Looking for opinions here on what is the best option to go with. I've been reading into the 20g's for a few days now and the big names keep coming up...deadbolt, forced performance and blouch. There are also different options to consider, such as coatings, 7cm vs 8cm, ported, welded flap for EWG, etc. So, I'm opening the door here...I know I'm not the only one who wants to safely (using the term loosely) be in the 350-400 whp range, so what would you go w/? Also, there are some other options that are close, such as the dominator series (1, 2, 2.5...nothing larger) and the gt52. They all have similar flow rates (44 lb/min +/- 5). Just so everybody knows, I have an invidia catted dp (rest of exhaust is stock) and am already stage 2. Walbro and injectors are in the future, but I want to stay with the stock TM for now. The dd currently sees ~25-30k /year, and has to make trips to savannah / augusta / greenville / hartwell regularly. I'm looking for something that will not destroy the internals, hence no meth or gt30r's (I know w/ a good tune I'm safer...ish...but I'd still rather not go there). I auto-x, plan on tracking (occassionally) and do mountain runs. However, like I said, this is an open discussion...I'm sure I'm not the only one here in this boat :wiggle:
Additionally, this is the setup I had in mind. I know pieces of it may be overkill, but I am (sorta) planning for the future when the possibility of more powa comes scratching (and I drop the STi as the dd). TMIC w/ 7cm TD06 20g (for quicker spools, when compared to FMIC and 8cm) 44mm EWG w/ UP some sort of boost control (opinions?) fuel pump + injectors good tune on 93 (and shell gas, don't want to make SS angry :keke May be missing some stuff here, but I already have the DP and would like to keep the axle back (may up it to a 3" mid, but I need it to stay quiet as it's my business car). If there's something I left off, laugh at me and let me know want....no, need....more....power.... :ddirty:
deadbolt I am not too familiar with anything other than the FP which was on my car for all of 500mi and pulled off for a DB. there is a reason DB turbo's are priced higher, also free rebuilds for life.
^^ completely agree... Jerry is great to deal with. There's also lots of positive response to the Blouch turbos as well. If you're going ewg, you'll have to find a different downpipe. IIRC only the P&L ewg works with a catted dp. For boost control, you can't go wrong with the avc-r. Get some Deatchwerks injectors, and the walbro pump. Also, don't worry about spool, think about boost threshold. If you're going with a stock mount turbo, you'll have to decide if you want a 2.4 or 3" inlet. A 3" inlet means TGV deletes. Then have Doug or SS tune it at Topspeed and be a happy camper.
Exact same setup I want and was about/going to buy, but decided to save $ for a 6 speed first. I found that DB is the best. A lot of people are upset with FP's stuff.
why? and isn't a Green manufactured (or assembled, or backed, or whatever) by FP? I don't know much about the positives / negatives, but others are not on FP's side. I'll be joining you and matt this weekend and we can discuss this more, but I have some questions about fitment of the UP...a visual on my car will help. What do you mean by boost threshold? are you talking about how long the turbo can hold the pressure and it's efficiency range? I'm not looking to top the 20ish psi mark, so I don't think I need the uber efficiency that some of the bigger boys offer at lower psi levels. I looked at the compressor map for the td06 20g and it looks pretty good, like it should suffice for my wants. The only reason I was wanting faster spool was for auto-x reasons where you only shift from 1-->2 and then it's all gas. Finally, can someone elaborate on TGV deletes? I know it has something to do w/ mixing on the intake said and they are required for emissions (I think), but I didn't think deleting them was really that beneficial / worth it unless you were looking for the 500 hp mark. Done and done! :ddirty: Thanks for all the input...Mike, I think Dana, urself and I are all in the same boat. Who's gonna be the guinea? :rofl:
a green is FP's version of the SZ49 (49lb turbo) The SZ55 is a 55lb version. I know someone that has a 49 that put down some very nice #'s with one.
It really comes down to you deciding what you want to be "best" at: 1) Auto-X = 20G 2) Road Course = 49+lb (Deadbolt SZ49, FP Green, Blouch 2.5, or bigger) Seriously, anything bigger than a 20G is REALLY going to hurt you on an auto-x. But bigger is better on a road-course. If you are even considering trying to be COMPETITIVE on the auto-x, get the 20G and don't look back. Stock turbos are fun on track and a 20G is that much more fun on track. Bigger is better on a road course up to a small hotside 35R... but if you go any bigger than the 20G your auto-x times will get worse. Siegel
I don't really care about my times as I only do it for fun (and to beat Jeb). I really don't even care about my class, I just do it to relieve a little stress on the legal side I care more about driveability and reliability than anything else...and of course, fun. However, fun to me is more in the acceleration and playing at slower speeds as opposed to the strip (or 400). Regardless, a tune will be in order...
If you're not worried about your times for auto-x, then the next decision is how big... If you are certain that you don't want to go FMIC then I would say to stay in the 20G/49 pound range. If you are staying stock TMIC, go 20G, if you are going to upgrade to a brand name big TMIC, go 49 lb. Siegel
Not True. The new Grimmspeed 44MM EWG setup works with catted DP and is cheaper. Also, Gimmick should have their 44MM EWG setup out by now if not very soon. There will be a ton of 44MM EWG setups released this year so the prices on them should be coming down dramtically. Grimmspeed does have great customer service. DB 20G is what I have on my car and it is awesome. It will be going into onei's car very soon. Jerry at DB has always treated me right. I am a sucker for companies that have great customer service.
A 30R with .48ar gets my vote with your stock TMIC or bigger TMIC. It will have 20G spool with more topend and will put you right in the middle of your HP goals. Scott will likely back me here. That's my eventual plan for our 08. No need for a boost controller. The stock ecu can control your boost up to about 22psi. Just get prodrive, perrin, or gm boost control solenoid. FWIW, I did a DB 20G on our LGT when we had it. And I wished everyday that I would have went with a SZ49/Green or 30R. The 20G was nice, but the 2.5L was begging for more up top and the 20G just couldn't give it to her.
will long term reliability suffer? Remember I'm putting quite a few miles (granted, 95% interstate, mostly mild driving...only 'spirited' a few times a month, if that) also, where do i find that? i thought they only came in .63 and .82 (i think those are the numbers)
if you plan on doing 20g or bigger I think tgv deletes are a must. Basically they are secondary butterfly valves in the intake runners that control idle air and help with emissions. Apparently it's a common problem for them to get stuck open or closed which is clearly not a good thing. Actually happened on gregs sti. I can remove them for you as I have done it twice now and am going to do seans in march. But as far as which turbo to go with, if I had an sti and unlimited funds I would probly do a stock location (or perhaps rotated) 30R for power and (moderate) reliability.
If you are doing a 20g sized turbo, I highly recommend that you go with a 55lb/min wheel from Deadbolt since you are going to look for that power anyways once you are tempted of power addiction. Trust me, you will look for power and it will cost you plenty more if you decided later that the turbo you went with was too small. Thus the larger(not physcially but flow rate wise) wheel will have some head room just in case you feel the need. If you can, maybe find a rotated UR 3076 kit (which is a 52lb/min wheel IIRC), slap it on with assorted supporting mods and you should be ready to rock. And to address your reliablitly question, you should be fine if you keep it mild and get a tune our convenient tuning station Topspeed. Maybe install a wideband and a oil pressure gauge to keep an eye on the motor. Honestly if you are doing that much highway miles, the turbo will be chilling while you are doing your miles on the highway so it should be just as reliable as OEM. One thing I would do is at least upgrade the TMIC to a bigger unit and use plenty of heatshield between the turbo and intercooler. Hope my $.02 is helpful. Oh if you do get the SZ55 and find the 55lb/min is too laggy, I will swap with you . Well the Grimmspeed kit is out, it is cheaper but not by much, maybe 20-30 bucks tops but so far only the P&L is the confirmed kit that clears the Turboxs 4" downpipe. I don't forsee the EWG setups to go down in price very much since the price of the Tial gate is holding pretty much steady in the past few years. For example the Grimmspeed upipe is $330, I believe P&L modified uppipe is $350 range, throw in a 44mm @ $350-370, and you come out somewhere close to $700 compared to $720 price of P&L kit at Turninconcepts.com.
Like the last couple of guys have said the 55lb turbos are where its at, that puts you right in the same range as a GT30R and thats a great turbo, if you don't mind just a little extra lag then I would go bigger. If you are going to go as far as doing a EWG upipe and such hit me up I can get you into one of my new rotated kits with a GT30R for a similar price and I think you would be much happier with that. matt Edit I can get you into a rotated kit for less than what you can buy a new turbo, wastegate and upipe for. I forgot those turbos are nearly 2 grand.
I don't want to step on any toes here, but going bigger than a 49lb on a TMIC without meth/water injection is not something I would suggest. JDM-STi - you had a FMIC on the LGT and the long gearing of the 5mt to really enjoy (or not enjoy) the top-end (or lack of it). The 08 has a MUCH bigger scoop and TMIC so I think you can put more turbo on it... BC2003 - TGV Deletes are only required with 3" inlets. They have an EXTREMELY low failure rate as long as they are not damaged... The stock location 30R's don't outperform the SZ55 type stuff. You can use a rotated 30R with a TMIC, but I suggest adding meth for chemical intercooling. Blindfold and Slowwrx - I don't think a 55pounder on a tmic without some kind of chemical intercooling is a good idea. I still stand on staying 49 or less on a tmic that doesn't have additional chemical intercooling. If you can afford it, just get the .63 hotside 35R and FMIC and never look back (Matt's kits should be really nice and affordable) If you're even considering it you can go rotated and FMIC with a 30R and change it up in the future to a 35 at very low additional cost. Siegel
Deadbolt deadbolt deadbolt....FP is a joke. Blouch is good, but I have to support someone who has supported the Subaru community for a VERY long time
I agree.....The prices I have been told on a new 35R are really affordable and you can sell the 30R and recoupe so money back. We should have Slowwrx's kit on my car very soon...right Matt?
I don't know how close Matt is to getting his rotated kits out, but I know that the P&L kits are nicest and most complete kits that I have seen. That is who I was thinking about using when I do an upgrade on the 08.
Hey Matt, can you either post the details of what all will be included in your rotated kits with a guesstimated price or PM me with them when you get a chance. Will you have an 08 fitment as well?
i know a turbo that spools up as quick as 30r, and puts close to 35r power . Go Rotated FTW. I have been restless to get a new turbo for a while, and was pretty much set on a td06 2.4"/8cm2 20g like you. Trust me after going 20g you'll want to go bigger, and sometimes bigger doesn't cost all that much extra. I ended up getting me a kit that will easily satisfy my power goal and still have plenty left if i want more power in future. Go bigger and just run a low boost map for usual driving, and then when you want more power...it's only click of a button away. I'll be posting up my build in 2-3weeks hopefully i'll have some number for you to make up your mind. I agree with other Bigger TMIC+meth or injection or FMIC
Same one I will be using Hope to have results here soon. I like to have results before I talk too much, lol. Talk is all good and well, but having results to back it up is what is important.
Ill shoot you a PM, the 08 fitment is actually what is holding up the show, the legacy GT uses the same downpipe as the 08 so as soon as I get that worked out Ill have a 08 kit. I need to pay Alex my Vendor Fees after I do that today Ill post up a thread.
They are, but there is always new technology that comes out. Just as the old Garrett turbos were said to be hard to improve on, then they came out with the GT series turbos. There are always steps forward. I would hate to think that there would never be anyone improving turbo technology! Look at some of the VNT turbos and such. Different ball bearing designs, different turbine designs, different compressor designs. There are new developments popping up every day. Lots of people are satisfied with what works and are scared of trying anything new. I'm trying something new from an established and VERY reputable turbo manufacturer. I'll let you know how it works out. Who knows, it could be the next GT30 and GT35! :sx:
^^^hehe the op went way larger than a 20 G but to answer your question no you do not but it would not hurt. It IMHO a tad too laggy for a 2.0 and almost right for the 2.5L but definitely a better fit for the 2.5.
Oh you talking at the strip, good thought you were talking street. That would be stupid! anyways from a dig yeah I can see it with just an exhast from a roll never. If he has a 20G in an sti with the other supporting mods he should have walked the bimmer no matter what the situation unless the dude simply cant drive.