yeahh i've always wondered that too.. Don't really know much about it..but how exactly does it work?..is it safe?
From what I have gathered, it is pretty decent as long as it is working, lol. But that is like everything on our cars. Some have various failsafes like indicators if the nozzle gets clogged or it is low on fluid. Other than that it is as safe as the tune! It actually allows you to run cooler cylinder temperatures as well as a higher octain which equals more det protection. But most take advantage of this to turn up the timing and boost which kinda cancels the safety net.
i thought i heard somewhere, someone saying it actually can corrode your engine. also, if i have ecutek, i'd have to get an hour of tuning done...correct? how much WHP would that be on average for the STi? i've always been curious but kinda scared to charter in the meth territory.
It *could* corrode your engine, but no one's seen it yet. Several people on here are running meth including me. More meth=more power so it just depends on how many miles you want your tank to last
Again, hopefully someone with more experience with this will chime in becaue I have never had or run a meth kit, but the corrisive nature of meth (or denatured alcohol which is also used) is drastically diminished when it is mixed with water. I think a lot of people run a 50/50 mix which is not too corrosive at all. The thought is that in a turbo engine with the boost and heat that it is running, any extra that might have a chance to lay around to pool and sit and corrode aluminum evaporates almost immediately. As for HP gains, I think it all depends on what you have to work with, what turbo you have, how close your tune is to being maxed out, etc. I think the meth can help get things spooled up quicker and usually make more hp throughout the power band.
I ran meth for a year before I had to do a shortblock swap. When I pulled the heads off everything looked fine. Well with the exception of the ringlands on #2. I made a post awhile back that I thought it had taking out my plugs but it turned out the plugs had twice the mileage I thought they did. The condition of the plugs was normal for the mileage.
Also considering this a bit mire now...looks like the kit from TS is based off of Snow Performance kit. It has the Safe Injection and the MAF options added on to it.
Don't forget that one of our very own members, rollingtrip, has a very nicely heat-wrapped SMC meth kit he's still trying to sell. http://www.wrxatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10357 Also, coolingmist is a local-to-the-ATL area injection kit manufacturer. www.coolingmist.com
Damn and I just dropped $1200 on property tax today...wish that could have gone elsewhere....this and the 6 speed doug had would have been sooooo nice.
Good deal I bought mine for about the same price and sent it back to SMC and they converted it to trunk mount 50 bucks and tested everything. I think rear mount is key for the heat issues under the hood...that heat combined with the somewhat corrosive nature of pure meth may wear on the rubber fittings (pump to meth tank) I see no such problems with my trunk mount setup. I have had mine for about 6 months and have had no problems what so ever.
SMC just spent $14,000 having a mold made to make the seals in the pumps out of a "meth-proof" material. I believe there is a 0.0% failure rate on the new pumps... SS
Good to know. Their kit seems like a pretty decent one. They give you any problems tuning them Scott?
mine has been heat wrapped to combat the heating issue, which works very well. also it has already been sent back to SMC to have the new style seals put in it, so it is ready to go. I have never been a big fan of putting meth in the cabin of the car, or running the plastic tubing under the car, that is supplied with the kit. I would highly recommend you stay away from the Snow kits, it think it was Stephen(xnoodles) that had 2 pumps fail on him. I guess if you wanted a rear mount tank, i would strongly suggest investing in stainless steel braided reinforced hose for the run, from the trunk to the engine. I price that my self, and with a resale discount it was around $75 for just the hose.
Yep. I have been through 3 in the past. If anyone is gonna pop a meth seal it will be me. I am 'the' first to have these new seals on the SMC kit and it's holding rock solid. The old seals would start getting wet after a month of use but now the new ones are as dry as they can be. I got my kit from Lisa at SOG and it's the SMC kit. The new seals are black now. Old seals are red. Steve at SMC also sells the trunk mounted kit which is what I have. I HIGHLY recommend it. You can also ask SS about the new kit as he noticed that since I got the new seals my meth kit pumps out a LOT of methanol which is good. More meth = more timing = more POWA!
I like the SMC kits because they use ALL braided stainless and brass fittings. I worry about the plastic lines melting, getting pinched, or even getting cut... Steve (the owner of SMC) is AWESOME. In the past, before the new seals, if a pump failed he would overnight, red-label (even Saturday delivery) a new tank and pump at HIS cost. His customer service has been 100%. He almost always answers his phone, and if I leave a message I believe I have always been called back within one day. When we started to have issues with some of the under-hood kits he stepped up and spent $14,000 to make sure that there would not be any more failures. There have never been many failures with the trunk-mounted kits (wich he provides the 14' stainless line for), but with the new seals, they should be worry free. The under-hood kits are still available ($499), and with some thermal protection, and the new seals they should be fine. That said, the bigger trunk-mounted kits are really nice. There are a handful of Spec C tanks still available, or he can setup your STi IC sprayer tank (if you have one), and his "universal trunk tank" works well too. We've done them all in the last few months and haven't had any issues. If you send him a Spec C or normal STi tank, the rest of the kit (inlcuding the 14' stainless line) is $499. If you buy the "Universal trunk mount kit" it's $549 with the new trunk tank and the 14' stainless line. SS
How are these compared to some of the other progressive kits to tune Scott? Also what is your take on the debate of 50/50 vs 100% meth? Some big name engine builders have stated that running 50/50 (or any real amount of water) can cause premature engine failure due to water not compressing and slipping past the piston rings.
I could not agree any more, this exact situation found us. I had just gotten it back from a trunk mount conversion, he tested all put a brand new pump, depite it being bad, then sent one to SS. Quick props to SS for quickly locating a pump and finishing in one day. Steve got back within an hour of the call and got one to Scott asap... his customer service is unmatched. 50 bucks for the conversion and he included the 16ft stainless braided to run through the cabin. SMC FTW
What about running meth on a stock wrx wit tbe? I was thinking about getting rolling_trip kit he has for sale.
^^I got the SMC Kit. as for as the power gains on my sti...... TBE, EBCS, Ecutek = 291whp, 334 wtq +meth and big tmic = 337 whp, 413wtq U do the math, it was worth every penny. the car was brand new to me after that day
I could not find the exact post Milo. I did find that there is a thought that water could get forced past the rings and contaminate the oil. Richard L from Aquamist says while it is possible he has not seen it in a healthy engine. I could not find the post regarding the recommendation of any engine builders for or against a 50/50 mix though. Just something I stumbled upon that may or may not have been a misunderstanding by the poster.
Milo and crashtke you probably heard that from me. I had a 30 min conversation with Ron at Axis. Mind you Ron is one of the best Subie engine builders out there. He told me that he has seen evidence of what crasktke was saying on several motors. He himself recommended that you run 100% alky or none at all. I'm just saying what he said.
There was Milo, but for the life of me I could not find it last night. I did look for quite some time, but there are just a TON of threads on there about meth.
if you guys find something useful, please post it up here: http://wrxatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4314
That said, unless Scott recommends against it I think I will still go with a 50/50 mix. While I guess it is possible that it could get past the rings, I think the benefits of the water injection as well as the reduced flammability of the mixture makes it a good option. Just gotta watch your oil to make sure it is not getting fouled by water. But according to the manufacturers that I have read, the amount of water in a 50/50 mix is really only 2x the amount that you get on a rainy day while driving your car in the rain.
^^I am fairly sure SS will NOT recommend the 50/50 mix...When we installed mine and he tuned I asked that very question as SMC's website says to do a 50/50 mix. I personally would not like the moisture in the engine.
actually he told me 50/50 wouldnt be a bad idea... from what i hear, its easier on the seals... now SMC is supposed to have new seals so 50/50 might not be needed
I guess my whole issue with the 50/50 is the mixture. How can I be sure the consistency of batches that I mix subsequent to the batch that is tuned. Scott wanted to datalog my car if I used the cheap walmart meth instead of heet. I guess with the trunk mount I do not have to worry about the seals at least if one goes meth dries up quickly in the trunk.LOL
assume ur tank holds 2 gallons... buy a gallon jug of distilled water... mark the level when full... pour the water into your tank... now fill the empty jug with meth till you reach the mark... pour the meth into the tank... you now have a 50/50 mix garnish with mint leaves and serve over ice... shaken, not stirred
I would just like some more opinions on it. It has been used in engines since ww2 on the aircraft side of things, so you would think there was some conclusive evidence one way or the other. My thought is that some of the engine builders have been shown to use drop in pistons vs. using bore matched pistons and the water contamination (and burning oil for that matter) may be due to ptw clearances. This is just a thought. I have nothing to back this, but I know that there have been several big name builders who have been found to use drop ins and have problems with built blocks. Could it be that these same builders are also the same ones recommending against water in the mix? I have not found a stock short block engine that has shown any type of problem with a 50/50 mix.