I'm asking because I've been struggling with what parts I really want to build. I've got a couple of ideas for parts that I can build that are way nicer than anything else out there. However they are expensive, I mean price wise they will be in line with the most expensive stuff on the market. For instance I was looking into building a 3.5 inch exhaust out of 321 or 304 Stainless if I do it out of thinwall 321 it will be light and expensive, I talking at least as expensive if not more so than the APS stuff. However we are talking about a 10lb stainless exhaust, straight unrestricted flow, I would even venture to guess that there would be almost no gain in running open downpipe. So the question is. Where do you draw the line. Tell me what you think, I'm trying to get all this sorted out before I launch the website.
For me price is first, if it's expensive relative for what it is I won't even consider buying it until it's a second or third hand sell. I prefer a balance of affordability w/performance enhancement. Durability is also very high on my list. Once it's on the car I don't want to mess w/ it and it's there permanently. That being said my car will always be a street car daily driver also, not a dedicated track car. Many of the mods on my car have close to 100k on them.
matt, personally, i look for quality, and it usually ends up with looking for a brand name. my main point of contention is definitely quality, but also reputation. i dont care if you make a good product, if your service/experience is shit, i wont buy from you. also, i feel this may be the wrong board for an inquiry such as this, b/c this board tends to go for the cheaper type products rather than the high dollar high value products... /brett
alex: 347 welds better than 321 b/c 321 doesnt transfer high temp arc as well so it isnt recommended as a welding metal. however, 347 is probably more expensive b/c it is primarily used for plating. also, 321 doesnt polish well, so i wouldnt recommend it for a muffler/tip. also, 321 is well outside the norma operating range of exhausts and that why 304 is more common (peak operating temp of 500 celsius)
I mean 321s peak operating temps are between 900 and 1625F IIRC. 304 is commonly chosen for its versatility and material cost. For those wondering, the reason why I believe Matt's potential 321 setup could weigh so little is because 321 does have a bit of titanium mixed into the metal composition.
321 is strong and light and its available in a thin enough gauge. 304 is strong but heavy...relative to the 321. Super thin wall steel tubing also has a very unique sound to it when used in an exhaust. As far as polished tips go, if people want that I can always make it an option. Coatings will be optional as well. One of the other things I have to consider is do I want it to bolt up to other peoples downpipes, if I do it means using a crappy two bolt flange, the problem with the two bolt flanges is that they have a tendency to leak. I really wanted to use only V-Bands on the exhaust, they just work better. I could include a downpipe but again that's just more added expense. Personally I really like the Cobb downpipe for stock location turbos but a lot of people don't want to pay for it. If I built one it certainly wouldn't be any cheaper. 321 Welds fine if you have a skilled welder using the right rod and technique...I have that guy lined up already so I'm not to worried about that.
I don't buy nice shoes so i can buy nice car parts.... however I'm out of the market for subaru parts...
The problem is that everyone already has an exhaust (not a 3.5" granted, but an aftermarket exhaust). Not to mention you are competing against a plethora of different companies all offering a similar product (and most larger companies can produce things cheaper, esp. if they are building in higher quantity). That being said, I don't know how many people will pay a bunch of money extra for a low production 3.5" over a mass market 2.5 or 3" exhaust that is cheaper. My advice to you is to do what you have already done: develop products that are hard to find or impossible to find. Your air oil separator and your oil cooler/radiator combo are great products especially while your are building your reputation. I don't think you competing with anyone with either products (except people like me that already have a Koyo radiator and would just need an oil cooler). This is why I like the IxizConcept Shifter. It is a local guy who makes a good product that has no real competition in the marketplace. I can't name you another short shifter that has height adjustablility as well as an option to weight the shifter. If I were you, I would focus on getting a strong local support base (like you are doing with WRXAtlanta) and make high quality products you can't find anywhere else. Once you have made a name for yourself is when I would look into things like a 3.5" exhaust. So then what else is there a market for that does not exist right now? To be honest, I am looking for a local guy who does custom light bars or skid plates or differential protectors. Granted most of the AutoX guys won't be interested in adding heavy sheet metal to the underbelly of their car, but I have the itch to take my car off road and currently most of the guys doing that kind of stuff is on the west coast or the midwest for Subarus. Just an idea. Anyway, this is my two cents and I hope it is helpful and I wish you the best of luck.
Ya....cant really compete with this junk that everyone already buys: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/97-0...013QQitemZ230219094751QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-0...015QQitemZ250213394402QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW $225~$350 for a complete turbo back WITH uppipe and gaskets....yeah, its shit but it fits and works. Who's going to pass it up? I've seen a freaking shit ton of WRX's with those exhausts on them.
Automotive industry is always flooded with cheap shit, that's a given. The individuals who refuse to buy for quality or R&D time or customer service and purchase solely on price are hurting the market IMO. As I said before, quality is king. I did say in another thread that the market for exhaust is quite saturated. I think you would be better off making headers, cross-over pipes and an improved UP.
Well, now that the market is flooded with cheap shit, it should help SUBARU sell more cars. After all...what does FHI/SOA want? More units sold.
Good points everyone....Thanks While I will probably still do the exhaust I may just do them on a custome basis, I've already got someone that wants the 3.5 out of 321 stainless. But he is one of the few that need it. The thing is doing them one off isn't that much more expensive. Lets face it I'm not going to sell a lot of 3.5 and 4 inch exhaust.
The problem with building headers is no one...well virtually no one wants to pay for a nice header. Look how many Full-Race Headers you see. As far as I'm concerned its the only header on the market I would own. I've got a guy that can build me headers but they would be atleast that expensive if not more.
I have the cobb catback, I would love to have an intermediate pipe that worked. Cobb's catback fits like utter shit without a cobb or stock downpipe and that's the issue I have right now. My muffler is tweaked to hell and back b/c of the "fitment" between Cobb's intermediate pipe and the downpipe.
Can you build a center console for 02-03s that have more cup holders? I have a feeling the one that pops out of the dash will break at some point and I would be SOL.
I think one thing that hurts your ability to sell expensive parts is the simple fact that you have to look at the % of car value. It is alot easier to justify a $1500 exhaust for a new $100K Porsche than a $20K WRX. Its the same thing with wheels, that why you see a million sets of Rotas but not many Volks on WRXs. As long as your business model is high quality, high margin, low volume products, you will be fine. But you can't be all things to all people. Good luck to you.
quality and engineering is always tops to me (why i usually bought all prodrive stuff) That said... focus your efforts in filling the "spaces" left by the other companies (AOS that actually works, rad/oil cooler, things that improve deficiencies in the stock setup but haven't been adequately addressed) if possible offer two lines (premium and economy <- but eco can't mean "crap"). if this is not possible, then focus on quality. figure out who your selling to. the street modder? the occasional tracker? the hardcore trackwhore/competition group? this will help define your manufacturing price point. after you get a running niche on the really useful stuff that most companies don't make, then play in the saturated market (i.e. exhausts and such) just my .02
Well, I've been on the phone all day and it looks like the exhaust will probably become a reality...the good news is that its not going to be anywhere near as expensive as I thought. The other good news is that a header is also in the works, its going to take a lot of testing before its done, but it looks like I should be able to keep it fairly affordable. Matt
For the auto-xer, some may be interested in a larger/lighter-than-Whiteline front sway bar that doesn't break endlinks like the Strano bar did.
If you can make a good header that is around $500-600 that won't crack at the weld and will hold in heat I think you would have a huge influx of buyers. I know Doug has tried several headers and nothing is impressing him much.
I would be more inclined to do a full turbo kit from Header to downpipe than I would be to just do a header. There are to many limitations when you have to mate with other peoples crappy upipes. Matt
The one he has is one of the older ones I think. DC sport got bought out by another company and from what SS told me the quality has went south a bit on it now.
A full turbo kit for rotated mounts would rock but I bet it'll be expensive. I'd love to have better parts but I just can't swing it.