2013 STI Rotated Turbo Project

Thanks for saying that Robb cause if I did it would be another 'dude you just hate me' fest. Had to make more than 522 hp. I made 530 on a gt35r on stock WRX heads and STi stock cams on race fuel. E85 is very close to race fuel.

 

Plastic Intake Manifold > STi Metal Intake Manifold

It has been proven over and over.

 

Running motors > blown motors

There are STI cars with more power at higher limits locally and other places.

 

I'm not trying to be an ass...but this build wasn't even at its potential yet given what I have seen out of that ETS kit.

 

Hadn't even begun to scratch the surface.

 

Wasnt commenting on his blown motor or his power output. Was just stating that the plastic IM are superior to the metal ones.

This is his car and his hard earned money. He can do what he chooses to with it. The only thing we can do is give him some advice and he can take it for what it is worth. I dont understand why some of you are coming into his thread and knocking him while he is down.

 

Well, to be fair, (the only way to be btw) TSM used to use Andrew and David for their machine work, and the reason they don't anymore is their business but it is not due to any mistakes. Just wanted it mentioned in amongst all these other facts.

First of all we weren't done tuning, in fact I hadn't even put my manual boost controller in yet.
Second we were using a virtual dyno on non-flat roads. We also paid VERY little attention to what it said, and i don't even think we did the final virtual dyno number before we finished so there was probably more to be had on that as well.

I see where everyone is going with this, and I know you only head that direction because you have my best interests at mind, and I really appreciate that I mean hell what else can someone ask for from a community or friends?

I guess I make/made my decisions based on furthuring the community a bit, helping spread some maybe not as common names, make some new friends, give some other guys a chance to work on a project like this instead of "the usual guys".
Did that play a part in this? Maybe, although I personally do not believe so.

I also firmly believe in my own quote from my other thread:
"NEVER believe that someone can do something you can't LEARN"

While you raise extremely valid points Robb about doug, tsm, and NF all having top notch skills from lots of experience with high horsepower subies, how did they GET that experience? Someone had to give them a chance? I guess that's kinda where i'm coming from.
Will that hurt my wallet? Again, maybe, but life is short ya know? I could have paid Mike when my ringlands busted and had them build the entire car at TSM, but I would have learned absolutely nothing, my ECU would be locked, and I would have no story to tell either LOL

 

Also, you guys are awesome man don't take anything I say the wrong way if it can be helped. I love the input and advice. A wise man NEVER sais no to input or knowledge.

 

oh also the other reason we didn't keep pushing was the stock clutch.

I lol to myself everytime I think of what I put that poor thing through for those 48hrs it was running hahahahaha

 

Keep at it man and achieve your dreams.

May I ask who is NF?

 

How high are you spinning the motor? and how much boost will it ultimately see.

I'd base your head build on that. I am going with mild cams and valve springs as it will be mostly on 93 and won't spin past 8k.

I'd like beehives but they are pricey and put a lot of seat pressure on the stock valves. But under high boost you'll need the higher pressure and possibly stronger valves.

Can you still pin the block or would it distort your cylinders too much to reuse your pistons?

 

I guess we are just different and that is fine too. I would be going out of my freaking mind if I had to drive a beater because my car was down again. I did a lot of the wrench time on my Subaru...A LOT. I actually didn't even really realize how much until I started taking the entire car apart in my garage just to put it all back together. I just left the motor and tuning to those that had a history of producing big power Subaru's that run. This platform has been proven for years and there isn't much more to learn other than they are unreliable and have to be built/tuned correctly to be reliable. The new 2.0L would be the proving grounds/something new.

I am glad you see this as not "trying to beat a man when he is down". Honestly, I want your car running so I can see if I can pull you in a 4,250lbs old man car! I am all about helping companies meet their goals...but I also do not want to be the guinea pig either. They can do that with their own money before they get mine.

Small shop in MN. They are known of their "stage 1" setup which is a custom rotated kit using the 6266. They have produced a lot of high HP Subaru's and they put on a ton of track days in that area.

https://www.facebook.com/NFPerformance?ref=br_tf

 

My Subaru is actually at All Pro right now getting the manifolds swapped to get ready for sale. They are going to go through the car and button up anything else that needs to be as well for me. It's sad...

 

Justin I don't plan to spin very far past 8k, just wanted to take this opportunity with the motor out to do any headwork I MIGHT EVER do. Since the 6266 pushed my powerband to the right by about 1000rpms at the minimum, I just wanted to extend the redline a little bit.

Also the GSC S2's are said to be the best grind for these motors and they don't kill off-boost torque, so all that is in alignment with my goal of a street monster.

It is looking like a huge amount of money though, so i'm not sure. Also no go on pinning the block, it would have to be re-machined. Also it's not cheap, and with my goal of 500whp on 93oct I don't need sleeves or pins honestly. Andrew shared numerous examples with me to back up that assumption.


Robb thanks for the advice man, you've always been one to speak up even when you might get mislabled for it or whatever and that's welcomed.
While you have a point, "I would be going out of my freakin mind driving a beater while my car was down again" and I may be justified in feeling that way, for many reasons I have had to teach myself not to do that. In the past, me "going out of my freakin mind" meant ambulances, damaged lives or property and general felonious mayhem. Obviously nothing positive ever came from said reactions so I try to just take it all in stride.
Also we have our first child (a boy) on the way in July which I KNOW you can relate too, and it has a strange way of telling you to CHILL just by him existing and that fact looming over me for this summer.

I would have left the motor and tuning up to those that know as you said, but just like you have a big issue with giving shops your money so they can beta test on you, I have a huuuuuuuge problem giving shops RIDICULOUS labor rates per hour for work that I KNOW I can do myself (wrenching). Over a hundred dollars an hour for automotive labor is completely, absolutely and fully absurd.
The other well known fact at this time is regarding tuning and encrypting of the data stored on the ECU. Subaru does not do this, when we buy a car from subaru we get the entire car including the ECU and it's data. Sure, they don't exactly include a laptop with a nice pretty web interface for you to manipulate said data, but they don't ENCRYPT it either like ATR Pro does when you choose to utilize that option.
As i've said before, I WILL NOT be locked out of my own ECU for any reason. It's my car, it's my asset / property, and the very thought of this is ludicrous. As a result, I have and will continue to search elsewhere for solutions to that.

I will say this though on that subject. Andrew showed me the bearings and we talked at length about what MIGHT have caused this (Read: we still aren't 100% sure) and there were no flat spots, no indications whatsoever of knock or detonation. In fact with the exception of the one spun rod bearing and subsequent bearing material getting everywhere, the rest of the motor was beautiful, so much so we can re-use all 4 pistons AND rings with just a re-hone. I don't think there was anything wrong with the way my motor was built, or the tune was done.
The fact the car was running GREAT before the bearing spun is proof to that. The fact that all the OTHER bearings were in perfect shape supports that.
Clearly there was an oiling issue to the one rod bearing, and it was likely caused by the blob of gasket sealer which at this point we can't prove, but it seems logical.
That could happen to ANYBODY. Has it? Maybe not, but it could and that's my point.

 

also i really really really really really wanna ride in the CTS-V

 

Also Robb you seem to know Ben pretty good (Xluben) what EXACTLY caused his car to burn to the ground? I was told the power steering lines burned through due to proximity to the downpipe and that caused said fire.
I got some of that gold tape from steven king for my lines because I was worried about this.
Does make me wonder about NF's stage 1 kit and the orientation of their downpipe though.

 

That is what caused it. It is also what happened to Steven's yellow bugeye. Power steering fluid is highly flammable.

 

http://www.rallysportdirect.com/Gates-TCK328-Timing-Belt-Kit

wasn't going to use that belt, I already have a brand new OEM one from last time I didn't use, but would the pulleys and what-not be fine from gates?
I figure at 24k miles might as well change them since i'm doing a new belt and water pump that way everything is even again. OEM pulleys come to 384$ from subarupartswarehouse.com

 

I'd do light valve springs and cams. If you're feeling hairy, a bowl blend and fancy angle valve job.

I have an access port speed density map if you want to play with it.

Finally did you get a 25% discount with subaru parts warehouse? I love those guys, bought from them black friday and again recently. pretty much buy case halves, get a free crank. Speaking of which, I'll have a 3rd that I won't need if you want it for the 25% price I paid for it. I could hold on to it, but I'm ready to retire the wrench for a while.

 

but stock valves?
it will only ever see 93octane

 

and no need for a map, steve tuned the car and did a fantastic job. He also taught me a lot during the process.

 

After 07 they ditched the hollow sodium filled valves. Some say it was a trade off between heat and strength. I guess fancy valves are piece of mind, but seeing what some people put their stock heads through I think they are plenty capable.

I am considering running some HKS valve springs I've had for years or gsc's non beehives.

The Duals are said to have really high pressure which is hard on the valvetrain, but the beehives are progressive so they open easier but still hold tight.

 

oh wow, I never knew that.
man you are chock full of useful information.
My God man I owe you like 40 beers at this point, you really should come up here at some point lol just don't plan on driving home :beer:

so would it be safe to say that GSC S2 cams and some upgraded springs would be suffice? I don't really think I need 1mm oversized and all that for a pump gas street car that won't ever see 30psi or anything crazy like that.

 

I'd run it.

talk to Greg at GSC about it, he's pretty awesome. Easy to reach in the evenings or via email.

I doubt he'd try to up sell you seeing as he makes products for different levels to suit your needs, not the "MUST BE FULLY BUILT" mindset.

There's a big debate on NASIOC about cams. Lobes wiping and what not. Everyone has tried everything. Different break in procedures, new buckets, the works. The concensus seems to be the high ramp rates of GSC and Kelford 26X's cams. High lift/ low duration means a more pointed cam rather than egg shaped for a smoother ramp up. S2's are more egg shaped and have much fewer failures.

I want something more suited to my power levels so I'm thinking about some tomei's, lower lift on them yields the more eggy shape??? over a custom grind GSC or Kelford.

I have a new set of cams he might swap out. I know there is a price difference for DAVCS but I've got $775 in them even with the difference they might come out cheaper than elsewhere. They are S1 intakes and S2 exhaust... He swapped the exhaust out for me already I just shipped them there and paid the $9 for return shipping. Like I said he's awesome.

 

cool, so GSC S2, beehive springs and stock valves.
solid plan.

looks like ben had some head porting done, and used beehives as well with stock valves but kept the stock cams.
I can see that in his dyno graphs though and his clips on youtube.
You can hear the motor straining to push air between 7 and 8k in his 3 clips i watched.

Either way he was pushing 580whp on e85 which I won't be running, so I figure the cam lift will help in me reaching at least 500 on pump which was my goal anyway.

 

Your car should be able to make 500 on pump no problem with a good tune on stock cams.

 

Meh, depends on the dyno I guess.

That lady, Vicky, I've mentioned before made 455 on one dyno and 488 on another.

She's running a similar setup to this.

closed deck 2.5L, built heads w/ kelfords, and a 6262 ETS kit on 25 psi.

The 6266 has the same compressor just a larger turbine, so its pretty similar.

 

yeah I was only 20psi so I should be able to meet her at those #'s easily.

 

My morning motivation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdqfJKgfWH8

Good o'l stirhino's car. This is probably one of my favorite youtubes. Best part is when he accidentally hits the windshield wipers when trying to swerve into the end of the exit merge.
Classic.

 

Oh 2nd favorite part, that "take me home tonight" is BLASTING the entire time.

 

Received oil pan, oil cooler, oil pump and gasket kit today.
starting to come together.
when I get the longblock back from andrew after assembly i'll probably start another (yet a third) thread for that build.
threw him some cash today to get everything rolling on their end.

 

should have bought a damn evo9 LOL

 

should have bought a C6Z06 and bitch about tire wear

 

why start a third thread? It's all the same topic pretty much just more mods.

 

Where that baby gonna ride? CTS-V FTW.

 

went by ball engine today to see andrew and david and give him my gasket kit and oil pump so he could get what he needed from it.

we talked and came to a great conclusion, i'll bring most of the components up there and we'll do the assembly of the motor past longblock together, just so that i can't introduce any ignorance into the process that goes unaccounted for. Plus they have awesome tools

Looking forward to everything coming together.
Probably getting an ACT 6-puck to throw on.
Trying to figure out how to somehow get an ETS equal length exhaust manifold too, but untill I get rid of this turbo kit I don't need i'm kinda stuck on that.

what do stock blue GR sti injectors go for? 545cc I think.

 

Almost nothing. I had mine for sale for a long time and no one even bought them.

 

Have fun with a 6 puck. I couldn't bring myself to buy one and opted for the comp solid disc with the windowed ceramic sections. I don't know how it'll drive but Vicky's 6 puck shuddered like a mo fo and was on or off. I'd splurge on an ACT xt Pressure plate and organic disc to slip it a bit easier.

I saw dark blues go for $100. I might be able to get one of the 2.0L guys out here to buy them for their vf39 swaps.

 

Robb ran a 6 puck, rode with him once or twice and it seemed to be fine, I wasn't driving obviously. It also seems to be pretty common.

Although it will be driven a lot so hmm

 

if you want, message Vicky on nasioc her name is vicky_808 ask her opinion.

 

6 puck on WRX transmission. My plates were smaller than yours. Your plate clutch holds more power than the WRX version did.

 

True, so it's either the HD or XD pressure plate

http://www.rallysportdirect.com/ACT-SB10-HDSS-Heavy-Duty-Performance-Street-Disc-Clutch-Kit

Mike will probably tell me not to get the XD lol

 

I had the HD and was worried it wouldn't hold the torque. Especially with your setup that will ramp up quick and peak it'll be a sudden surge of torque.

Fortunately the ACTs are commonly used and you can check NASIOCs proven power bragging to see what setups similar to yours were running

 

I had the extreme pressure plate with the full street disc. Held everything I could throw at it and was easy to drive daily. Six puck clutch not so much.....sure you get use to it but once you go back to a full face disc you will never want to do a 6 puck again.

 

http://www.rallysportdirect.com/ACT-SB10-XTSS-Xtreme-Duty-Performance-Street-Disc-Clutch-Kit

?

 

Thats the one I am referring to. I think I have seen it for $100 less at places.


like here
http://cygnusperformance.com/cart.php?target=product&product_id=301&category_id=251

 

Yeah, that looks like what I had but Cicio hooked up a good deal on the one I bought. Cheaper than I could get it anywhere else.

 

Mine was #3 that spun. One of the ones fed from the same main.
Interesting design there subaru.

 

Would cross drilling help? Spec C cranks are cross drilled on that journal probably for this reason.

 

There is nothing wrong with Subaru's design. Nothing will or can account for a piece of RTV blocking oil flow 'if' that is truly the culprit.