It has right around 82,000 miles on it currently. Its tough to say, since it depends on a lot of factors. I have stock EJ205, EJ255, and EJ257 motors running around with 400whp give or take, many of which have been running for 50k+ miles at that power level, and some with over 150k miles on the enegine. E85 is the main factor that holds them together, but there are some other things on the setups that help too.
I've always been curious how much of a difference the insanely high octane makes in regards to avoiding cracked piston ringlands. All other things being the same how much did you leave on the table because it wasn't a built block. i.e. if you had some drop-ins what would you have pushed it to?
Its not just octane. Octane has very little to do with the benefits of E85 actually. A race fuel like C16 will always be able to be tuned to make more power a bit safer than 93 because of octane alone, but E85 will allow you to push farther with a much higher safety margin. The fact that it requires more physical volume in the cylinder (lower stoichiometric value) and that it burns at a lower BTU are just a couple of the factors that help keep the EGT's cool and the engine happy, while being able to run more boost, higher ignition timing, and just all around being able to lean on the car harder while still staying safe. I am going to use a stock motor Subaru for example here, and this is my opinion, however also backed up by facts by many cars I have tuned as well as cars others have tuned. I am a firm believer in the fact that a 400whp stock engine Subaru tuned on E85 is safer and will last longer than a 350whp stock engine Subaru tuned on pump gas. Excessive combustion heat and detonation are what cause most of the damage to an engine. There is a lot more depth to this whole topic, but this at least gives a basic overview. As for the car above, I wouldn't have been able to pick up much on a built motor as it sat. 10-15whp maybe. The stock intake, TMIC, and catted downpipe were becoming a restriction as well as running out of wastegate duty. If we adjusted the wastegate actuator a bit I could have probably ran it up to 24 lbs fairly efficiently and got a bit more aggressive and most likely made somewhere in the 420-430whp range, but the catted downpipe and stock parts would really start restricting it there. The catted downpipe will start to cause excessive heat and you will start to see diminishing returns. With a catless downpipe,header, better IC setup, and an intake on a built engine we typically see in the 450-470whp range on 25-26 lbs if the customer wants that out of it. Add a front mount IC and a good equal length header and you can make a bit more if the setup is paired correctly, as seen on the 504whp Dom 1.5 we did rcently. Sorry if this got a bit long!
Bigger injectors, maybe a better fuel pump depending on what you got. And you must replace all your fuel filters....E85 is very corrosive. It's not good for longevity in the long run.
I was just wondering if it was worth it, considering that the nearest e85 gas station is 9 miles away. What do you mean not good for longevity... the corrosion over time might damage the block? I'm guessing that some people store e85 at home as well due to bad MPG and gas stations being out of reach...
Corrosion to anything it touches, it will get out gaskets and rubber seals quickly.....not to mention the constant variation of blends....they swing quite a bit. Talk to integroid about his experiences with e85....I have seen him state that going to e85 was the biggest mistake he ever made.
Now he can finally monkey with the SM car he's holding back on. No excuses now that it's pretty much a race car.
Basically injectors, a fuel pump, and a tune. Nothing else needed unless you are running it in a car from like the 1980's or older. I would say don't leave it sit for long periods of time (like a year) in your tank without driving the car or draining it, and isn't a bad idea to pull the injectors out every year or so and simply have them cleaned for good measure. Out of the 100+ of cars I've tuned on E85 the usual responses I get are "Why didn't I do this sooner?!", "The car just overall feels smoother", and my favorite "I just pulled a bus length on my buddy with the same mods that you tuned on 93". I've never once had a customer or friend who can perform regular maintenance tell me they wanted to go back to pump gas, unless they were moving somewhere where there was no E85, and then I would get the text message asking how much it would cost to ship some to them since they were having withdrawals lol. And I would say before I moved here, a GOOD 80% or more of the cars I tuned were converted to E85, and that is across all platforms. Subarus, Evos, Hondas, Ecotecs, LS guys, Caliber/Neon SRTs, etc. I have personally ran nothing but E85 in my car since 2008. Not a single tank of pump gas has been ran through it in nearly 8 years. I have friends and customers with the same story.
What is your input on the corrosion topic? Have you experienced or had customers who may had the issue with seals..
Perhaps the issues with corrosion I stated had to do more with the older models and not so much with newer models. I'd be more worried about the swing in the winter blends.
In my personal experience with it I've never run across any major issues. Like I stated make sure to not leave it sitting in the tank for extended periods of time and it is also good to clean the injectors once a year or so just as preventative maint. On older cars it is good to run new fuel lines and to switch out any o rings in the fuel system that may still be factory. On newer cars, even if they aren't "flex fuel" approved I haven't seen any major issues with the fuel system components not handling E85. It is more corrosive and is a "dirtier" fuel. Nothing inside the engine itself is at any danger of any of the potential corrosion. You'd be amazed at how much cleaner it burns and how quickly it will deteriorate the carbon buildup that occurs with normal gasoline. In the past there have definitely been more issues than now days. You'd be amazed at how far the injector and fuel pump technology has come in the past few years. Also the fact that the fuel quality has come to be controlled much better as well. As for the winter blend swing, in the south there is a very minor blend swing. We saw as low as 77% this winter, which on even a non flex fuel car isn't much of a swing. I always tune accordingly to make sure there is a safety cushion for any of the minor blend swings. On a Cobb flex fuel equipped car no matter what blend you have in the tank, from E0 to E100 you can make sure the car is fully compensated and the fueling is always dead on. Technology is awesome lol
Yep, exactly. There is an ethanol content sensor that goes in the feed line and is read through an input to the ECU. Then you tune for the lowest ethanol content you'll be running (usually E10 93) and the highest (E85 for most street cars), and then setup the blending tables how you want them for compensation. Its cool because it can do more than just fueling adjustment. It lets you control your boost, timing, and open loop fueling tables based on what ethanol content it has in it. This just came out for the Subaru's about 2 months ago.
You guys are hilarious I poured e85 in my car last October, and by thanksgiving j had to replace my entire fuel system plus every engine seal. That stuff is no joke.
Lol in reality I daily drove my dom1.5 corn setup for over a year with only injectors and a non ethanol safe pump. No issues
We recently had a customer return for a retune with a new turbo on his 2014 WRX. We built this car a while back and he just ran the stock turbo for a while, but was ready for more! The setup consists of: TSM SS1 short block HTA71 stock location journal bearing turbo 3" catless downpipe Intake Process West TMIC 3 port EBCS Injector Dynamics 1000cc injectors + DW65c pump Stock catback mid section with aftermarket axleback + mufflers 93 Octane, 21.5 psi falling to 20.5: 387whp/387wtq I was pleased considering this turbo costs around $800 brand new, and if the customer decides to have us make an E85 map it should easily reach 450whp. It feels great on the street paired with the WRX gearing. The power comes up pretty quick and holds strong to redline.
We just had a 2015 STi come back in to get tuned on its new Dom 1.5. This was a full bolt ons car that was on stock turbo until recently. It picked up a TON of power from just the turbo swap, and I built in a lot of safety features into the map to keep this 380whp pump gas stock engine car running as reliably as possible Perrin Intake Process West TMIC UEL header to 3" TBE 3 port EBCS Injector Dynamics 1000cc injectors AEM 320 E85 drop in pump 93 octane pump gas 19.5 psi peak boost. This car came into boost so quickly, so I managed the "hit" down low to a flat tq curve to keep the shock out of the engine to not stress the stock engine in the low rpms. I also overlaid the graph with the graph of the same car on the stock turbo. The spool difference is almost nonexistent! Pay close attention to the power curves, as this is often overlooked. So many people look at a dyno graph and only look at the peak numbers, which we all know on subarus especially the tq curve on a stock turbo is pretty peaky and falls off hard by redline. Like I said I managed this car so it only makes 20 more wtq PEAK over the stock turbo, but by 5,000 rpms the stock turbo is falling off so hard that the Dom 1.5 makes 60wtq more and by 6,000 rpms its making 80wtq more. Not to mention by redline the Dom 1.5 is making over 100whp more! This car makes use of the whole rpm range, with much more usable power than the stock turbo! I apologize if this got a bit long winded. I just wanted to share a little bit of what I take into consideration when tuning each vehicle and how I do my best to tailor each calibration specifically for what each car is used for, and what the customer wants out of it inside its capable boundaries
I'm always a fan of the 10cm. Just so much more potential. The spool difference is very minimal. Most people wouldn't notice the spool difference on the street.
We got Justin's (wEaK Squad) STi on the dyno last night! Pushed it a little bit and then picked back up this morning. We are running out of wastegate spring pressure so we left it hitting 48 lbs and falling to 46 lbs by peak power. We will eventually get some more spring pressure in there and report back The goodies: Outfront Motorsports closed deck V4 shortblock Manley platinum series pistons w/large wrist pin Manley Turbo Tuff w/ARP 625 rod bolts 2015 STi crank ARP case bolts Head Games ported heads Kelford D 280 cams Tomei exhaust cam gears GSC valves Ferrea drag spec springs/retainers Intake AVCS only ARP 1/2" head studs JE ProSeal gaskets Forced Performance Super 99 Killer B EL header TSM forward facing uppipe ETS 4" FMIC TSM 3" intercooler piping Process West intake manifold Boomba 75mm throttle body TSM TGV deletes Injector Dynamics 2000cc injectors Fore Innovations fuel pressure regulator TSM fuel rails 3-Walbro 485 high pressure fuel pump setup Radium triple surge tank Driveshaft Shop carbon driveshaft and level 5 axles Andrewtech assembled PPG billet shift forks, selectors, fingers, and carbon synchros TSM catch can TSM electric power steering pump TSM rear diff catch can Aluminati billet trans mount & pitch stop mount MSI billet engine mounts Killer B oil pan, pickup, & windage tray Competition twin disk clutch TSM 4" "shawty" exhaust Cobb Tuning AccessPort V3 Taylor@TSM Tuned E85 from the pump - 48 psi peak tapering to 46 psi: 901whp/693wtq We plan to start hitting the track soon, so we will keep everyone updated! Thanks for the support!
We recently built this 2015 STi and got it in for its final tune after some break in miles! The build consists of: TopSpeed SS1 shortblock Cobb 20G stock location turbo Front mount intercooler Killer B equal length header 3" catless turboback exhaust Injector Dynamics 1000cc injectors Tuned via Cobb AP V3 93 octane - 22.5 psi tapering to 21 psi: 402whp/408wtq This car is about to get Cobb Flex Fuel for an E85 tune as well, so I'll post an update when that happens!
Nice and safe I figured it couldn't have been much more than that with 1000s. Smooth curve and nice numbers! What fuel pump is it running?
Yeah the 1000's on 93 are just getting going at this power level. He is on a factory style regulator as well, but that will change when he goes E85. It has an Aeromotive 340lph pump in it.
Thought I'd post this 2016 STi that we tuned the other day. This was a basic bolt ons car with Cobb's Flex Fuel kit. I first tuned the car on 93 and then swapped the fuel over to E85 to work on that portion of the tune. The ethanol content was around 78% while on the dyno. Parts included: UEL header 3" catless downpipe Stock catback with Nameless muffler deletes K&N Intake 3-port EBCS AEM 320 fuel pump Injector Dynamics 1000cc injectors Cobb Flex Fuel kit Tuned via Cobb AP V3 E85 - 21.5 psi peak falling to 14: 352whp/421wtq 93 oct - 19.5 psi falling to 14: 304whp/347wtq E85 vs 93 graph overaid
Its still pretty easy and convenient to have two separate maps on the accessport too Just not quite as convenient as "flex fuel", but 100% worth it to have the E85 capabilities.
Ya... The E85 pump down the street from you guys is the closest one to me and I'm 20+ minutes north. So it's not that big of a deal, it would just be nice to have access to.
Fill up a few spare fuel cans to keep at home to eliminate the need to get to the pump as often. Keep that stock engine happy, and give it what it wants!