Ecutek vs Cobb

Ok so what's the best, I need to uncork this CPU. This is probably an age old topic but you've got a newbie in the house!

 

Easy answer: use whatever your tuner of choice uses.

More detail...

With the AccessPort you get some base maps (look on Cobb's site) out of the box. You can usually find a used AccessPort around $500; that'll get you started and you can drive for quite a while on the base maps. Many stick with 'stage 2' which is a map for a car with basic exhaust mods. I run stage 2.5 which is vf34 turbo + STi injectors. They also have a map for the VF30 turbo.

Cons are that once you move outside the mods these maps are made for, you have to either tune it yourself (using their StreetTuner package) or get a local tuner to ProTune it. I think TopSpeed charges $300 for a ProTune, so add that to the $500-ish purchase price and you're around $800, which is close to Ecutek pricing.

Personally, and others will disagree here, I think Cobb has the advantage. You can get started for fairly cheap ($500), you can get a custom tune for around the same price as an ecutek license+tune, you can tune it yourself, you can trade maps with others who tune it... there is a lot of flexibility in their product.

Also, with the AccessPort you can switch between up to TEN different maps. You can have an economy map, a race gas map, a daily driver map etc etc.

I know there are plenty of ecutek fans here; they'll no doubt offer their views and opinions.

 

That's great info. Especially for the budget minded like myself. I am pretty good with computers probably slightly better than with wrenching. I guess my question would be with Ecutek do you get a box that comes with base tunes or do they just flash the CPU. I would actually prefer a box that I can load a map on and have the option of getting a pro-tune rather than having to get a tune for every mod. Flexibility and value sound really good with this product

 

ECUtek is a straight up flash. You can get their data monitor which I believe allows you to change some parameters; not sure which ones. That's a pretty expensive piece though. $600-800 perhaps?

In all fairness, if you want to user tune your AccessPort rig, you really ought to invest in a wideband o2 sensor ($150-200 I think) setup to go with the $400 Street Tuner software. That's only if you want to do your own tuning though... for most, a good ProTune is the ticket and you can get both a pump and a race gas map if that's what you want.

 

ecutek ftw!!!

 

Since the guy is looking for information, perhaps you could share *why* you think ECUtek is a better option.

 

i'm with ya. everyone says EM is the way to go. why WOULD i go with ECUtek? sounds like a PIA unless your totally into turning after every mod. is that the case? what am i over looking with ECUtek?
is it a matter of "mod commitment"?
i've been wondering myself.

 

Yea a flash after each mod sounds $.Plus I don't have the cash to be upping turbo units or getting an STI block. I am strapped for a couple of years so If I can get my hands on a few differen't maps with some basic mods I am a happy man. So far Cobb sounds like the way to go and I must second the previous qoute "am I missing something"?

 

If I buy new WRX/STi, I will go with Cobb Accessport or Protune more exactly due to its flexibility of having different maps. Moose pretty much covered the big stuffs between two, but i can add some stuffs. COBB continously evolved and upgraded, but on the other hand ecutek.... almost nada. Maybe little stuffs here and there, but ecutek does NOT have any map switching nor user tuning option. also any EM you get, you should retune whenever you add new mods. You don't have to, but retune will maximize the gain from the new mods.

The initial ecutek licensing fee (w/ 2hr tuning) is $850 for Subaru at ALL Atlanta Ecutek dealers. Guess how much Atlanta EVO owners pay for ecutek... $650 for license & initial custom tuning. Hmm.....

BTW, I currently have ECUTEK with just basic bolt-ons and make 250wtq & 231whp. My AP stage 2 made 227wtq & 223whp. Different dynos and different days... but numbers are just numbers...

 

02-03 does support two maps, but the only difference is boost map. Timing, fuel trim, turbo dynamics, and etc cannot be changed.

 

I have ecutek and love it. After my ecutek tune my car did every thing from idel smoother, better gas millage, huge power gains etc. With the legacy the open loop closed loop with the stock em is IMO damaging to the car. I have never used any other em but theirs alot of people that have have and most will tell you its the best .

If you dont have enough money for an UP just gut your stock one. I personaly would not get EM until the pre turbo cat has been removed. If you dont you will have run a lower boost level for safety reasons.

in your car you will have map swithing. You will have a low boost (14-15psi)map and a high boost map(18-19psi). All you have to do to switch it over is at full throttle push the defrost botton.

I have riden in 50+ tuned subys, ecutek is the way to go.

 

Yeah, they dropped the ball on this one bigtime. For a while they were talking about a May 05 release date (probably a kneejerk reaction to Cobb dropping StreetTuner and ProTuner on the market) and then it just sort of fizzled. If they come up with user tuning software, they'll definitely be a lot more competitive feature wise.

Not everybody does. But, before I went to the VF34 setup I did use the economy map for roadtrips. The anti-theft map is pretty nice too. For those who are into racing, be it competitive or not, a high boost / race gas / more timing map would definitely be a winner. Oh, and a valet map is awesome too (limit boost/revs) should you ever need it.

I personally think the only advantage ECUtek has right now is more market penetration. There are probably ten ECUtek tuners for each ProTuner at the moment. However, that is changing.

So, from my viewpoint...

Cobb pros: Cheaper to get started with base maps, map switching, user tuning available.

ECUtek pros: More tuners around who know/use it.

 

I am currently running ecutek as well, but to tell you the truth, I'm starting to find the protune very interesting. If ecutek doesn't get their stuff together, i may be swapping em. not to say that ecutek doesn't get the job done but, mutli maps would be very nice when i decide to do meth.

 

I also have EcuTek and could not be happier. I unfortunately have an 05 so I can not do Map Switching (only downside thus far). Also, with all the new enhancements EcuTek has released there is more than can be done with EcuTek, I think. For example, with EcuTek a tuner can now control things like the fan controllers and stuff like that. Not sure if Accessport can do that. Also rumor has it that EcuTek is supposed to be releasing something soon that will allow some User Tuning Capability. Also, EcuTek has a possible Launch Controller, not sure how it works, but unfortunately that is not available in the US yet, because of the Glass Tranny issues with 02-03 WRXs. EcuTek does not want North American Customers destroying their trannys because of Launch Control, but hopefully that will be available soon here.

Since you are tied buy a budget and will not have much money for upgrading things like Turbo and Injectors and the real expensive stuff, EcuTek would be fine for you. You don't have to get retuned after every mod, and you can also have some tuning done in advance for parts you are expecting to get.

Either EcuTek or AP are both great options, it is all a matter of preference. I love EcuTek and would never change from it. Others love AP and feel the same. Spend some time reading on Cobbtuning.com and Ecutek.com and see which fits your needs better. Regardless of what you choose, any EM will completely change the characterists of your car, and you honestly can't go wrong with either pick.

I would have to say that the choice between EcuTek and AP is equivelent to the question of STI or EVO.

Oh yeah, to do map switching with EcuTek on the 02-03, all you have to do is floor the gas and hit the rear window defroster. Maps switch on the fly and you are done.

 

i'm totally stock now. this will change in time (just hit 10,000 yesterday) but EM on the stock car for now sound like a huge improvment to orig. settings. time, money and knowledge are holding me back.
what do you think about saving and getting EM as one of the first mods? i am going to do the few freebies, snorkus delete, gut the UP, freer flowing air filter. i do have a set of auto-x wheels, stockers with Falcon tires. i realize the tire are the weakest link.
more more, give me more input. i'm just going to ask everybody at the install the same damn questions.

 

that is pretty fly.

 

For an '05, I would argue that you should do engine management before ANYTHING else. (Assuming it's not an STi.)

If you're interested in the detailed reasons why, ask and I'll share... don't have time to type it up right now but I'll do it later.

If it were me, I'd get an AccessPort since that'll support both a bone stock car and a car with exhaust mods (UP/DP/catback stuff). It'll cost you $500-ish for the EM and you won't need to get re-tuned when you do the exhaust mods either. It's really a no-brainer if you ask me, vs paying $850 for ECUtek now and paying more later to get it re-tuned when you add dp/catback yada..

 

it is an 05 WRX not STi, correct.
and this is pretty much the conclusion i've come to over the past few months of reading. i'm not going for 500+WHP, just want to get the lag under control. and TopSpeed can tune it later on. also, i want to get a year of auto-xing under my belt before i start any heavy modding. so, with the Cobb, can i go back to the factory default at the track? i would assume.
as far as one setting for "light driving" and then "wide ass open driving"; it is possible? ignorance is the root of this question.

 

With Cobb you can flash a stock realtime map, yes. For autox they have some 'STX map' but since I don't know autox rules at all I can't comment on what all is involved there. It takes 5-10 seconds to change maps.

Not sure about your other question.. do you mean one map for commuting and one for spirited driving? Yes, that is possible. You could use an economy map for daily driving and switch to a normal stage 2 for spirited driving

 

No. EcuTek, it is one map for all kinds of driving. that is achievable? i would think that to be extremely difficult to do.

 

Well, if parameters like what gas you're running and mods and whatnot remain the same, there's no significant reason to have more than one map. The advantage of multiple maps is if you want to run race gas or meth or whatnot...

 

Moose, does the STX Map for AP change Boost levels at all. If so then you technically can not run is STX class, I think that any changes to Boost Pressure will automatically bump you to SM. Now that really doesn't matter unless you are going for National Level Auto X. At the Local level, they don't check the car thoroughly so the chances of anyone knowing that you have Reflashed the ECU are slim.

 

You can go to Cobb's site and find everything you want.

---
Additional Notes:
For use with a stock turbo, stock injectors, stock intake and a TURBOBACK
exhaust system. Additional modifications such as uppipe and underdrive pulley
are still within the acceptable parameters of this mapping. MUST USE FACTORY
INTAKE. NO AFTERMARKET INTAKES ARE CERTIFIED COMPATIBLE WITH THIS MAPPING.
Best if used with 93 and 94 octane.
Stock target boost pressure and stock turbo wastegate duty cycle maps are used
per SCCA Solo2/ProSolo STX rules. NO BOOST MAPPING ADJUSTMENTS ARE MADE.
Target A/F Ratios are mid 12's under load before the onset of boost. Under full
load by 3500 RPM the A/F Ratio will drop to mid 11:1 and gradually run richer as
RPM's increase ending at mid to high 10:1 A/F at redline.
The "Speed Limiter", which in reality just turns off boost control above 130mph,
is removed.

 

I('d) prefer ECUtek.

For one, any user error with the Cobb AP could seriously screw your car up. There have been problems with people messing up and what not connecting the AP, for example, once the battery appearantly was too "low" on juice so the AP just stopped in the middle or something and now he needs a new ECU.
I know you should look in the User manual for the AP, but heaven forbid you miss one thing. And with the User manual, Cobb can basically say "Hey, that's your fault."
Then again, I'd deadly afraid of myself messing up with a 24k car, in all respects, not just EM.

Also, the AP is -just- a -box-. It has wires, and a little text display, and you plug it in. Make sure you know what you're doing though. Just doesn't fit right with me. I know it works (quite well) and there have been like zero problems considering the enormous amounts of users, but still. Again, just my train of thought.

 

I had TurboXS EM when i bought the car, but very shortly there after switched to Ecutek. I'm very happy with it and the EM isn't fighting with the car's ECU. Plus Scott is a damn fine tuner!

I'm with KofS of this one. I'd rather pay an experienced tuner do it right, than mess it up myself, just to be on the safe side. Also i don't plan on adding any more mods to my car unless i do the 2.5 swap.

 

That's why I was going with the ecutek because I don't need issues like that! Im kind of a fix it once fix it right so you don't have to mess with it anymore type person.

 

i'll tell you guys one thing, there is no way in hell i'm tuning it myself.

 

come on, why not? what could possible go wrong?

 

...nothing could possiblai go wrong.

 

you could switch between the economy, highway, and whatever map you want. and initially i thought i would too, but i have never switched off of the stage 2 map. not for trips to florida, tunica, tennessee, wherever. i'd rather have the full power when i want/need it.

can't wait for my protune!!!

 

Ire Cobb and Protune Synonymous? If you get a Cobb and are butt-ass ignorant with tuning, are you safe to stay within the confines of the supplied MAP's to keep from frying your ECU? It sounds like you could get in trouble if you statr tuning yourself. Do the MAPS have a tendency to conflict with the stock ECU ex. Check Engine Lights?

 

I'll break this down real quick.. from Cobb, you have:

* AccessPort. Has maps for stock, exhaust mods, certain turbo upgrades (VF30/34). No user tuning, nothing to worry about, plug it in, push a button and load a map and you're done. Very safe/conservative maps as long as you stay within the recommended mod limitations. It will take care of check engine lights related to the mods like rear o2 sensor efficiency and whatnot. Figure $500 or so for a used one, $600 for a new. It'll make your car run better, faster, and I can't see it affecting reliability adversely at all on the stage 1/2 levels.

* ProTuner. This lets a tuner do pretty much exactly what they'd do with ECUtek. The difference is that they can create several maps and store on your AccessPort; you can then switch between them. Or you can have them create one map for your car/mods, load it to your car, and be done with it. It requires that you already have the AccessPort. Cost dependent on tuner, I think TopSpeed is like $250 to create a single map for your car.

* StreetTuner. Again, requires that you have an AccessPort. This is like Diet ProTuner; it gives you slightly more limited/simplified access to the maps and parameters. This is if you want to tune the car yourself. I think it's $400, but you will really need a wideband o2 sensor setup ($200?) and some other gauges/sensors to really take advantage of it safely.

So, essentially all options require the AccessPort. Then you can either stick with the off-the-shelf maps Cobb supplies, make your own maps with StreetTuner, or go have a tuner build one for you.

Hope this helps.

 

You can get something besides the Accessport called the "protuner" that allows you to tune it yourself, I believe.
This is different from "professionaly tuned" which describes any sort of professional tuning the car for you, be it Cobb, ECUtek, Utec, whatever.
The name of the Cobb software can make it confusing.

Yes, in fact, you are supposed to stay with the biult in parameters with the Cobb AP. You can go a little off the maps (for example, get an Uppipe with stage I), because the maps have a little leniency biult in.

With just the AP, you can't tune it yourself. Also, you wouldn't want to unless you are really good. Most Suby owners (even modded) do not fit in this catagory. Professional tunes are always for the best, especially around Atlanta with such good tuners.

Cobb, as well as ECUtek, actually reprogram the ECU, so they both have the ability to clear CEL's. And, since the ECU is reprogrammed, there is no "conflict" like it might be possible with "piggy back" units that simply modify the ECU's signals.

 

what about going back to the stock map/program with the Cobb? i don't see it in the PDF manual i downloaded. i could very well have over looked it.

 

I think when you unmarry the AP it returns to Stock.

 

Close, but not quite right. ProTuner is used by tuning shops, StreetTuner is what you use for your own tuning. See my post above.

 

There's a stock map you can switch to; it's available on Cobb's web site. You *can* unmarry and set your car back to 100% stock, but there's really no point in this unless you're planning to sell the car and/or the AccessPort. Switching to their stock map (which is the same process as switching to any other map they offer) will make the car run like stock.

 

cool cool. just want to be fair at the auto-x's ya know.
but, on the other hand, i want to keep up with the big boys on the mnt. runs!!!

 

i'll be getting an AP once my tax return comes in for my car's first mod to run stg. 1 on. I've heard some compelling arguments for fixing the OL/CL delay issues and topspeed thinks it's a good idea. Much cheaper than ecutek too, will see how it works out dyno day.

 

Another thing to consider is the ease of resale:

You can't exactly "sell" an Ecutek, but you can definitely turn around a used AccessPort if you want to.

Ultimately, the difference was summed up best in one of the early posts, find the tuner first, go with the tuning second.

 

there are plenty of people that swap + cash with ecutekd ECUs

 

Just to add a little bit more to the debate. I did a little research and most of the cars on the topspeed "power club" pages use EcuTek for their engine management. the cars that dont use an EcuTek, use a UTEC.

So if TopSpeed is the only local tuner that can do a protune, it sure seems as if they are not doing many of them.

Also to be fair, a few of the cars, while making a lot of power, didn't have their management listed in their mod list.

I am currently stock, so I have no bias.

 

Wouldn't extreme weather changes also need to be addressed? Maybe a summer heat tune, and a winter cold tune?

 

One thing to keep in mind is to never return to the stock ECU if you have any mods other than uppipe and exhaust. If you are running upgraded injectors and turbo, returning to the stock ECU would either kill your car, or it would run like a dog... a 3 legged, blind dog with the mange. hnoes:

 

i believe both cobb and (i know) ECUTECH allow for you ECU to adjust fr changes in climate just as it would from the factory

 

Well, TopSpeed has only been doing ProTunes for what, a month?

I'm sure Doug can chime in, but every tuner so far that's used ProTune has said that there's no real difference in capabilities compared to Ecutek.

So if you're concerned about Ecutek somehow making more power, I would say don't worry; they adjust the same ECU and same maps.

Also, as for cold weather... no, Cobb setup is not like UTEC. It modifies the ECU maps in the stock ECU, and will respond to climate changes just like a stock or Ecutek'd car.

It seems like a lot of people have some irrational fear of Cobb's products (not singling you out here) that stems from lack of knowledge about them.

 

Yeah Alex is right you should always go back to your tuner and have everything tested and re-tuned every 3-6 months. If you dont you will shorten the life span of your ride.

 

I didn't know that they just started using cobb within a month. That would easily explain why they dont have any "power club" members with a cobb tune. Also, they might not be pushing the product just yet, as its new to them.

But keeping with someone's advice, pick the tuner, then pick your EM.

Sweet! I'm coming from a UTEC position for the most part. Its gone now though, so I am back to stock. Knowing that the ECU will make changes for different weather conditions is pretty comforting, for both Cobb and EcuTek.

Nah, no fear. Honestly I have a lack of knowledge about both. the only thing I see is that some peoples cars make XXX power with an EcuTek, and others make YYY power from a Cobb. Tuner ability is what I am fearful of.