ever has been. I still stand behind our work and reputation probably even more than I do in the GT-R or Exotic community. There has always been and will always be a soft spot in my heart for this community as this is where I got my start in the tuner industry.

Doug is the tuner here at TopSpeed and probably has more experience in the Subaru industry than anyone in the united states. He has literally been tuning them since 01. I am very confident that whatever you need done we will make your experience second to none.

If there is anything me or Mike can do please feel free to PM or email us.

Hope to have the opportunity to work with you sir.

 

See you soon sir.

 

Sharif's been flying under the radar to avoid all of the online drama that continues to get instigated by his competitors. I'm not a Forged nut swinger by any means but he's doing the right thing by keeping his business off of the internet. I hear just as many blown motor cases coming from his competitor shop so that argument is invalid, that GTR case was very unfortunate for all anyone knows is it was poor quality staff that worked there. Now he has a whole new crew there and I think he was humbled by the whole experience.

TopSpeed does great builds, no one can deny that. In the end it depends on what you want. A simple, healthy tune or a full build requiring a built motor etc. Each shop has its horror stories, unfortunately Sharif's are public knowledge. But I will reiterate he has been driving an STI for year's now with an FP Green making lots of power on the stock ej257 and zero issues that required an engine rebuild. That turbo setup is going on his '15 as soon as he can catch a break from work at the shop.

Call around, there are actually other tuners in the area as well.

 

All of this is understandable, but I find a lot of security in being able to come on to a public forum, and getting direct information, such as the names given.
Also by going to a "big name shop", I feel assured that if I were to come across a problem, they would take their liabilities more seriously than some guy tuning out of a random shop.
That's just me though, I will probably only put $10-$12k into parts over the next 2 years (not including suspension, tuning, wheels).
I am nowhere near an elite customer, but I have called around, and the way Mike took care of me and my concerns, I feel comfortable with spending my money there.
I came on here for some additional input, which I have gotten an abundance of, but out of every single comment, not one person had actually said something negative about TSM.
Sure maybe they're a little weary to do so because they are after all, sponsors of this site. Hope not!

 

Well there was that one about Doug being too "aggressive" with his tunes which caused knocking...
Probably will do some research into that.

 

Just to give you some information on this.

The computer is there for a reason. Doug tunes the car safe but makes power. When some say people "complained of knock" (trust me I get all these calls personally) It 99% of the time means they saw a -1 on their knock correction after putting gas in at a station they have never used. Or something similar.

If the ECU is pulling -1 / -2 every once in a while in extreme heat, or maybe because of a sub par tank of fuel that is completely normal. The problem is all of the keyboard warriors that have made people think it is not because of the strong desire to throw someone under the bus.

Trust me, if a newer car leaves here after having a tune and beats out a rod bearing (which is signs of knock) then I am going to have to answer for it. I tuned my own cars with Doug's help for years before I owned this place and certainly wouldn't allow my liability or reputation to be at risk for an extra 10HP on a customers car.

Tell Doug what you are looking for, explain your needs to Mike and you WILL get the absolute best for your car.

 

I've had everyone mentioned tune my car at one point or another. All are very skilled in ECU calibration including Shariff but I can't get past some of the shoddy work that has been documented..

I have not tried QED but have talked with Joel at length and when/IF I need another tune QED will be in the running.

I am a long TSM customer as well and Doug may have had a stock block/stock turbo HP/Tq Record way back in the day but it finally gave way to the Piston gods several years later running meth at 26lbs and 255ftlbs of TQ...did I mention this was a 2.0l?

TSM or have a talk with QED is my suggestion.

 

I've used Doug at TSM and Steve with Pullz-on-Tuning...can't go wrong with either of them.

 

Exactly what I needed to hear. :sold:

 

I would not even step foot into Forged after the horror stories I have read and things I have seen leave their shop.

Doug is honestly the only tuner I would trust with a Subaru. If you tell him you dont want an aggressive tune he will give you exactly that.

 

Seems like we're on the same page sir, I am STILL reading about Forged (while trying to keep an unbiased opinion), but finding it to be very difficult.
I love my car like a child, to think of myself put in these situations... hnoes:hnoes:hnoes:

Not that I wouldn't like to make some nice power out of my tune, I just need something more practical, I'm sure TSM/Doug can accommodate.

Nonetheless, thanks for the input :wiggle:

 

I got tuned by Doug at TSM. Been running this Tune for a couple of years and my car is trouble free. Only oil changes and gas fills and the occasional upgrades lol.

 

This dyno was on my 2.0L. It was tuned by both Scott and Doug. Both are very good tuners if not the best. I have had over 500 drag strip passes on this engine. I pulled it at 170,000 miles for a 2.5L just cause I wanted to. That engine went into another car and all that was done was new rings for safe measure even though it was fine. Last I heard that engine had 240,000 miles on it and rocking strong still.



Personally I have been to Forged and Sharif's attitude was sour. Granted who I am probably had a lot to do with it but he will never in my life touch my car. Scott however I will stand behind and Doug I will also stand behind. You can't go wrong with either two as far as a tune. If you want some shop work I 100% push Topspeed.

 

My Dougie fresh tune that was rock solid. 93oct Dom1.5

 

Doug made me 521whp on 93oct with my setup.
Honestly I was just hoping to crest 500. He has also been hilarious to communicate with over the course of my build, and quick to correct me when I get out of line HEH.
He was also a good sport when my lack of an AOS or breather made oil spew all over the windshield on a dyno pull

With that said Mike has been not only a pleasure to work with, he's also a pretty cool guy to know otherwise. Same can be said for Cicio who apparently used to do donuts in wal mart parking lots with one of my old high school friends.

All good people, and all good work up at the o'l topspeed, and that's not even saying anything for "The King" *ducks low*

 

superhawk28, thanks for the input. those are great numbers for a 2.0L, very practical.
rsutton1223, I would be very content if I can reach similar numbers to yours. how was the reliability as a daily driver?
digitizedsoul is that a slick recommendation for an AOS? hahah which one did you end up going with?

 

I daily drove it up to 64k miles. It was great and a perfect fun/street setup. If you want some fudge room, run it at about 22 psi instead of 23.5 like I was and you'll be right around high 390's/low 400's. Awesome setup.

 

heh it was, i remember the road next to TSM that day.
after I was like, damn I need coilovers, and racing seats