I wished I lived near Atl for GTE or near Jacksonville for WJM so that someone who knows what the heck they are doing can align my car. I've chewed up my fairly new Nittos on the outside of the wheel. Well the drivers front is balding on the outside and the pass front is wore in the middle. Go figure.....too many freaking redneck alignment shops here. The last shop I went to had this infrared system where it shoots a laser or infrared signal to a thingy on the wheels and used cameras to align. It's supposed to be some state of the art system but I'm not pleased with the outcome so far.
The laser one is what SOG has. It sucks balls. The optical one is the system with the cameras and blinking light shit, that works awesome *IF YOU KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE DOING* which most of the regular shops dont. "Its in spec! Its done!"
Will the toe was - on one side and + on the other. It was a 1 but I can't remember if it was .1 or .01. The guy said that makes the toe zero. I argued with him and it went no where. Is he right or should it have been 0 and 0 PERIOD?
Pics indicate toe wear. Ok, here's how it works: if one side is -0.02 and the other side is +0.02 then your overall toe is 0.00. But that makes the steering wheel off center. If the REAR is like that, then the front toe readings are WORTHLESS. For some reason (and I need to do more research on this in order to counter this situation) ALL of the alignment machines have the rear/front readings depend on each other. Example: Front overall toe is +0.50 Rear overall toe is -0.50 Correct the rear toe to 0.00 and the front now reads something different (cant remember off the top of my head) but its nowhere near the +0.50 that it was. So if the rear is - on one side and + on the other and then the front is put to 0.00 on both sides, the car will be crabbing down the road, and the wheel off center. So the rear MUST be equal side to side and as close (should be) to 0.00 overall as possible on a stiff car. Otherwise, the front will be off and NOT the actual reading on the machine. Both the laser and optical racks do this. The *ONLY* alignment machine proven time and time again is the string, tape measure and turn plate method. However, human error is still possible. But it does take machine error out of the picture.
How can I search around to see if I get someone who knows what the heck they are doing? Shoot I may just buy a set of tires and freaking drive to Atl or Jacksonville just for a damn alignment! Hmmm the wife is wanting to go to Florida.
This is a street car. I don't autox or track the car so I don't need that performance level. It's my daily that I drive 80 miles a day with. That help?
Updates.... I got my money back and told them to shove it. Then found out my good friend that works at Sears does alignments there. So I decided to give him a try since I'm not loosing any money. Lets just say I needed an alignment desperately. Front Drivers side Camber before -1 after -1.6 Toe before .65 (this pissed me off) after 0.00 Pass side Camber before -1.5 (sigh) after -1.6 Toe before .06 (again sigh) after 0.01 (that little bit isn't gonna matter much from what SS told me) Rear Driver side Camber before -.8 after -1.6 Toe before -.07 after -0.04 Pass side Camber before -1.9 after -1.6 Toe before .069 after 0.01 Now here is the issue. Look at the rear after toe numbers. Jeff is a good friend and a drifter. He knows the importance of alignment. Also I was there. He set the rear first and the camber was dead on and the toe was dead on zero. Then he worked on the front. Got it set and then rolled the car back and forth a little and now the the toe is off again? What the heck? Is it something to do with my suspension not loaded because it was once unloaded? Should we bounce the car up and down to make sure it's settled? The car is pulling to the right. My tires are all messed up but from what I understand that has nothing to do with alignment. I have Tein Flex coilovers with 8K springs all around if it matters. WJM please help me here......5+ hr drive is a long drive for just an alignment. Like SS told me....any alignment shop should be able to get this right.
A previous alignment that messes up the tires is going to cause the car to pull when the alignment is done RIGHT after the tires are messed up. But physically, the worn tires will not change the actual values, just make the car pull. Also, moving the car around on the rack will change the values by small amounts. The important thing is that when its tightened down (Starting with the rear first) that the values are where you want them. If you do the front first, then the rear, the front will ALWAYS be wrong. Its just how it works. I wish it wasnt this way. Looking at the after values, its all good EXCEPT the LEFT REAR. That -0.04 needs to be 0.00 +/- 0.01, just like the RIGHT REAR is.
So he needs to adjust that and then fix the front again and it should be right? When he gets done with the front the rear should still show the same right? Also I need him to fix that front again anyways.....the camber plates on the Teins aren't both set to the set tick mark....ones further in. I doubt I will ever mess with them but it's better to have them both set on the same thing right?
Yes. Adjusting the front does not change the rear. The rear affects how the machine reads the front. Doesnt really matter all that much, but it does make the car appear 'well sorted' for when you are showing it off.
As far as the rear goes the thrust angle ( the difference of the 2 rear toes divided in half) points your car in a given direction, so to speak.Hopefully that direction is perfectly straight ahead.If not their is a good chance that you will have a crooked steering wheel and possibly some handling issues if the back is screwed up enough.The alignment machine does not care about the condition of the tires.But they can cause issues on their own. Usually I recommend new tires and then immediately get an alignment.The exception would be if you have done enough changes to your suspension where driving to get an alignment would put noticeable wear on your tires.( i.e. new struts,tie rod ends etc at the same time.)Unless your careful to try to put it back together close to what it was.Do not just tear it all apart and throw it back together figuring the alignment guy will get it straight. As far as tires you have to be careful that the tech. is not trying to fix a tire pull and in turn messing up the alignment.(I have seen it happen). Coolrex did you get any caster readings?On most alignment machines rolling the car back and forth is a no no unless he was re-compensating the heads to see if any of the readings differ.Occasionally, if there is a lot of adjustment, this is done.
Of the 3 different machines I've been on, re compensating changes all values. You could be on the rack for YEARS and the cars will never read the same readings twice. SOG's rack was the WORST about this. Collins and SOJAX is much less of a difference, but its still not perfect. I'm going to spend a saturday cleaning up and doing a proper service on the rack here. Then play around some more as the Outback needs another alignment.
Went back yesterday and the car is wierd. He would dial in the camber on the rear and over shoot it a tad but back the bolt back wouldn't give him his values back? Finally got the car lined up and hopefully it's set. I hope so because I'm tired of this.
Its a SUBARU. Yep. Normal for a SUBARU and QUITE ANNOYING AS FUCKING FUCK FUCK. Seriously. Its annoying. Keep us updated.
Yeah Jeff looked at me and was like WTF? I personally saw the values and it's SET so we'll see. Ordering new tires today because my fronts (now rears) are chewed up. I'm buying cheapo Nexus tires just so I can get this alignment straight first....not gonna chew up a pricey set of tires.