2013 STI Rotated Turbo Project

I was thinking more someone coming over and helping me out at the house during install, not sure he would be up for that.

Already dropping enough $ on parts alone I need to save what I can as far as labor. Being that there are so many big builds that ran the aeromotive kit I didn't think it would be hard finding someone.

 

Before you give up and sell the car, maybe just do what would have been the easieat solution for your orginal ring failure to begin with, forged pistons in a stock motor and enjoy the car as is? I have a feeling this car will always be a headache with such high goals.

 

IAG has a used pair of those rails for $120, if you are making your own lines.

 

Justin - I was going to get the kit because of the FPR, the gauge and all the fittings. That crap add's up so much.

Dana - LOL. I have sold almost all my stock stuff, that possibility got thrown out long ago when I was enticed into buying a turbo kit that ended up not even fitting. Plus this is the ultimate version of the car I wanted to end up with anyway, rotated, FMIC, big turbo, big power.
I help out a ton of guys on a just "stop by and we'll get it done" type of basis, I guess that's what I was asking for, some folks with experience to be willing to come by at some point and help out with some of the fuel stuff. It looks like that might be too much to ask though so I'll just figure it out like I have everything else up to this point.

 

I'm seeing more and more big builds that used the stock rails, stock rail lines and stock FPR and made 490-550whp.
Something else is clearly my issue, i'm not dropping 800+$ on this aeromotive crap until I know for sure.
It might mean taking the intake off after i've put everything back together if I do end up having to get the aeromotive kit, but so be it. Time < $

 

Ah, sorry you arent getting the help from the community you need. Im usually always down to help but hardly ever being in town my little free time is spent with the wife or if i can sneak away, used to try and fix my own car which has been down going on 6 months. Plus, like yourself, im weary about messing with fuel lines.

 

It's all good man i'm grateful for the help I do get (albiet mostly on here via advice) so I don't mean to complain, just get frustrated sometimes.
In NC where I came up and went to high school there were anywhere from 5-10 friends always ready and willing to help with whatever, it's just how we rolled.
I guess not having went to high school here and know a lot of people that well doesn't help.

I think it's either the IAPerformance lines I got with the old style FPR, or the aeromotive pump.
I still have my stock fuel lines with the dampeners and 08+ FPR that I can swap if necessary. The pump is obviously a much bigger pain in the ass but honestly since I bought that pump and had it installed by TSM I will be looking to them for answers if I find out that is the root cause.

 

Hey James, I havent messed with braided lines in years but from what I remember, it really isnt that hard. I believe all you need is some tape, hacksaw, and something to secure the line while cutting. Remember that it is always better to be a little long than a little short.

 

A good pair of long-handled hose cutters will work better than a hack saw, no trash getting into the lines.

Tightly wrap the hose with masking tape to hold the braid together till fitting placement.

A small table vice with the jaws layered with tape to keep from marring the fittings when pressing the hose on.

 

I guess I need to determine if I really need it or not.
Like i said, keep seeing build after build that didn't change much fueling wise and were/are fine.

 

only thing I'd be worried about is whether you have equal fueling to all 1000cc/hr injectors with the stock fuel rails.

 

well i can use per-cyl fueling to tune out minor things, but I was @ 96% IDC @ only 20psi before which indicates a GLOBAL problem with delivery.
Should have been low 70's at most.

that's why I say either FPR on those IAPerformance lines, or the aeromotive 340 and/or basket assembly.

 

anything above 80% should have thrown a big fucking flag that something was wrong with fuel delivery... common sense and mechanical inclination should have stopped you from going any further. Not all problems can be solved with a software patch or a reflash

 

Thanks, I wasn't aware of any of that?

Hindsight is 20/20, I learned a lot of things from this experience, but dwelling on that isn't really helpful I'm trying to move forward not shine a spotlight on my mistakes, as fun as that is.

 

I wouldn't call this a mistake on your part but more on the tuner. Everything should have stopped immediately to investigate what was happening. It is not your responsibility to translate that data if you have contracted someone to handle that for you. Just my .02.

 

not the tuners fault as I have yet to meet one who is clairvoyant, just one of those ugly situations when dealing with a performance application. It explains why R&D so is so damn expensive for teams who develop their own drivetrains. Something none us of can afford to do.

 

I blame no one for things like this.
If "someone" messed up, it's my fault for asking them to do it in the first place. Blame games are meh.

I was with my tuner the entire time we were tuning, not once did I ask what my IDC's were, and not once did I bring up questions around fueling. THAT was certainly my fault regardless of what my tuner was doing or not doing.

After all it's my car not his/her's/theirs.

 

True, first time for everything though.
I guess i'll be the first to break that mold. You don't learn nuthin` that way, and the smart people just get smarter.

Also 8hrs of labor to install fuel rails / lines is 100% out of the question. I can pull and re-install a motor by myself in half that. Getting quotes like that is what keeps me motivated to do things myself.
I don't mind spending money when it's justified, that isn't.

 

What do you consider big power?

 

Justin built vicky's car, it's still running to my knowledge and making over 500whp.
stirhino had kelly help with fabbing stuff, but he did all the wrenching himself with some help and had doug tune it.

i'm sure there are more examples too.

 

IDK what your problem with fueling is. I have no idea why IDC's would be in the 90's.

Vicky just ran a drop in dw65c and id1000s. She got the AP fuel lines which were garbage and leaked like crazy. She knew she didn't need them but just wanted the pretty factor of not having the wonky subaru routing.

I'm gonna point fingers now.
stupid mistake on the fuel system causing it to run lean

or

tune, maybe not fuel maps but ve maps for speed density or something.

or

wiring for speed density sensors... although this should cause it to run rich. As I said vicky spliced the wrong two mafs wires for iat and it read -37 deg. not having this parameter would prevent any tuner from making a safe map.

I'd like to see your piston tops for running so lean, at least I assume thats what you're saying the problem is. You ran out of injector causing lean conditions.

 

clarify the fuel as well, thinking you're going to get a stable 500+ out of an EJ on pump gas is foolish daydreaming and deplete your line of credit once all the cash is gone. Sure it may run... for a while but reliable? Hardly

 

I'd be curious to what the Rockwell hardness would be after running lean with the current pistons. the heat from Det will weaken the alloy and a visual inspection will not help. If it was a bitch to pull the pins out of the pistons, buy a new set.

 

Isn't there someone at SOK with a 500-600 hp 2013 sti?? I think his name may be Justin? I've heard people talk about him at a couple dinners...

 

Yeah he has a build thread on here in the topspeed vendor forum, 632whp
Awesome guy too, he's a hoot on the highway.

Thanks for all the words guys (minus the negative ones regarding reliable power)
I will keep on keepin` on for the moment. I'll provide updates when there are some, but it will be a bit.

For now I am going to put it back together as it was and isolate the problem to either the fuel pump itself or the wiring to it. This will most likely happen on the dyno at topspeed where proper diagnosis is possible and safe. Not that rolling down the highway with a fuel gauge taped to your windshield isn't safe or anything lol

 

So I guess Mike's car wasnt considered big power nor was mine?

 

So that throws out Rob too since he does not have said car

 

:drama::rofl:

 

Just waiting on Matt to pull out the Ninja admin edits to get foot out of mouth.

 

This is just my opinion but I think my power level was the limit of semi reliable builds. That is not saying that more power causes the motor to blow up. It just means that motors will need more regular refreshing to stay reliable and make power. I have a friend that used to run a 6266 and he expected at least once a year. Justin's build will need it as well. I was able to put miles on my power level where 500+ on pump would require much more maintenance. 500 on e85 is a different story as that can be done with smaller turbos.

 

we will see, i've destroyed several other myth's and stereotypes so far.
in fact I should be keeping count lol.

can't wait to ruin that one too when I roll over 80,000 hard miles.
Also I have no idea what power it will make, but I know it's got the potential now with the GSC cams, but i'll take whatever.

 

also i'm not exactly sure I follow your logic on 500 on e85 vs 500 on a bigger turbo with pump gas.
cylinder pressure = force applied to piston = rotating force applied to crankshaft = torque.
you can't get to "500whp" on either setup without X amount of cylinder pressure, and that is what wears out bearings and components.
I would venture to say that a smaller turbo forcing hotter air combined with more timing with e85 to give you that number would be MORE damaging just based loosely on the facts, but I could be wrong i'm not a metallurgist.

 

Not to be an ass or "that guy" but which ones? I would wait until you are making that power for more than a week before you start counting the score. Having Doug tune it this time around is a great idea by the way. If anything like this comes up...he is the mad scientist when it comes to Subaru's...

 

If I have to spell it out for you, it's like explaining a joke, it isn't funny anymore.
But never mind, I know where I stand, that's what matters.

Built it myself, broke it myself, learned by myself. To me that's tough to value. I can now fix 99% of things that would "happen" going down the road with a 10mm, 12mm and 14mm wrench & socket with no help, no book, no drama.
When I bought this car (and had I just threw money at all my problems) I would still be subaru-ignorant and completely dependent on other people who do NOT have my best interests at mind all the time instead of myself.

no thanks, delegate when necessary but not by default.

 

and yes having doug tune it is a multi-faceted decision with all signs pointing to yes.
that is one of those times where delegating trumps going solo.

 

Not sure why there is hostility. You don't have to agree with what I am saying. Different strokes I guess. I knew my Subaru up and down and had a ton of wrench time on it (including now with the Caddy)...but I like to drive my cars. I didn't need to fix mine after it was built. It just ran...and VERY well.

Ask Justin how well his car is running...or just watch the youtube videos...

 

There is no hostility? LOL wow would this be a different conversation if there was!
Let's all crack a good friday beer and re-think all that nonsense.


No it's just that you've made your point, several upon several times now in several threads (and the chatbox) about your personal opinion on someone building their own car versus having NF (if up north) or TSM (if down south) do it for you.
I think we all got it is all i'm saying, I know I did long ago.

While that viewpoint has it's merits, it's not for me. I do things myself, my car will run and it will run well when I quit making mistakes.
READ: MY MISTAKES lol

at least when they are my mistakes I can own them and learn from them. IF (big if) someone else were to do it for me and they make a mistake, hell I may never even learn about it let alone how it was fixed, it's just not how I like to do things.

No one was attacking your wrench time man come on, we all see the countless hours you pour into audio alone

 

Too late...I am already holding a Dale's Pale Ale.

I didn't think you were attacking my wrench time. It was more saying you can still be really hands on, know your car and have people that are experienced with high hp builds do work that is critical. I saw my complete motor go together and I could do it if I had to...luckily...I didn't have to. It just ran.

 

That's an interesting point. If TSM built my motor *theoretically*, would I get to see it go together?
Probably not. Your business relationship with them allowed you I think a different ability in regards to this type of thing that joe schmoe customer like myself would not have.

Pure speculation of course but it's things like that which contribute to my preferring to just do it myself.

 

aaaaaaaaaaanyway getting back on topic now that we have all discussed our feelings lol

eddie replaced 2 aeromotive pumps in 3 months so it's probably something goofed with the pump or the basket or both who knows.

i'll put it all back together in a couple weeks and may 14th after oloa try to get it on the TSM dyno and go from there.
If the pump is the problem, I bought it there and had it installed there so it'll get fixed there. Not sure when i'll have more updates but i'm not dropping 800$ on a fuel system I don't need, and I don't believe that I do.

 

If a tuner was tuning a car and he knows the mods (which he should in order to get injector tuning right) and notices something isn't right without dialing back the car then I have to question it. Don't take this as an attack on the tuner cause it's not. I'm going from experience here. SS tuned my car once and something wasn't right....told me what he suspected and sent me home on a severely detuned (as in no timing and 14 psi boost) until I fixed the issue. Doug did the same once too but luckily I was able to fix my issue right there at the shop while he tuned others in the meantime.

There's a lot of emotion going on here and all for good reason but we must remember to sit back and chill. I read your eBay ad and I can read all the emotion there. Like Robb stated all that emotion deters sales. As I already said you have all reason to get emotional but dial back the hostility a little. It will work out in the end.

 

What myths stereotypes are you destroying? You are many years behind if it's the self built motor. Koko has built I know two engines himself with tons of miles on them. I built mine with the bare minimum budget and it made 500 all day and still ran for many ages. That engine was beat to death by me and it's new owners.

Crystal on Nasioc has built his own stuff on his balcony. Care to explain what myth and stereotype you care to debunk....cause I don't see what hasn't been proven already?

Oh and I know my simple question can be 'trolled' elsewhere :roll eyes:.

 

Please post elsewhere, or at the least leave my threads off your list.

 

It's a simple question. Why can't you answer it? What myth/stereotype are you aiming to debunk?

 

Decided on the full aeromotive kit and will be hard wiring my fuel pump.
also have the ACT XD full face clutch on the way.