Opinions on which turbo to buy? or setup to reach my goals?

As of right now I am looking to keep my STI stock until I sale my Z at the end of the year... :wtc: I dont want to sale it but need to get some of my investment back out of the car... over $175k into that project...:eek3: Well anyway, I am starting to plan the mods for the 2008 STI... I am pretty familiar with turbo cars and I am just curious since there are sooo many turbo offerings for this car which would best fit my needs.

Here is what I am looking for:
-Quick spool... full boost by say 4500
-AWHP goal around 400-450 I will be happy with just under 400 for stock block.
-Potential for growth 500awhp+ (i dont mind upgrading turbos if it means I get better spool response in the beginning)
-I will be looking into exhausts and DP combos something with a deep tone but not overly loud. Loud to me is an s2000 with 80mm exhaust that sets off car alarms as I drive down the road at 40+mph (that exhaust got me into too much trouble!!!)

Also where are the weak points on the STI drivetrain... i.e. what tends to break first. Any other pointers with modding this car would be helpful. I will also be searching this and other forums to help answer my questions.

thanks for all your help,

Mike

 

first aftermarket part you need to purchase will be an Evo VIII, that should take care of your power and fast spool needs.

 

hahaha I hate evo's

I was thinking of the titek exhaust it sounds freaking phenomenal!!!!

 

drop in pistons, 6262 rotated kit with supporting mods (injectors, pumps, etc.)

450whp, 550whp on race gas

win

 

What happen to people doing research on their own?
Oh and I have a hard time you've put $175k into a 370z.

 

Don't forget the ridiculus amounts of cash for AN fittings

 

Not hard to believe, the question is why.

Best way to achieve those numbers and it be reliable is go rotated

 

Yeah my main thought on this is which sized turbo... everyone has their own brand of the similar sized turbos... and this also comes down to tune too but I am trying to figure out which turbo housing/brand is going to be fast spooling while still being able to hit 400+whp on pump gas.

 

As to questioning the $175k into the Z... its a supercar/showcar... my motor alone costs over $20k... My turbo kit cost close to $20k... All the supporting mods, custom traction control, GTR intake plenum swap, Custom Quad Exhaust, $7k body kit, Custom Interior.... it all adds up especially when you add in labor!

 

I am doing my own research. I am just asking peoples opinions and help in guiding me in the right direction...

Mike

 

You will learn that 95% of members on here are assholes, only reason they get on is to bash on people. And there is the 5% that gets on here to help others out and chit chat.

 

20G will get you near 400hp and the spool will be nice. Throw a meth kit on and you will easily get 400hp out of it.

 

Thanks:wavey:

 

i feel like i fall into both categories...

 

New efr line turbo? Still waiting to see how they perform.

 

Go rotated and then pick your poinson on the turbo. Precision 6265, Garret GTX-35r, Borg Warner EFR 7670. Any of them will get you to your goal whp and they will all be good for close to 600whp on race gas/E85. Stock location turbo will be a waste of money IMHO.

 

and you are the one to talk. I dont think I have seen one thing helpful come out of any of your posts.

 

Mike you should probably stop by TopSpeed and Chat with Cicio and Doug. They have both had quite a few different setups on their personal cars and have done tons of big power setups on customer cars.

They have their own co-branded kit that AMS builds for them. It comes with the new Billet wheel Garrett turbos. The smallest kit is more than capable of your goals.

I'm usually up there as well helping out or working on my car. Ill be happy to show you my setup and take you for a ride if you like.

Matt

 

You're right. I come on here to shop.

 

nice thing about going straight to rotated is you'll have multiple options within just one turbo without having to change much if any of your setup.

 

Thanks Matt!

I have been to top speed before. I will definitely make plans to stop by the shop! last time I was there Scott worked there before he left for Forged Performance.

 

As much as I respect Scott and his tuning capabilities... I will not be going to Forged Performance. My reasoning stems from the 370Z world, my experiences and several friends of mine experiences. Dont get me wrong since Scott joined there they must be killer at tuning and building STI's... I would however, rather shop elsewhere. Again, I dont want anyone to think I am bashing Forged Performance or trying to bring bad blood into the forums. They may have a great STI program but I just dont feel comfortable leaving my car in their hands.

I will definitely try out TopSpeed and Killshot!

Mike

 

i can see 175k on built car like that.

i saw someone spend around 70k in the early 80s on a custom datsun 510. but sheese thats a lot of money. would buy a new twin turbo 911 or a significant down payment on an LFA.

im curious. what are you going to do with the z? sell it outright? part it out?

anyway, if i was into spending that kind of money and was looking into an sti, perhaps a cosworth block, maybe a fullrace turbo kit and a KAPS sequential dog box. ohlins fully adjustable suspension etc etc

ETA who built your 370? what shop(s)

 

Much respect for you mike. I can see why you have so much invested in your car.

http://www.forcegt.com/performance-builds/build-1000-horsepower-twin-turbo-nissan-370z-part-1/

 

To early in the morning for the hate mail and and hate calls Matt?

 

Trust me thats why I dont want to go down that road...

But back on topic for those who want to know GTM built my Z... They designed the motor, the turbo kit and really have done a hell of a job building this car! To repeat my performance parts and install alone would cost over $100k The wheels on the car are valued at $7k luckily I am dealer for them and also sponsored by them as well.

As far as the STI is concerned I really like what AMR has done with their kits... I want something really clean aesthetically looking and maybe even sleeper ish... Since the car is Matte Black *which I am loving!!!!* I think I am going to stick with the Matte Black darked out theme... I am also debating on cracking open the headlights and installing an LED mod for DRL's and possibly doing a demon eyes style mod... where the projectors glow inside like angry eyes hehehe.

 

And by DRL mod I am talking about installing a custom themed DRL and removing the factory one...

 

Honestly, the AMS kits are by far the best kits I have seen in person for the Subaru platform. All of the other kits have generic universal hoses.....AMS has hoses made for their specific use and not use a universal part. The cast up pipe is also a nice added touch. I know what kind of money they had to invest to get the tooling made for these parts so it tells me they are in it for the long haul.

 

We are partial to the Borg Warner line of turbos. All the kits we have built and tuned have surprised me. The new EFR line is simply amazing in theory and we should have some tested on other platforms by the end of the month. As far as I now Killshot and Full Race are currently the only people building kits around them, although there are some rumors and sneak pics of a Cosworth EFR Borg Warner rotated kit.

As Integroid and others have said go straight to rotated for your goals. I just think stock location would be a waste if you are shooting for 400-450 on pump and you will end up buying parts twice.

 

Thanks guys! I am definitely going rotated there is no doubt about that... Going rotated opens up soo many options! I need to look more into the EFR turbos as they look really promising!

As far as built motors go... how do the stock internals hold up? I know in the Z our internals are good for about 600whp before we need to switch but again thats a whole different platform. Mike what have you guys seen with this platform. At what point would yall suggest going built block? Would a simple replacement of components suffice or would there need to be more done to the motor? ie cams, port and polished heads and etc...

 

I'm with Eddie on this one. I built my own kit and while its nice and works well, I will most likely be going with a new TopSpeed\AMS Garrett GTX35R kit. The new Billet compressor wheel Garrett turbos are awesome and the construction quality of the kit is really nice.

 

Well Amonsta with our smallest Borg rotated kit made just under 400 hp and has almost 200,000 miles on the motor with almost 40k with tune and kit on it

 

400whp is pretty safe on the stock motor, I've seen some customers at Topspeed making 500-550whp on a AMS 900X kit but your time running a stock motor that hard is limited and those customers knew that and intended to build the car later.

A built block is always a good way to go if you don't mind spending the money. If you keep it under 550whp then you don't need to sleeve the block anything over that and you should consider it. Theres another option that I personally like better than sleeving and if you want to know about that hit me up its to complicated to explain on the forum but Ill be happy to explain it in person.

Heads....Ah thats where the magic is a nice port and polish and some good cams and the car will really make power.

 

Heads is where it's at, just a simple port match on everything from the intake down will make a noticable difference on a otherwise stock WRX.

 

mixon but yeah you got it right...

 

I thought you would remember crawling all in the Z before it left for cali... when you and Joe were meeting me at perimeter mall. I think it was for an s2k meet almost a year ago.

 

So I am debating against a GTX3071R or a GTX3076R...

I get more Top end from what I have seen from the 76R but I get more power under the curve with the 71R.... ahhhhh decisions!!!!

 

You won't notice any real difference in power under the curve with the 76R but you will get a lot more topend. The GTX3076R is going to be a beast of a turbo.

 

Welcome to the boards Bullitt..

You have already gotten some good advise from the Knowledgable guys on the board, I will try to add some explanation to it for you if I can.

Option #1 (stock location)

Stock location turbos are a great option for 350-400ish whp on the STI. The biggest one we recommend is a 20g. The reasoning behind that is pretty simple. Stock location turbos are made to fit is a specific location which makes them very hard to design for flow. While the turbo companies do the best they can its very hard to achieve both optimal flow characteristics as well as make a turbo fit in specific dimensions.

Bigger than 20g stock location turbos require tons of drive pressure in order to reach the desired boost pressure. Increasing drive pressure leads to dirty combustion and detonation, which we all know is bad.

That being said the hotside design on the new Blouch 20g XT is by far the best we have seen to date. That turbo with the 10cm hotside really performs very well. Anything bigger than that is, in our opinion, a receipt for a blown motor.

Option #2 (rotated)

As many have said there are several different turbo options once you go rotated. The main advantage here is that the turbo can be designed with the sole purpose of optimal flow. Some hotsides flow better than others, we have found the Tial v-band to be the best we have used.

There are lots of kits out there, but most of them just welded pipe and generic hosing. That is why we joined forces with AMS to provide what we felt was the most quality, tested kit on the market.

After years of doing this we have honestly found the Garrett 30/35R to be the best option for the Subaru configuration. Subaru has a very unique turbo placement being so far from the actual manifold and because of that they are very picky.

We have not done testing yet, but Doug and I are very confident that the new GTX turbo is going to be an amazing option for the platform.



I hope this information helps a little, and please let me know if you have any questions or need any data to back up any of my claims.

P.S. I just sold my 370z Nismo with a GTM TT kit on it!! LOVE your car.

~Cicio

 

As Matt said the 76 would be the way to go for sure! The 71 really isn't suited for a Subaru.

~Cicio

 

Thanks Cicio! I really wanted to go to the 76R... I saw a few comparison dynos overlayed and it showed the 71 coming onto boost by about 500rpm sooner and a broader powerband... this was a comparison of just rotating and replacing the turbo. I am really excited to see what the GTX series can do... I will have to give you guys a call sometime this week or next.

 

Cicio what are your thoughts on Borg Warner's new EFR line...

specifically something along the lines of the EFR-7670 model...

 

Honestly we have not tested them. The Garrett turbos have been so tried and true for us that we are pushing pretty hard into the new GTX line.

Your welcome to call me or swing up to the shop anytime. I am glad to help.

 

On paper they look Phenomenal but we all know how things always don't translate into the real world. I think they are too new to judge either way. The internal BPV, Boost controller, wastegates look very interesting. I can't wait to see one on a Subaru.

The GTX series is a no brainer. We know the GT series makes great power so adding in the billet wheel makes it that much better. I think FP has already proven that with the HTA series of GT turbos.

So the real question is do you want to be innovative and try something new or use something mainstream that the Subaru next to you might have as well.