Preparing to Swap in a Six Speed...

Hello all!

Okay... Just made a rather large plunge today and agreed to purchase a 2005 model six speed transmission for my 02 WRX wagon that is still running the stock 2.0, stock brakes, and 5X100 hubs.

So here's the deal... I'm doing this on a bit of a budget. I have about two grand in the transmission itself, and am going to tryto get this done for three grand or less. To do that, I plan to keep my 5X100 hub set up and my stock brakes (for the time being), along with the struts, knuckles, etc. that are currently on the car and meant to run on a stock 02 WRX.

If figure that what I have is more than adequate for my long term power and usage goals (which all boils down to a fun daily driver), and if I decide I want bigger brakes down the road, I could search out a 5X100 setup of some sort.

Anyway, the main purpose behind this post is to double check my understanding of what I need to get this done. Right now, my understanding is that I need to search for the following items before I start the installation process:

-Stubs that will allow me to run my 02 style front axles (these are currently being switched into the trans)

- 3.9 ring and pinion from the R160 rear end that came in manual trans 2.2 liter NA cars from back in the day. I've read that it would be best to install these inside of my existing differential to allow room for a limited slip.

- driveshaft from an automatic trans WRX

- Sti shift lever assembly (I'm actually not sure if what I've purchased has that, I guess I better find out, eh? )

- 6 speed trans fork

- 6 speed tranny mounts

- A DCCD controller (my understanding is that I could run it without one, but it is something I want to pick up down the road)

- A clutch disk and pressure plate appropriate for the 6 speed is highly recommended, although I could technically get away with the five speed pieces (although possible, I don't plan to try that).


Okay... I know there are some locals who are very knowledgeable in regard to this topic. Does it sound like I have the right idea? Am I leaving any important parts out or including anything that I shouldn't?

I know there are guys out there who might look at my plans and say that I'm half assing it and should be going with the 5X114 conversion, STi struts, Brembos, and the whole nine yards, but as stated earlier, I just really don't see much point in spending money on all that when all I'm really looking for is a fun street car (no drag... no track day use) with maybe 350whp when my motor finally goes and I start looking into an upgraded 2.5 liter build.

Regardless, any opinions or advice are appreciated.

-

 

If it was for a legacy I could help but dont know much about the WRX swap.

I did my swap for way under $3k, which included rear axles, driveshaft, clutch, FW, PP, NEW SUBARU rear axles, etc, but I got my 6-speed at a steal. Just prepare yourself for the time. Even though it can be done over a weekend, there will always be something you are missing and would have to wait until Monday to get the part.

 

the stuff you're not getting you can go aftermarket for and save a little money. Spyder makes a DCCD controller, that's what a few people I've known have used. You can also stay 5x100 and just use a DBA brake kit so you only have to buy the brembos and not the entire assembly. Suspension's up to you...just remember, going fast in a straight line isn't as fun, make sure you beef up the other components or shit could get dangerous.

The only thing popping out to me (granted, I've never had to do this) is the rear diff option. Why not just buy a new rear diff that matches the center diff for that MY tranny? I'm not sure hwat the ratios are, but I would think the extra couple bucks for a new rear diff would be easier and more reliable than trying to piece one together

 

you don't need 6MT tranny mounts. everything else looks ok

edit: good luck finding a R&P for a reasonable amount of money. people treat those like gold nowadays

 

Being that there is not a WTT thread for said transmission maybe what you really should have done is make one for him so people would be aware that he wanted to swap. Besides that I don't think nicad would have given him a warranty on his 6-spd.

 

Well, crap. Only thing is, there were three major inhibitors to that option:

1. I had no idea he is doing anything along those lines

2. If he is going back to stock, he probably wouldn't want my trans anyway, as the first gear syncro is pretty much toast

3. Even though that would have been a great deal, I could have searched until the stars burned out and would have had a hard time finding a freshly rebuilt trans with a 3 year, 50,000 mile warranty for around two grand... especially locally.

That being said, I've given Andy at Killshot my word I'll follow through on this purchase, so woulda coulda shoulda is really a non issue now.



So I do NOT need new trans mounts? If that's true, great! One less thing to worry about.

As for the rear diff, what are my best options? Should I just search hard prepare to buck up for the proper ring and pinion? Is there an option I'm missing? From what I gather the only other thing I can do is install an STi pumpkin, but that will require the 5X114 conversion in the rear and lead to a whole other mess of doodads and whatchamacallits that I'll have to buy and install.

BTW, I sincerely appreciate everyone's input so far.

 

On my swap, I got a R180 rear diff and 07+ Spec B axles. I would think you could get the R180 rear diff and then 04 Sti rear axles since they use the 5X100 hubs.

 

Have Andy swap the ring and pinion so you can keep your rear axle and hubs.

The pull a part on Bufford has lots of cars with the rear diff you need.

You should still be under 3k if you go that route.

 

rear sti axles won't work with his rear hubs afaik. hence the need to keep an R160 rear end

 

Really, thanks again for all of the help, guys. I know I've written that already, but I really mean it.

I'm thinking that will in fact be the best route. I've read about using the spec B axles with an R180 diff, and that is on my list as plan B if for some reason I can't make Kokopelli's suggestion work.

Two questions, if you don't mind my asking:

Is this the pull a part you are referring to?
4416 Buford Hwy
Norcross, GA 30071
(770) 242-8844

And secondly, the 3.9 ring and pinion can only be found in 2.2 liter manual transmission cars, correct? Are there any other Subaru models I can cannibalize that from?

Sincerely,

Jonathan

 

Yeah. Pull a Part is in Norcross, between South Berkeley and Langford.
I live 5 minutes from it.
It's got a huge sign done on a big pile of gravel. Lol.

 

I honestly have no idea if that will work in a Wrx. I have a Legacy so it fit perfectly since the Spec B uses a R180 rear diff.

 

nissan and datsun used R160s as well, specifically the 510 IIRC

 

didnt or doesnt nissan MAKE all (or most) of the diffs in Japan? like mitsubishi makes a bunch of turbos.

 

yeah. probably one of their subsidiaries. check out the back of your window switches on a subaru, they say nissan on them

edit: hitachi makes the differentials

 

yeah thats what i had heard, with Japan being limited in the capital of land, the few big firms have to make most of the parts and sell them to their competitors

 

Hmmmm... maybe I should be checking out old Datsuns.

I've been on the phone with Andy, and he has really been EXTREMELY helpful in getting the ball on this whole thing rolling.

He has already located a diff with the 3.9 gears, but it will cost me about $250. I've been doing some searching myself as well, and it is really looking like the days of $50 ring and pinion sets for these swaps may be gone. Since he has been running around in circles for me, and since I have absolutely no experience switching out differential internals, I'm going to let him source it and transplant the ring, pinion, and LSD into a WRX diff housing. By the time it's over and done with, I'll have over 500 in the diff alone. Ouch. I know I could search and do it cheaper, but it seems like the mix of saved time, convenience, support of local business, and just plain having an important part done right might make this a good compromise.

My other possible option (if it would indeed work) involving buying an R180 and using Legacy spec B axles would still be more expensive... Hell, just the axles alone would cost about as much as the aforementioned differential rebuild. I also have to keep in mind that I can recoup some of this by selling off the five speed that is currently in the car.

Keeping this under 3,000 might not happen, but I think I can keep it close if I shop carefully for the parts I still lack. I have experience with the other issues that are yet to be addressed, so at least I won't need to farm out the labor there.

something something something money pit something horrible hobby something something

 

yeah and according to Jake Fuji is owned by GM

 

Don't expect more than a couple hundred for this, $500 if you're lucky / patient. You already spilled the beans on the first gear synchro, you may even have a hard time giving it away

 

I bet Andy would work out a deal with you as a core on the old 5-speed.

 

negative, however when GM had the controlling stake in fuji there were interchangeable parts. GM blue carpet for instance is a perfect match for the blue STi carpet

/threadjack

 

GM never had a controlling interest, they had a minority stake in Subaru (subsidary of Fuji) for a while hence the Saabs being rebadged Subarus. The original deal was for Subaru to design and build a van or crossover but GM didn't want a boxer. Subaru wouldn't budge so the deal fell through. These deals happen all the time. Ford underwrote the finance arm of Yamaha in return for the design of the SHO motors and for the design work for Fords aborted Indy engine in the 90's.

 

Yeah... I'm not expecting much for it. After all, it's a five speed box, is the most fragile WRX box offered in the US market, and is pushing 140,000 miles. Every dollar helps, though.

As for admitting to the syncro issue, trust me, I don't care about that. Karma is truly a bitch, and even if I hadn't said anything about it here I would have mentioned it in the classified. I would have no desire to have my name dragged through the mud after someone installed it only to learn that engagement of first gear is a bitch at any speed higher than 2 MPH. (Of course, I'm of the opinion that with these gearboxes if you intend for that syncro to last, first gear really shouldn't be used for anything much other than a dead stop anyway.)

Indeed. I'll be seeing him either tomorrow or Friday, so I may bring that up and see if he would be interested. I wouldn't think replacing that syncro would be a big deal for him, so maybe he could help me a little on my end and make some money for himself in the long run.

 

i'd do my research on the nissan/datsun pumpkins. maybe you can use the ring and pinion. i doubt you can use the whole unit. seems like i read that somewhere.

i had a 510 and a 240z ant the same time. i bought an R200 and a 300z 5 speed for the 240 that i swapped a turbo'd 280 in. i took the r180 and put that in the 510. built the 510 motor a bit and the r180 had a bit taller gearing. back in the day there were a million datsun performance ring and pinon parts you could order from their performance catalog.

even asked one time if you could swap a r200 into a WRX/STI. the short answer is its been tried an most folks give up.

i dont think you can put a r180 in a wrx and keep your hubs unless you go driveshaft shop custom axles at 1000+ and i've heard middling reports about their axles too.

if i upgrade my motor, im gonna need a stouter trans. i like the 5 speed gearing though so if i go that route i'll probably go ppg. the 5 speed weighs 100 lbs less too.

 

this should help

http://kmhafer.datsun510.com/Subaru.htm
http://subarugears.narod.ru/
http://www.gearhack.com/myink/ViewPage.php?file=docs/Subaru Transmission Chart

 

and this should clear the GM debate

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/gm_toyota_saab.html

 

i did a 6 speed swap much like you've outlined. JVX (Justin) had a diff with a 3.90 R&P that WJM (Will) installed.it was a pain in the ass because the c clip didn't stay in the diff on the drivers side. it came out with attached to the axle and we couldn't get that damn C clip back in.

we had to use another r160 diff and that one howled badly. Make sure whoever puts together your diff checks the gear lash carefully.

I also had trouble with the shifter as i was missing the correct t piece that connects the shifter to the trans. that was an entirely different story. bottom line, my shifter looked like it was in fourth gear when it was in neutral.

 

Yeah... that's exactly why I'm having Andy at Killshot switch out the internals for me. I think I could pull it off, but I want to try and avoid those kinds of headaches afterward if possible. He has a good rep, and I feel confident he'll get it right (or at least more right than I probably would on my first try at that kind of thing).

As for progress on the build so far, I officially have the R160 with 3.9 gears in my hands today; I even removed the diff cover and checked the stamping to make absolutely sure it is what I need.

I'm going to drop it off with Andy tomorrow so he can go ahead and start working on it as time allows.

In the meantime, I guess now I need to start looking for an STi flywheel, pressure plate, clutch, and complete shift linkage (that one will be fun to find at a reasonable price :|).

I guess that'll cover about everything but my drive shaft. My brother manages a truck shop in Northeast TN, and they have a guy who modifies driveshafts regularly. I'm thinking about seeing if he can just modify my existing shaft for a reasonable price.

 

when was there a GM dispute?!

i've known this since it happened

 

what exactly is that from TIC? is it just a stock WRX hub with longer studs?

about 6gun. supposed to be a great upgrade for WRX hubs. However its impossible to get in touch with them as far as i know. They do have an order page on their site, but no contact, email, phone or other. supposedly the product is great but the guy who does them is almost impossible to contact. so you order and you wait i guess until they show up. no idea how long that would be.

 

As always, sincere thanks for the advice.

For the moment, though, I'm going to leave the hubs be. The nickle and dime stuff on this is killing me so far. Right now it looks like I'll be lucky if I pull this off for less than $3500, and that's not counting the cost of buying a DCCD controller down the road. Still not a bad deal... especially for a freshly rebuilt transmission swap with warranty, but cheap it ain't.

So far I have or at least have a solid hookup on:

-The trans itself
-The differential
-The shift linkage
-A pretty good deal on a new OEM clutch kit that includes the pressure plate, throwout bearing, and alignment tool.

Still need:
-A good flywheel (anyone have any leads they could give me on my search for this?)
-Driveshaft (I'm still thinking I'll just have mine modified, although I need to look up the specs it should be shortened to).

Getting closer... Within two months I'd like to have this thing going in, which is significantly earlier than I thought possible at first.

 

if you're going for cheap, just get a used one and take it to Ball Engines. They'll check it out to make sure it's not warped and resurface it for you - I think it's only like $20-30 IIRC

 

^^^

That's the plan. Only hard part so far is finding one for sale at a decent price- especially since it seems like a lot of people want to sell them with a clutch set up. I thought about grabbing a used clutch and pressure plate along with a flywheel, but I tend to think "used clutch" has bad idea written all over it... kind of like the idea of getting used brake pads.

 

brake pads are easier, you can better judge the life of them. Check the junk yards, probably your best bet

 

and $1,000 in miscellaneous parts later...

 

Just find an auto driveshaft. I had GTScoobs old auto ds.

What year trans are you getting?

 

IN EFFING DEED. :rofl::crying:

In knew the follow up wouldn't be cheap; I just chose not to think about it or I would have talked myself out of buying it in the first place. Great management strategy, eh?

Now please excuse me while I go back into hiding from my wife.

 

If you are in a rush to buy everything, you will most likely pay a lot of money for the parts. I took my time and bought the parts when I found a good deal on them. I think I might have paid $75 shipped for my 6MT FW. I believe it came off of nasioc. Good Luck!

 

could have been done in a weekend

 

But... but.... I DIDN'T KNOW! IIIIII DIIIIDN'T KNOOOOOOOWWWWWW!


Just out curiosity, have you found a donor for your swap out yet?

 

no, he hasn't

 

^^^

Interesting... If he REALLY wanted to switch for mine and we arrived at a price number that works for both of us, I could do that and then turn around and try to resell the trans and diff combo that that Andy is putting together for me at a price that would allow me to break even.

Then again, although my current route is more expensive, I do like the idea of having that nice, fresh trans.

Just thinking out loud here. Nicad, if you are serious I would be willing to talk to you about it via PM or phone. Just let me know. For now, I'll continue down my current path and just keep searching for potential parts.

Also, keep in mind that the first gear syncro in my trans does grind when moving if you don't double clutch into it.

 

email me. justin @ jdbpartners.com

 

Done. Let me know if you didn't get it.

 

The road to my six speed swap has had its twists and turns and I still haven't arrived at my final destination, BUT....

I think I technically have everything I need either sitting in my basement, or in the shop up at Killshot. I almost swapped out my five speed with Nicad's setup, but since Andy has really gone out of his way to help me with this, my five speed isn't in the greatest shape, and having to resell another six speed would be a hassle, I've stuck it out with the original plan.

Right now I have the following items either in my possession or in the shop waiting:

- 08 STi flywheel (along with a used clutch and pressure plate that I don't think I'll
reinstall)
- 3:90 diff with limited slip
- 6 speed trans (duh.)
- 6 speed trans mount (I could have reused the five speed mount, I think, but I got a good
deal)
- auto driveshaft
- shift linkage
- Sti clutch fork and pin

So... do I appear to be missing anything important? Keep in mind that my R160/3:90 swap means I do NOT have to change out axles.

On a side note (and something that I've mentioned before), I'm thinking that one thing I really ought to do is buy a NEW clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing. I bought the used OEM flywheel, clutch, pressure plate and bearing at a price less than what some people pay for just a used flywheel, and the clutch supposedly has only 18,000 miles on it, but... well, reusing the clutch and pressure plate seems to have bad idea written all over it. Ammiright? If I plan to add power (and possibly even an STi engine) down the road, stepping up to an ACT stage one clutch setup might be a good idea anyway, I suppose.