Freaking car is acting up and being all wierd. I datalogged it and it looks fine but I can see a slight timing drop. The car used to pull like a bat out of hell all the way to redline but now it will start to surge a little at 5K and up. It's not bad but I can definately feel it and to me it feels like timing being pulled. Like the car wants to FLY but something is pulling it from behind. I dunno but this has happened ever since the heat came in. I understand that a car isn't as strong in the heat but I don't personally think it should like like it does. Also I am sick of smelling gas fumes constantly. It's simply WAAAAY too rich. Check boost leaks...nada. Plugs are new, compression test netted 155 across the board. Leakdown test passed with flying colors. I'm at a loss but needless to say I'm not completely happy as most of my playing and racing is in the summer. Maybe I need a retune in the summer heat as my last tune was the first of March when the 555 meet happened and if you recall it was COLD. I can't wait for fall to come and cooler weather.....it's a shame when I used to simply WALK away from VF34 cars and now they can stick close to me.
I would suggest a retune for the weather. If you use AP you could have a cold and a hot weather map and swap between them as needed.
get a retune if u want but the summer is almost over now and it should start getting colder in a couple months... SS saves your old maps so if u want your old map, he could drop it in for u
Thats kinda odd with meth injection youre intake temps should still be way down, I can see a drop in boost pressure since you are still sucking hot air into the turbo but I wouldnt expect it to be pulling timing since youre intake air temps would be low from the meth. Matt
I'm not sure so dont qoute me, but I think that it does, wait you know I thought it was the phase change from liquid to gas that provided the cooling but if thats the case it probally doesnt happen until it gets to the combustion chamber. matt
The intake air temps are measured at the MAF so no matter if you are spraying Meth the ECU thinks it's HOT. My IAT's are 150 - 160!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yikes I gotta build a box and get that heat out of there. At least now I can monitor it. It's killing me....my engine bay is pretty much a furnace.
you're probably right... but if its cool to begin with, it can absorb heat to reach boiling point (specific heat) and then to turn into vapor (latent heat of vaporization)... with it hot to begin with, it can absorb a lot less heat... a quick google search gave me this: Methanol: Specific heat = 2.51 kJ/( kg * deg K) Latent Heat = 1109 kJ/kg which means that the latent heat dominates and your logic seems correct... unless the meth hits 65 degrees celcius (boiling point) in the reservoir itself i have seen mine go up pretty high when standing still but if i roll at about 50mph, they come down to within 5 degrees of ambient within a minute
not that saying this solves anything, but shouldn't you do a tune in the summer to have the car set up for the "worst-case" anyways?
Man it is 84 degrees out and I was cruising at 60mph and what were the IAT's? 118 degrees......not gonna cut it. Time to get in the mad scientist garage and do a little fabbing and experimenting. I am gonna attempt to rivet up a box to surround the MAF and the filter to seperate it completely from the engine. Ceramic coat that box for added protection. If that doesn't help much then that filter is going in the fender well one way or another (damn FMIC and short rams). PVC pipe will be the test piece to experiment and if it works I am gonna make a CAI out of silicone. Probably would be even more beneficial to do both the box and the CAI. Also a box will be made for the meth kit with a hinge top for easy access. Maybe I'll have it fabbed up and nice looking by Nopi for you guys that are interested.
Before I go any further, what exactly do you have in your bay in terms of temp. reduction and protection? A few brief ideas. Assuming everything in there is well shielded and that the need for cooler air is the main issue here let's mull through our options. A solid box to cover the entire area is a step in the right direction, however, it neglects the major problem: direct flow to the intake, maf, etc. What are your ideas for moving air into there? Here's one to consider, you could fab the fender to have an inlet in it that pipes the outside air directly in, using the fender as a bit of a hs as well. The major drawbacks I see to this are driving in heavy rain, etc (ie. might want to not do that). You could also consider some sort of custom intake mounting to let the cone sit right there by the hoodscoop. This is another direct inlent for outside air and since you are using a fmic, you do have the space. It would take some thinking, but with time and proper heat shielding, I think its something (if you truly are bored) to consider.
what about an upgraded radiator, with better hoses?....colder plugs...oil cooler...just throwing some stuff out there, don't flame me if I'm way off, just was thinking of things I heard can help battle heat...
The fender thing will be a no no as rain will wet the filter and that is a diaster waiting to happen. I am gonna box in the MAF and the filter to close the heat source off. Then the filter is gonna be placed in the fender up high like a CAI. I am gonna have to pull something off but I am thinking of removing the STi foglight cover and using the one WRX foglight insert to make a 'collector'. Then somehow I will direct all that air up towards the filter. The turbo will do the job of sucking the air itself into the intake tract. Only concern I mostly have is that my inner wheel well plastic thingy got chewed up by the wider tires I have when it popped loose back in the day. But that isn't a great concern because the direction of water being thrown in wet conditions will be away and towards that hole so it's hard for water to travel backwards into the filter. I'll document and try to keep track of what I do for future use by someone else. My coolant temps are just fine.....it's all that metal piping and all that is making this so hot and the fact that the intake is resting on a heat shelf beside the turbo, uppipe, and exhaust collector.
Here is what intake temps will do to your timing. I belive these are the stock values. If you are seeing 150-160 I would imagine your car would feel very slow.
yeah it was cool when I was getting tuned and we'd be sitting for long periods of time and the temps would get pretty high, but with my CAI after just a short distance, those temps went back to normal a lot quicker than I thought it would....so I think your definitely taking the right route...
i've got a stock airbox without the elbow and on a hot day im seeing temps around 150, i also need to figure something out. Scott said with IAT's that high the car could be down anywhere near 30 lb ft .
If your IATs are 150-160 you probably will see some timing getting yanked. My Cobb map starts pulling timing when IAT hits 140; I think stock map is setup the same.
Oh it's yanking timing alright even though I can't really see it in the datalog well but my butt can feel it. Just took a look see at the engine bay and yikes this is gonna be tricky. The MAF is way out inside that the box will be tricky....I'll figure this out one way or another!
I think SS hates tuning Blowthru Maf's. I remember a Sti he was tuning and the Blowthru was being finiky.
What up? do you a perrin EBCS? it sound like you could be over boosting a little and the factor boost controler is fighting you. also check with your tuner.
I have EBCS. It isn't over boosting. It's the heat as I called SS and sent him logs and he comfirmed it. He pulls timing at 122 degrees of IAT and pulls more timing and a little boost at 140+. I am sitting at 120-160 degrees constantly. I am making a CAI now.
Was thinking about making something like this before. I don't have the constraint of a FMIC, but looking at all the space that the AEM short ram is going to free up there has to be something that could be fabricated that could box it off and direct cold air into it from the outside. Somehow it seems I could use the stock inlet scoop and some piping to direct it to a sealed box around the short ram. I was actually thinking of polycarbonate or lexan. It has good insulating properties, better than metal, and is easy to fabricate with. I just wonder if it could take the under hood temps without deforming. I am going to have to contact the local plastics place and find out, but imagine a clear box around the filter/maf assembly! Would look sweet and be quite functional. Edit: New news, seems lexan has a temp resistance up to 280 degrees F. Think that would be enough?
Dunno. If the idle intake air temps can get up to 195 then it could get that hot but I doubt it unless something on the box was directly touching the engine.
Now what's the point in that.....I have too much fun in the rain....lol I'm gonna build a box and relocate that filter. Then I am gonna take a shot at using Enginuity to tweak my maps some. I'm running WAY too rich for my liking and I don't think my car should be so dependent (I am saying not AS dependent not non-dependent) on the IAT's provided I have FMIC and meth inj. I mean seriously the air is cooled down WAY more in my setup than a typical setup where the IAT play a bigger role.
Well I know that the factory uses quite a bit of abs plastic which is only rated in genaral at a max of 220 degrees F acroding to the sites I found. Seems that 280 f should be plenty! I have done some acrylic fabrication. It is not too tough to work with, easy to bend and easy to bond. Might have to get on this. I think that the 1/4" thick stuff should be easy enough.
Just to ease some confusion....I was very happy with my tune but something is amiss as I am running 9.7-9.8 AFR's now. Also the IAT's are wayyy up there. My car ran like a beast clocking multiple 11.7-11.9's until this heat wave came in a few months ago. Last time I've been to the track was a good 2 months ago and it was chilly that night in Va Beach where I was racing. This has nothing to do whatsoever with the tune itself. The dependency could be a little lower on the IAT but the IAT shouldn't be that high to begin with. I am trying to fix that issue. Then when I get the IAT if the AFR isn't going down then I have a leak or something most likely. I have checked everywhere for one and can't find one but SS seems to think something is not jiving like it should be. Just bc you can't see or hear something doesn't mean it's not there.
What is your IM at? Running that rich it sounds like you are in the high det fuel map or maybe you have an intake leak after the turbo. Are the 9.7-9.8 AFR's when you are in boost?
When you say IM you talking about the Advanced Ignition Multiplier? If so I can't get EcuExplorer to show it to me. The AFR's are at WOT.
Yes. Guys on ECUExplorer, what are all the values that I need to select and log? I have noticed that ECUExplorer will only let you log so many.
I see that but there are like a million of them and they display something like 255???? Makes no sense to me. I thought it was 0 - 16?
Yep its 020120. 16 which is what I want. Well it was pretty cool last night and the AFR's were rock solid at 10.4 which is what it should be. That answers one question....there are no leaks apparently. The problem is indeed the IAT's. I have been buried in a HUGE project at work for the last two weeks working 12 hr days so I haven't had time to work on the box. Hopefully I will get time to do that this weekend. We'll see. I still don't see how the IAT's affect the AFR at all. It should yank timing and boost but the AFR should not change....or should it?
Yes. 10.2 to 10.4 On purpose. Stoich for meth is in the 9's. (Stoich for gas is 14.7, and we run near 11, so with stoich for meth being 9, you can imagine how rich it would be on pure meth...) Peak power on meth-injection is usually realized between 10.2 and 10.4. By 10.6 it won't run as much timing. Unfortunately, on the other end, at 9.9 it's already losing power, and by 9.8 it's barely running. It's a fairly narrow window But when you get it right it's Just. So. Sweet. SS
Thanks for explaining that Scott. You think the richness has to do with the timing and boost being yanked due to the insanely high IAT's? On another note Scott I was just a smiling last night and this morning. Felt that get ready to hold one and plant you in the seat feeling again. Made be feel better and know that the problem isn't a big one but something that needs to be fixed. I hope you understand what I was saying yesterday and also understand where I am coming from. I love the tune when the car runs right but when something like the IAT's mess it up I get frustrated and start rambling. All's well bc without friends like you to point me in the right direction I wouldn't know what to look for right off the bat.
I've come with a solution I think and SS agrees that he thinks it'll work. This involves 3 steps and a lot of ingenuity and fabrication. 1) I still have my passenger side WRX foglight insert. I am gonna JB Weld or something of that sort a metal or plastic 'collector' that will gather the air up and feed a pipe. That pipe will be a hard plastic flexi tube that will not collapse that will route from the foglight hole to the rear hole in my fender. This will feed cold ambient air to the engine bay. 2) The filter is sitting below the rear fender hole due to the intake tube having to point down in order to clear the FMIC piping. On the engine side of the hole I am gonna take a flared metal shield that will 'force' the air to blow down on the filter and MAF sensor. 3) To keep all the heat out and the ambient air in a box will be built much like the APEXi induction box that the filter and the MAF sensor will reside in. With the piping feeding ambient air, the shield forcing that air down on the filter, and the box containing this air and block the engine temp air, I think this will work great. It'll be a pain for sure and hard but I know I can do it if I am creative and patient. If I can build an engine I know I can do this. If the temps are still staying up a little I will get a turbo blanket for the turbo and heat wrap the downpipe. Wish me luck guys. After all of this I am making a box for the meth tank and pump.