As stated in title. I am looking for a new turbo. NOTHING CRAZY. My goals for now are around the 250-275 whp area, with VERY GOOD RELIABILITY. In other words i don't want anything that is just too big for the 2.0L. I have ~85,000 miles and I am EVENTUALLY going with a 2.5L, but for now its just out of my price range. Therefore it would also make sense to be a decent small-medium sized turbo for the 2.5L. I will never want more than 350whp out of my car. So my question to you gurus is, what turbo will provide a reliable 250-275whp for the next year or so on my 2.0L and a reliable torque monster on my 2.5L in the coming years?? I have looked at 16G's, Monster TD04's, VF39's, and other similar turbos. thanks in advance. -Jake
yeah, i have really been looking at those cuz of $$ situation. Just wanted some more input. I'd like to spend $500 or less (willing to buy used).
It's a great treatment for a 2.0. Reliable and smooth... It's not much bigger than stock. Don't forget the pinks, walbro, and tune to go with that. You should also look into a vf34, but the difference is minor. wait, you want to put this on a 2.5 down the road? That's a stock STi turbo. If that's the case, I'd say to think about waiting for the 2.5 before you buy something.
I've heard of 300whp on a vf39 and 2 litre. Yeah well my td04 is going out of commission and I have been looking hard at the monster treatment which is right up my alley price wise. And I'm guessing would be a good addition till I get the 2.5 together. And then would be a good torque combe till I got more money for a bigger setup. At least that was my line of thinking. Any thoughts?
I have the VF39, pump, pinks, and STI TM AND... At the Top Speed Dyno day I put down 282/279! I have since added meth and have no clue...I was at the Batlground dyno day but had pressure leaks and faulty EBCS and still put down 279/292 or something like that, I tossed the plot cause I was disgusted! So the answer is yes!
As far as I know, Yes but just at it. I have limited experience with it. 300, no. Atleast not at SOG from SS. Maybe from Doug at Topspeed. Numbers vary per dyno and with agressive tuning. I also forgot about a bigger intercooler. You'll probably need that too.
I believe that would also require meth though. I think you are looking in the 275 range with a 2.0 and VF39. Why not just try to pick up a used TD04 for like $50 right now. Figure a good deal on the VF39 + Pinks is going to be about $600 or more. If money is an issue, as you make it seem, a stock TD04 would be the best option right now.
^^I would have to agree with all that was said. But on the power note, Doug did give me a plot @ 308/292 while tuning the week before they hosted the dyno day but I am sure it was not *SAFE* and backed it off a bit. oh and that was before meth.
I found a 39 for $400 (it was like new...), pinks for $275, STi TMIC for $275, and a walbro for $80. The tune was $280? Tell you what, I'll sell my kit if you're interested. I'll go back to stock because I think BrianGT talked me into an STi...
You can get vf23's for like $300 which is a much better option in my opinion. Higher topend and good ol oem reliability.
i have an ebay top mount all i would need are bigger injectors and a pump. like i said before ~$500 is my price range tho. and i currently have a spare TD04 sitting around, but since my stocker is probly no good i would have to send the other one off to deadbolt as the core.
Isn't the VF39 exhaust housing prone to cracking? Seems like that would kill the reliability factor..
The turbo is in my back seat. Call me so we can meet. Traffic this week has been horrible! Maybe look into modding you stock injectors, Walbro FP, and a used 16g ($~500 on Nasty). Heck, I will look for a vendor and see if we can get a small deal if we both buy a turbo/turbo package of some sort.
Yes, but it doesn't seem to effect performance or reliability. 99% of VF39s have the crack, and nobody ever notices any problems. They don't even know its there until they pull the turbo off and look. I would almost say that all VF39s have the crack, and if you have one that you don't think has the crack, you don't know what you are looking for.
If you are planning on going with the 2.5 short block, and you don't plan on making more than 350whp when you have the new motor, I would recommend going with a 20g right now. EJRex has one and is pretty happy with it. It will certainly be laggier than the stocker but if you don't tune it too aggressively, it should be reliable. That way, you won't have to switch turbos again with the bigger motor.
but is a 20g really neccessary? jason (jason on here, ha) is running an untuned 18g and will be capable of over 350whp with that on his 2.5L. A 16g seems more practical. then I could go externally gated, ported, and tuned on the 2.5L and would probly be happy.
Veck had a VF24 for sale for $200. Should spool as fast as stock but make a lot more torque at lower revs. I'm happy with my VF29 which is just a VF24 with a titanium compressor.
Whats practical varies from person to person. Some people (autocrossers in particular) would say that anything bigger than the vf39 is too big for an STi. Others will say that anything smaller than a GT35R is too small. Your turbo has to fit your driving style. In my opinion, a 20G is the perfect turbo for the EJ25 if you plan to stick with pump gas. I have seen 20G equipped STi's make between 350-370whp on pump gas with good tunes.
We are in the same boat, I have a 2.0 with around 82k (but my TD04 is fine) and I am trying to choose a turbo. No one has really addressed your question about reliablity, and I have the same fears. Bigger turbos are going to allow to to get more air inside of your engine, which also means more pressure...if your (older/worn out) internals can't keep up then something is going to fail. Head Gasket? Cylinder Walls? Where do our engines fail? As far as your power goals with your 2.0 are concearned. I would say rather than shooting for a target HP, look at your preferred driving style and decide where you want your power to be. I myself love mountain driving, and I have been very happy with the TD04, but I want more at little more omph. Whenever I have asked the question of "which turbo" I get a variety of different answers...Some people say 16g, some people say VF22, and some people say VF39, and all of them give me the same reasons for each turbo. Most people say skip the 16g and go bigger, but I really don't want the lag associated with the bigger turbos, especially because I am not really to concearned about top end power. The more I research, the more it looks like the 16g or EVO III 16g is in fact exactly what I am looking for, but then again, the VF34 looks good too, I really can't decide. I have been trying to learn how to read compressor maps, so I can make a more educated choice about what turbo to go with, here is where I started. How to read compressor maps: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258035 Compressor maps of some different turbos: http://www.stealth316.com/2-3s-compflowmaps.htm More Compressor maps: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1265801
yeah thanks, that is exactly where my thoughts have been leading me. mainly because like you I am just a daily driver, I don't street race, drag race, autocross or any other type of competition. I do however enjoy the occasional mountain run. 16G just seems to be right up my alley. I just want a little more torque for now until the 2.5 comes, with which I will be satisfied at around 350whp.
I addressed reliability issues with my previous posts. The 39 is the smallest upsized turbo for a 2.0 and a great solution. It's a safe choice (and a smart choice if you're on an '02 tranny). The bad side is it's a stock 2.5 turbo so it won't help the cause if you get a 2.5, and they don't put down huge numbers compared to others. I'll take the reliability and quick spool every day of the week. It feels like a td04 that doesn't run out of breath at 5K. It's not a monster, but it is reliable. I think it's the turbo that should have come on the car from Subaru... Look people, 275 AWHP is strong. Most cars out there have engines twice the size and less power to two wheels. Anything over 100WHP per 1.0 liters is crazy.
You don't have to tune a bigger turbo to the max. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I expect bigger turbos to be more reliable at the same boost level since the air they pump is cooler.
Yeah, I thought about that...I don't know about providing more reliablity, but this is the question that I had in my head that kept me from suggesting that...if you get a turbo that might be bigger than you need and you tune it to deliver less boost, aren't you working outside of the turbo's range of efficency? Wouldn't it be better to get a turbo that was designed to be the most efficienct in the range that you need/want your power in?
Your car is only going to be as strong as the weakest part. So if a big turbo needs to run your injectors 100%, there's no room for error. I wouldn't consider a stock 2.0 block running 80% of turbo, 100% of injectors, 90% of fuel pump, and with high intake temps a good idea. Good job if you're running 340WHP on a big turbo running at 90%, big ass injectors at 90%, and huge fuel pump at 90%. But if that's on a high mile stock 2.0 block you're in trouble. So it seems to me we need to take the attention off the turbo size and place it on the high mile 2.0.
Yeah. But since he plans to upgrade to a 2.5 short block with the end goal of about 350whp, I thought a 20g should suffice in the long run.