Cylinder 4 Misfire Detected

Discussion in 'Modifications & DIY how-to' started by integroid, May 15, 2009.

  1. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    I have been getting a P0304 Cylinder 4 Misfire for the last few weeks. It was first taking a few weeks before it would come back, then a few days, now a few hours after I clear the code. I have changed out spark plugs and swapped the coil packs around and still getting this error. I am a little stumped....Anyone have any suggestions on what I could look at next?
     
  2. blindfold

    blindfold Active Member

    clean maf, do a compression, if that does not fix the problem and compression checks out to be good, then it could be your injectors. what injectors are you running currently?
     
  3. FACE

    FACE Active Member

    Bad Gas? I guess it would not have been so progressive though...
     
  4. nicad

    nicad Yes I am a troll

    what did the plugs look like?
     
  5. Jake

    Jake Active Member

    Check compression
     
  6. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    I am running PE 850cc

    The plugs that came out looked all fine and they all looked the same as far as the color.

    I have been through multiple tanks of gas so I dont think it is the gas.

    I might swap out injectors next week to see if that changes the cylinder of the misfire.
     
  7. nicad

    nicad Yes I am a troll

    is the car stumbling or hesitating at all? when does the misfire code come, idle, WOT, etc?
     
  8. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    Car does stumble a little and sometimes when it is cold and I dont let it warm up, it stumbles really badly for a few seconds. The misfire code almost always comes on during light throttle or when I am at a light. The car seems to be running perfect when it comes on.
     
  9. pEd

    pEd This ain't no Piccadilly!

    I think Ming **blindfold** was having this exact issue. It ended up being his injectors (PE850's too).

    Try swapping them around and see what happens.
     
  10. nicad

    nicad Yes I am a troll

    consensus on nasioc build motor forum is that PE makes junk injectors

    a lot of people on there are having good success with bosch
     
  11. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    Bosch has a sidefeed injector that will work in our Subys?
     
  12. nicad

    nicad Yes I am a troll

    Last edited: May 15, 2009
  13. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    Thanks for the info Nicad...too bad they are top feeds...I have no desire to switch over to Top Feeds until the new motor gets in.
     
  14. siegelracing

    siegelracing Registered Vendor<br><b><font color="#666666">bion

    Lose the PE850's. Put in Deatscwerks 850's. Minimal tuning, then no more issues ;)

    Siegel
     
  15. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    ^^^I concur. Deatchwerkz are awesome.
     
  16. Slowsoul

    Slowsoul Member

    The MAF sensor will effect ALL cylinders, You need to look at things that are specific to that cylinder. As many have already mentioned, it is probably an issue with that injector. If you feel like troubleshooting it, first check for injector pulse (using a noid light), this will tell you wether or not it is getting a good signal from the controller. If the pulse signal is good, then move on to checking continuity and resistance across the leads on the injector. If both check out, then it is a spray issue...like it is clogged up and the spray pattern is bad.

    However, seeing as how the frequency of the problem has been getting shorter and shorter between failures...I would lean more towards an electrical issue.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2009
  17. Kokopelli

    Kokopelli Active Member

    I hate to say it but if it was any other cylinder than 4 or even several cylinders that were experiencing a misfire I would venture that it was the injectors, but since its always #4 I fear the worst. I would certainly do a compression check. If you need a gauge I have one you can use or you can swing by next week and I'll help you run the test.
     
  18. slowwrx

    slowwrx Supporting Member

    If you are going to switch later then you might as well switch now the Bosch 1000cc injectors are really nice.
     
  19. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    Ok, so I have swaped injectors around. The injector on #4 was really dirty on top and around the injector. Sprayed it with carb cleaner and put it into #1. Reset ecu and I should know sometime today if the CEL comes back on and if it moved with the injector. If it is the injector, I think I might want to go with Top feeds. DOes anyone know exactly what all I would need to convert to Top Feeds? Would it just be the rails, TGVs, and injectors?
     
  20. Sparta

    Sparta Active Member

    Should just need tgv's, injectors, and the wire connectors.
     
  21. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    Well you would need fuel rails for sure since they feed from the top of the injector and not the side of the injoector.
     
  22. slowwrx

    slowwrx Supporting Member

    Injectors
    Rails
    TGVs
    slight modification to intake manifold if you use wrx tgvs.
     
  23. pEd

    pEd This ain't no Piccadilly!

    There's something else you've got to do with the fuel pressure regulators I believe.
     
  24. slowwrx

    slowwrx Supporting Member

    The pressure port for the regulator is in a different place you just have to run a vacuum line.
     
  25. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    Why do you want to do all of that extra work? Or are you getting fueling out of the way while you are at it for the bigger billet turbo you are talking about?
     
  26. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    Well if it is indeed an injector issue, I would rather just switch over to topfeed and be done with it. I do not want to buy another set of sidefeed injectors.
     
  27. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    Gotcha.
     
  28. kingwrex

    kingwrex Supporting Member

    yep, sounds like injectors. those PE's have a high failure rate from what i hear
     
  29. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    So far no misfire. It has been 3 days and it usually misfires after the 2nd day after an ecu reset. If I get another misfire, I will go ahead and move to a topfeed setup with the 1000CC Bosch injectors.
     
  30. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    Maybe it was that dirty injector after all! Woot for not having to spend more money!

    Btw I usually throw in a bottle of injector cleaner every 5 gas tanks or so. I noticed in the past the car wouldn't run as smooth after 10 gas tanks or so and doing the cleaner solved that issue! I guess my modded stockers are easy to get dirty thanks to gas stations not being that clean to begin with.
     
  31. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    Humm...what kind of injector cleaner do you use?
     
  32. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    I usually use the black bottle STP super concentrated. You can get it at Walmart or any parts store.
     
  33. goixiz

    goixiz Active Member

    I personally use Gumout regane or Amsoil PI (nothing else) as an injector cleaner
    Once a year i do an injector clean and intake manifold clean
     
  34. Mike@TTR

    Mike@TTR Active Member

    E85...keeps the fuel system sparkling clean!
     
  35. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    But not nearly as stable.....you said yourself you have to watch it all the time.
     
  36. blindfold

    blindfold Active Member

    fingers crossed for ya, hopefully it does not come back
     
  37. Mike@TTR

    Mike@TTR Active Member

    Oh it is every BIT as stable. You just have to make sure you know when they are switching blends and have the appropriate map ready. IE winter tune, summer, spring. The nice part is it is so resistant to detonation that even if you run a bit lean, your chances of messing something up are WAY down compared to gasoline.

    Same thing would apply to meth injection or water injection...you better be watching to make sure that thing does not fail or you could fubar a motor quick!! Pump failure, nozzle blockage, leak...all kinds of possibilities. At least E85 still has the detonation resistance no matter if it is summer, winter or spring fuel!
     
  38. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    Meh 4 tunes? Expensive. And on my meth failing I'm covered. I have fail safe. My WG pressure is below where I even start spraying meth full blast. Priming at 12 full blast at 17. Fail safe monitors pressure and flow. If it exceeds 135 psi or falls under 90 psi it triggers. If it doesn't detect 100 psi in milliseconds it triggers.

    As with everything I try to do it right.

    But I'm toying with e85. 3 more stations have it here since Jan 2009 so maybe next year I'll try it out.
     
  39. slowwrx

    slowwrx Supporting Member

    It depends how close to the edge you have it tuned. A motor tuned on the edge with E85 is just as likely to detonate as 93 octane. Also as far as Methanol being stable I'm not sure but I would imagine that it absorbs water at about the same rate as Methanol and if thats the case its not really what I would call a stable fuel.
     
  40. Mike@TTR

    Mike@TTR Active Member

    Oh, it is pretty darn stable. It does absorb water, but then again so does the 93 you get at the pump. I have not seen any real variance from day to day, tank to tank, even letting it sit for a week. The only changes I see are when they switch blends. This is after around 15k miles on the stuff now! And the fact is even if it is tuned pretty close, it is HARD to make a motor knock on E85. You can actually advance past MBT without knocking. And again...no matter which blend out are on it is still around 100 octance and has some serious knock resistance from the fuel itself and the cooling abilities of alcohol!

    As for the various tunes, it is just minor adjustments...not a big deal. It's not like you are changing everything unless you are tuned to the ragged edge. I try to keep things safe and reasonable.

    But this is about the misfire, not a E85 debate ;) I was merely pointing out the cleaning abilities of alcohol on the engine!
     
  41. slowwrx

    slowwrx Supporting Member

    You can get a good look at a steak by shoving your head up a bulls ass....

    I wouldn't say there is anything hard about making a car knock despite what fuel is in it.
     
  42. Mike@TTR

    Mike@TTR Active Member

    It is much easier on straight pump gasoline :)
     
  43. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    Integroid still CEL free?
     
  44. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    Still CEL free....Keeping my fingers crossed:)
     
  45. slowwrx

    slowwrx Supporting Member

    Sweet
     
  46. Mike@TTR

    Mike@TTR Active Member

    Glad to hear it!
     
  47. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    CEL came back on Friday....Good news is that it is misfiring with the same injector so now it is being dtected in Cylinder 1.

    Now that I know it is an oinjector problem, should I just buy some DW 850 Sidefeeds and get Doug to touch up the tune or go with the TOpfeed setup that would cost me an ass load of money? Will the 150CC really benefit me in the future going to 1000CC Top Feeds? I dont even know if my Walbro will keep up witht hem and dont really want to try and get a bigger pump in my car.
     
  48. UpSideDownDesi

    UpSideDownDesi Active Member

    my 255 seems to be keeping up alright so far with 930's in. I think 1100+ and turning up your Fuel pressure wil require new pump set up, so 1k should be okay for 93 and race. My 2cents, i am sure Mike or Matt will chime in.
     
  49. Mike@TTR

    Mike@TTR Active Member

    Go topfeed..those bosch injectors keep getting good reviews! Or just replace the one injector and call it a day.
     
  50. integroid

    integroid Supporting Member

    I can't replace just one injector. I would have to buy at least two injectors and I do not want to buy more PE stuff.

    So I have a line on a set of used DW850 for around $350....Another $80 for cleaning and 1/2 hour tuning brings the total to about $550 or so.....

    The top feed setup would cost $450 for the injectors, $150 for TGV, $350 for fuel rails, At least 2 hours for tuning, plus labor to install everything. That is looking closer to $1500 after all said and done.

    Do you guys REALLY think it is worth the extra $1k for a top feed setup? I would love to hear from Doug and Matt on this.
     

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