INTERESTING CONVERSATION An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty. He asks one of his new Christian students to stand and..... Professor :[/B] You are a Christian, aren't you, son? Student :Yes, sir. Professor :[/B] So you believe in God? Student :Absolutely, sir. Professor :[/B] Is God good? Student :Sure. Professor :[/B] Is God all-powerful? Student : Yes. Professor :[/B] My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm? (Student is silent.) Professor :[/B]You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good? Student :Yes. Professor :[/B] Is Satan good? Student : No. Professor :[/B] Where does Satan come from? Student : From...God... Professor :[/B] That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world? Student : Yes. Professor :[/B] Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct? Student : Yes. Professor :[/B] So who created evil? (Student does not answer.) Professor :[/B]Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they? Student :Yes, sir. Professor :[/B] So, who created them? (Student has no answer.) Professor :[/B] Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God? Student : No, sir. Professor :[/B]Tell us if you have ever heard your God? Student : No , sir. Professor :[/B] Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter? Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't. Professor :[/B] Yet you still believe in Him? Student : Yes. Professor :[/B] According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son? Student : Nothing. I only have my faith. Professor :[/B] Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has. Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat? [B]Professor :[/B[/B]] Yes. [B]Student :[/B] And is there such a thing as cold? [COLOR=DarkRed][B]Professor :[/B[/B][/COLOR][B]] Yes. [B]Student :[/B] No sir. There isn't. (The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.) [B]Student :[/B] Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it. (There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.) [B]Student :[/B] What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness? [COLOR=DarkRed][B]Professor :[/B[/B][/COLOR][B]] Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness? [B]Student :[/B]You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you? [COLOR=DarkRed][B]Professor :[/B[/B][/COLOR][B]]So what is the point you are making, young man? [B]Student :[/B] Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed. [COLOR=DarkRed][B]Professor :[/B[/B][/COLOR][B]] Flawed? Can you explain how? [B]Student :[/B] Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey? [COLOR=DarkRed][B]Professor :[/B[/B][/COLOR][B]] If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do. [B]Student :[/B] Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? (The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.) [B]Student :[/B]Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher? (The class is in uproar.) [B]Student :[/B] Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain? (The class breaks out into laughter.) [B]Student :[/B] Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it?.....No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir? (The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.) [COLOR=DarkRed][B]Professor :[/B[/B][/COLOR][B]] I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son. [B]Student :[/B] That is it sir.. The link between man & God is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive.[/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b]
lol And it's actually pretty rare you find a real scientist that will deny the exsistance of something that has to be holding this universe together. I would take a stab at most of those questions but I would bore you all and I have a flight to KC soon.
Talking about religion is like talking about cars. Some people, no matter what you say, cannot bend in their view of the subject. While this exchange purports to show how science, in its rigidity of thought and search for empirical, testable data disregards lack of some of the very same for well respected theories, it also highlights an issue with religion, obviously unintentionally. Doesn't the professor, at the end, concede the point? That, in my opinion, is where most scientists and most devoted religious believers differ. While I believe in God, I also believe in science. I am willing to accept that both can exist, and that all our beliefs regarding both may be proven wrong at some point. Most scientists are willing to adjust their points of view, even throw away complete schools of thought, if proven to be incorrect. Religion often does not allow for such blatant rejection of its premises, NO MATTER WHAT. I have fundamental and long standing issues with religion, and that seems to suit God just fine....
dark matter holds our ever expanding universe together and the answers to everyones questions are just on the other side of that big black hole in the center.....you guys can go first and report back
I went to a private Christian school for 9 years; so I've seen both sides of the coin so to speak. I think if you incorporate a little of each into life things would be easier to accept, but there will always be people on opposite ends of the spectrum.
recent study is now saying there is no dark matter, or was it there is no anti-matter? im no scientist, but i did stay at a holiday inn express. Basically to me, christianity is bs, since islam, judism, and christianity all spring from the same tree, just christianity takes it to the extreme with the new testiment. (my opinions, please dont slam me) but that last part is true.
i think we all know each other well enough where we can all respect each others beliefs... personally i dont like threads about religion, politics, race and/or abortion... however, since everything seems civil so far, we'll let this thread stay... please respect each others views and dont let this thread get out of hand also, if anyone is offended by anything in this thread, please PM one of the admins or moderators
Sol, AWD is the best religion, anyone can join and you go to heaven right away (without dying...)! To back Milo's point, you can def. PM if this thread makes anyone feel uncomfortable. I will also monitor since I have posted in it and will not heistate to lock it if it goes beyond civil discussion.
i usually try to avoid discussion about religion because most times it is one person trying to convince the other that they are right. and that is never good. i have a very strong christian belief but that is my belief and i'm not going to force it on someone else, or look down on anyone who believe differently. not slamming you but one thing i will throw out there is this... the one thing that separates christianity from all other religions is this: all other religions are based on works... ie. good deeds will gain entrance to heaven. christianity is based soley on faith... good deeds alone will not gain entrance to heaven.
im not exactly sure what you mean by christianity takes it to the extreme with the new testiment. i assume that you are reffering to the story of jesus (i know, assuming can get me in trouble). to adress that, my very basic understanding of Islam is that they believe in Jesus and what he did they just dont believe in the "Son" of god aspect. i myself am a Christian but i also believe no matter what your faith as long as you are a good hearted person and live your life in a repectable manor you will end up in heaven, isnt that what Jesus said anyway? i guess im just not quite sure whta you mean by taking it to the extreme and why it is BS. if this is is getting out of hand i will remove it, i really dont like discussing this type of thing because its a very sensative subject for some. Alex
damn...look what the moderator started... :rofl: well, as far as extreme is measured in religion, in my opinion muslim "extremists" kinda have that on lock right now, hence the name....but i guess throughout history you can look several religions and consider their actions extreme....i think whatever makes you happy and gets you up in the morning is cool as long as it doesn't hurt anyone...religion is a little different for everyone that's what makes it special and personal.. just my .02
oppps.. didnt think this was going to start that. I just found the response of the student very interesting... You can slap me for this thread next time Milo
Heh, I thought this sounded familiar... http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp Interesting read too.
I find myself more aligned with Buddhists than Christians when it comes to religion/philosophy. I believe completely in science but I also believe that you should be good to your fellow man. How can any good come from wanting bad things to happen to others? I have always been confused about religous peoples obsession with abortion/pro life but their unflappable support of the death penalty and war. As far as I am concerned killing anyone is bad. Faith is faith and science is science. They should be taught in seperate classes. What has happened in Kansas with the intelligent design / evolution argument is yet another chapter in science vs religion. They are two seperate things. The Kansas school board has changed the definition of science to include that "the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power". Remember that just about 500 years ago the same religous people were convinced the world was flat and the universe revolved around the Earth. Anyone saying other wise was burned at the stake. Don't take me the wrong way. When religion is used as a moral compass it's a good thing. When it's telling you the world is flat when all the evidence says it's spherical you need to question the beliefs motive. corrected for bad grammar
thats freakin amazing....talk about balls to the walls haha. On a serious note though thats really an impacting speech. smart kid too.
I'm glad you wrote this, now I don't have to. I do believe strongly in generally being a good, helpful person. As much as it sucks seeing morally corrupt people get ahead briefly, I can't help but think that one day it'll catch up with them; that you can't get away with mistreating people and acting selfishly your entire life. When some a-hole cuts me off in traffic or runs a red light or whatnot, I tend to initially get pissed and then think to myself that I just had to deal with this jerkoff for a few seconds, while he has to live with being himself 24/7...and will eventually have to face the consequences of his actions. As for religion, I am lucky that my religious friends aren't trying to "save" me... we have had discussions about religion, and I explain to them that my philosophy is simply trying to be the best person I can be and to be helpful and kind to others whenever possible. They don't really argue with that, and don't push religion on me. If there is indeed a heaven, I don't think actively being religious is anywhere near as important as being a decent person.