boost pressure ? and when did it hit target boost ? how come the torque and HP curve crosses at different location
The car feels pretty good on the street. Remember, the stock WRX only makes 160 wlb-ft... notice how early it's got that... Again, the turbo WAS IN PREPARATION FOR THE 2.5. SS
Wow, beat me to it If both HP and TQ axes were the same scaling it would cross at 5250 rpm. If you look at 5250 rpm they are the same value (on their respective axis) SS
Do you realize that a fully tweaked stock turbo wrx makes about 75 to 80 hp at 3000rpms. Ill take the 5 to 10 hp loss.
Ok so when I saw this I figured I might as well pull out my dyno sheet and see how it matched up. My 2002 WRX at the time of this dyno (at Topspeed by the way) had only a catback exhaust and a perrin drop-in filter. At 3000rpms it put down about 105whp and about 185-190wtq....so wiht a fully tweaked stock turbo wrx I would assume faster spool and more boost by 3000rpms and much more than 105whp, much less 80.
You need to put the crack pipe down. Not only does a stock turbo (when tuned) crank out a lot more than 75-80 hp at 3k RPMs, it'll keep making a good bit more power until that massive 20G starts pumping. You're not honestly arguing that a 20G is nearly as driveable as a stock turbo on 2.0 engine are you?
see above moose...I tried to take a pic of my dyno sheet cause I dont have a scanner, but it came out crappy. You can still see the numbers so if you want to see it I can post it up.
You can just look at *any* tuned stock turbo chart... hell, even the OTS stage 2 map cars crank out like 110+ whp at 3 rpm.
Sorry I was looking at an 18g map, and as far as drive-ability goes, I probably know better than anyone on this board about driving a big turbo EJ205. Drive-ability is relative, I think that 20g is completely drivable, its spools about where the 30R did on the stock 2.0 and I had no problems driving it on the street. When I got my Subaru everyone said oh an 18g that's huge you cant run that on an ej205, I did it anyway, it worked great, I got bored with the power I ran a 30R people said that was too big, I did it anyway. Sometimes you have to push the boundaries. You adjust you're driving style to the turbo and the car. I personally would never even think of owning a car with less than a green and I would have to think very hard about that or a red.
Stock turbos go 13.0 to 13.5. This should go LOW 12's as-is, and with some race gas should have no problem running solid 11's. The owner IS a drag-racer, and is preparing for the 2.5. With the 2.5, the 20G will be on the small side. The owner had never heard of this board until yesterday. Matt and I assured him that this was the friendliest Subaru board around, please do not prove us wrong... SS
:werd: I am always amazed at how everyone comes out swinging (on any board) when 1 of 2 issues are discussed: 1) Tuning/HP and 2) Drag times (60ft, 1/4 mile, doesn't matter...) Everyone put your bait and tackle back in your pants and have a civil discussion please. Scott's rep and capability as a tuner should really no longer be a question (like all of the three major tuners in our market). His knowledge is well proven and documented here and else where. If you have questions, ask him in a way that any normally socialized person would, otherwise, don't bother....
Wow nice for pump only. Yeah guys give the guy the benefit of doubt. Take me in consideration......only making 362 tq and 352 hp yet I'm cranking out 11.6's in the 1/4 all day long. Obviously Scott knows what's he's doing.
I didn't mean anything I said as an insult and I hope it wasn't taken that way. Obviously there is lag he is running a man size turbo on a kid size motor. Lag is one of those things you have to deal with to make big numbers on a 2.0 or even a 2.5.
Matt, I wasn't specifically referring to your posts. I was aiming at those (I think its fairly obvious who they were) who were trying to find issues with the numbers, especially after the OP stated that this was in prep for a 2.5 numerous times.... As for the argument about lag and every day driving, I think that is, as many stated, a relative thing, lets just keep the debate a debate and not an argument.
i agree with u guys... lag is relative, and what constitutes tolerable lag varies from driver to driver... some prefer insta boost and prefer a small turbo... those people dont care if it makes no power up top... on the other hand, some people want more top-end... they will go with a bigger turbo and deal with the lag our cars don't make much power until at least 3000 rpm in stock form (i haven't driven a stock STi or WRX in a while so don't quote me on exact numbers)... also if i remember correctly, the new 335 makes peak torque at only 1500rpm... the evo, in stock form is laggier than the others... but i wouldn't say the evo isn't 'drivable', though someone with a 335 might think so bottom line, different people like different things... if u don't like a particular setup, it doesn't mean that its bad... some people prefer to buy name brand stuff... some others prefer to buy e-bay goods... the way i look at it, as long as the owner is happy, then thats all that matters please respect the fact that others may not have the same goals with their vehicle as you do... this is stated in the rules and regulations (link provided in my signature)... we have been drama free for a long time now and we will do what it takes to keep it that way
I didnt mean to insult anyone either, I was just trying to correct the statement that slowwrx said about a negligible difference in lag between the stock wrx turbo and the 20g. sorry that it caused a controversy. ps - those numbers look great and the either TD06h-18g or 20g is on my wish list so im interested in seeing how it runs at the track
This thread is of particular interest to me as I am planning the same swap and was considering the TD06-20g as one of the turbos to put on the car after. I was just discussing with a friend the other day what it might be like to put it on now with the 2.0. This kinda confirms my suspicions as to how it might drive. Liquidforce can vouch for the results of this turbo on a hybrid motor though and seems he had great results!
i think that everybody needs to chill the f*@k out! way too freaked about this whole conversation. btw, nice numbers scott. can't wait to get all my toys.
I don't think there's any drama as much as there are attempts to keep the information on the board as accurate as possible. We're getting a good size crowd here and when people search for info / read threads you want them to have the best information possible; a statement indicating that a 20g and a tuned stock turbo both make the same power at 3k is flat out wrong--by QUITE the margin--and you don't want people going out making purchasing decisions based on such inaccuracies. So pardon me, but I think that it's more important to maintain quality information than walking on eggshells to avoid offending every single person.
You should drive a 20g on a 2.0 before you make any decisions, its really not as bad as it appears on the dyno graph. My GT30R really only suffered slightly compared to an 18g on a 2.0 and I personally would take the 30R anyday, it pulls like a freight train.
Moose, I agree with the IDEA you present, but there are different ways of holding a discussion. I don't think that I stated or implied that we were worried about anyone being offended, rather, I want to keep the threads productive and on point. Name calling, pointed questions for no reason, and outright claims of lying are not helpful in keeping the information factual or useful for future readers. That being said, outside of the crackpipe comment, which actually had nothing to do with my original post, your posts were fine.
the discussion on the appropriateness of responses does not need to continue here... please send me a PM if anyone wants to discuss this further... now back on topic with the 20g
Y'all are too cute falling all over yourselves to be nice, apologizing and all. This is a cool crowd.:bigthumb: Oh, yeah, and I can't even imagine driving a WRX with an engine that puts out that kinda stuff. Gotta be fun. DD
^^ It is... very. Oh yeah, that would be my car you folks are talking about Sup Scott & Matt? If anyone wants to know other mods I have or vehicle info, related to the subject, just let me know. I'll try to answer your questions as best I can. I'll post some 1/4 times when I can get to the track, but this is not a daily driver for me- lag was never an issue. It's really not as noticeable as you might think.
Even with a TD06 housing? That is the only scary part to me at this point....having to wait an extra 1000 rpm+ for boost to set in. The 2.0 kind of falls on it's face before boost sets in. Yeah the 30R looks nice. The dominator 3 by Blouch is supposed to be pretty much the same as the GT30R and used the CHRA from a 30r...just not too many out there to see results...the theory is cool though. But the price is nice considering you don't have to go rotated...turbo is $1600 vs. rotated GT30R cheapest I have seen is like $3500 since you have to get new UP/DP and turbo inlet. Now if they just made a stock location twin scroll GT30R or equivalent!
I did a little write up on stock location vs rotated, its a decent read, not the end all be all but it will give you a better understanding of the reasons I dont like stock location turbos. The biggest reason is because of the location you always have to give up things, like a squished compressor cover. I run a GT30R that I had custom built by Precision that has a larger compressor cover and a small hotside, it spools quick and makes nice cool power, cooler denser air means more timing. Usally. Anyways, Ill stop messing up this thread and see if I can find the other thread. Matt
Ah, it all makes sense now. That late spool up time is because of the td06 exhaust wheel. :slap: I should have paid more attention in class... Which is why its in prep for a 2.5. If anyone wants to run a 20g on the stock 2.0 block, get a td05 exhaust wheel, not a td06. With good tuning, a td05 20g spools up by 3500rpm on a stock 2.0 block. I've got a nazi-socks link here somewhere... Found it: Link to thread: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11877294#post11877294