2013 STI Sedan EJ257 Rebuild Project

I agree and will corrode your entire fuel system.....I ran it for a few weeks in my Subaru and was the 2nd worse mistake I made with the car. Had to replace almost all of my fuel system. There was this slimy thick junk everywhere.

 

Sorry but most of the good tuners in the country disagree with you. A balls out tune on summer blend? You are probably correct. A good tune on mid range blend...the car actuallyruns better than pump. The only real reason not to is if you don't drive the car all of the time because it is not good to leave e85 sitting with the increased moisture content . For daily drivers that is not a concern. I know plenty of cars that run e85 as their only fuel for thousands of miles up north with zero issues.

 

Take in consideration this.....I know there are not many e85 stations around. Also e85 on a DD is pure stupid......gas mileage anyone?

Digi is trying to get this engine built to be somewhat reliable......e85 does not make it reliable in the long run. e85 is just not consistant much less widely available. And the cost of the fuel just isn't practical. If you can afford it then great by all means do it. But it's apparent that the OP is on a budget....else he'd just let the shop do all the work for him.

 

Cost is basically a wash when you factor in how much cheaper e85 is than 93. Availability is the big issue in the south which is why I don't personally run it.

Cars with 55k to 100k with no issues (including 2011's) is a pretty good track record IMO. Almost everyone up north runs it full time.

 

Cheaper? Not sure about Atlanta but it's only .10 cheaper than 87 octane here. At nearly half the mpg I don't consider that a wash.

 

Who puts 87 in a STI?! In comparison to 93.

 

In comparison to 93 that's only .30-.40 a gallon. Not that much cheaper. But lets get back on topic here.


Digi have you made any decision on who's doing your machining? I would highly recommend the 4032 Mahle's.....they are more DD oriented and can be used for a 400hp car just fine. They also don't tend to be as noisy as the harder pistons. Should last well over 100k if DD and driven with reason.

 

:rofl:

agreed Robb, but i don't think that $0.40 will wash it either

 

Digi make sure that whomever is machining the block/spec'ing the bores, or whatever actually have the pistons in hand. Then they label what piston was used for what cylinder. That way if there are some irregularities (which there will be) you know what piston matches what cylinder.

Does that makes sense?

 

Ball Engines.....they are close enough to you (Lilburn) and have done a lot Suabaru motors and have torque plates and everything needed to do work on the EJ25X.

 

Yeah, I got 10 miles to the gallon on E85.

 

No matter what expect some downtime with a build like this and our cars in general. The first mod would be a beater DD to get you around during the down time. I think this is a MUST once any significant modification takes place.

 

keep in mind the other costs associated, as well, especially if you're DD'ing a lot of miles. 500whp requires an entirely different brake setup (or rather, it should) which will wear much, much faster. Same goes for the tire situation (i averaged less than 10k miles per set on AD07's and RE01's).

are the newer model's drivetrains able to support this load? Thinking about axles, diffs, etc. Does anybody know what the safety factor is for these pieces?

 

I'm so overwhelmed

Picked up the rental car today, let the bleeding wound begin...
I can't afford to buy a DD right now, I can only justify that if I get another truck, which I need, and none are affordable enough for me right now especially in this situation. I already have a loan on one vehicle, not trying to pick up another one that doesn't sound very wise.

Thanks everyone for your phenomenal input it has been such a huge blessing let me tell you.

I think my goals will be around 400-450 (in the long term) but again, I can't afford to do a turbo setup right now i'm just "building for the future" in terms of the bottom end, and MAYBE the heads (that gets expensive) simply so I don't have to pull the motor / heads again in the future.

I may just get Brandon / Wes at Allpro to help with machining decisions (they use a good shop IIRC) and putting together the bottom end.
After watching some assembly videos, i'm realizing more and more tools I don't have. Wrist pin install tool? I can definitely see how you need one, but that's yet another thing I don't have.

Also now that the bleeding wound of this rental has begun, the timer is ticking. The sooner I get this done (correctly) the quicker I can seal that bleed.

 

How much is this loaner costing you? Couldnt you just buy some POS for under $1k? I bought a 1992 Caddilac Fleetwood in pretty great condition for like $750. When I was done with it, I turned around and sold it for the same amount.

 

disposable cash is an issue, as well as the fact that I don't want to inherit another problem, and have two problems.
Like I said, if I could find a decent tacoma or something I could totally justify that since I need a truck and would keep it.

I just need to get this done. Probably leaving work early to get started.
I have to go by SOG and get the rest of my parts, the shortblock, and also figure out towing my car to my house.

They won't charge me storage or anything, but they clearly stated that any "dents / dings" received will not be their problem.

who even sais that?...

 

Tacoma is a high dollar truck that doesn't ever decrease it seems. Craigslist junkers are great.

But I completely understand where you are. Leave the heads alone.....they are great for 400-450 hp. Just decide what pistons you want and get them done right. Wrist pin special tool???? Not necessary as I did them with simple tools....unless something changed with them since 2007.

 

i'm sure there are a few specialty tools, but i don't recall anything being too extreme, with the exception of the cam gears. Just make sure you have a nice torque ratchet, and get a good one that's calibrated, not some shitter from harbor freight. There's some pretty good manuals out there that walk you through the head stud process, which is probably the only thing that will get confusing, especially if using ARP studs

edit - if you don't already, go out and spend $200 at harbor freight on a 5gallon compressor and air tool startup kit. You'll recoup the $200 cost in the first day you use it. I reassembled mine without, and now that I have them, I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how I got through it without it

 

It's been a spell since but I don't think you need the cam gear tool if you leave the heads stock.....right?

 

i'm in your boat. I think when i had mine, it was bare heads, so i had to put in all the components, including the gears. However, I'm pretty sure i said screw those (as the tool still didn't help) and just smashed / drilled out the bolts on mine, then started fresh on the new block.

soooooo long ago

 

Yeah my cam gears are removed, have to to get the cams out / heads off apparently. Very compact and interesting design to be honest.

I keep swinging between terrified / overwhelmed, and super excited / this is an adventure. I feel like some teenage raver must feel like after a long night of molly. Can't figure out which emotion to go with lol.

I am going to try and hit up the machine shop you guys recommended if I can get there early enough today after stopping by SOG to pickup the block. Probably not though because i'll need to take it home and split it, finish disassembling, etc so they don't have to charge me for that. Tomorrow at the latest.

Now I just wonder how long they will need with it...

also can I go ahead and order pistons? Is it safe to say i'll be able to use the stock sizing since I won't need to take off any material, just hone? That's been holding me up... I could also get a killer b oil pickup, gasket kit, and a few other things to get that shipping and on the way.

 

if youre splitting the block yourself, make sure you get an impact screwdriver set.

 

Order what the machine shop tells you to order. I think Ball usually has some in stock if not they can get them within a few days. Also, talk to Andrew if you go up there. He typically beat or at least matched prices I could find elsewhere on the interwebs.

 

Just to solicit feedback, what do you guys think of this?

AMS EJ25 Advanced Engine Rebuild Kit
In addition to what the Basic Engine Rebuild Kit Includes, the Advanced kit adds the following. The OEM rods are replaced with the Manley H-Beam forged rods which are an excellent upgrade for those looking to make up to 600whp on their Subaru. ARP Head Studs are included to reduce the likelihood of “lifting” the heads from the shortblock. These 11mm head studs allow for greater clamping force on the heads which allows for greater cylinder pressure.

Includes

* JE Pistons + Upgraded JE Wrist Pins
* Clevite Main and Rod Bearings
* OEM Subaru Engine Gasket Kit
* Manley H-Beam Rods
* ARP 11mm EJ Head Studs

Applications

* 04+ Subaru STI
* 06+ Subaru WRX

$1549.95

http://blog.amsperformance.com/2010...ld-kits-discounted-packages-for-built-motors/

 

You can piece it together for the same if not cheaper plus you are using the parts you want....not something that comes in a kit.

Let me also state this.....you need to settle on a machine shop and use what they recommend. They can get stuff cheaper than you can.

 

i think you can piece it together at a cheaper price.

it's very, VERY daunting the first time you undertake this. I remember almost having a breakdown when i first looked at the scope and realized my ignorance with it (keep in mind, i've reassemble multiple motors over the years, too, but always in a classroom setting w/ someone overlooking).

it's a step by step process. do NOT let yourself get bogged down with the big picture. You know the process, and you know the end result - just take it one step at a time and don't overload your plate with issues.

 

That's what I needed to here.
Just called Ball, no idea who I talked to, but man oh man was he my kinda guy.

I'll be stopping by there tomorrow with my shortblock still put together so they can form an opinion on the next steps. I will keep you guys posted on that.

Does anyone have a tow driver in their family? Know anyone? If not i'm going to have to just pay whatever for SOG's "usual" tow people. If i'm going to pay out the nose, might as well be to someone that is in the community if possible. Getting the car to the house is my next step in that process.

Where is Tigwerks (tigworks, i already forgot which it is) located? Are they a local company or more of a national one?
I wouldn't mind picking their brain on pricing after I find out how much i'm going to throw into the rebuild itself.

After all, I'm going to have an awful lot of 17,000miles new OEM stuff to sell as I start replacing things... including a stock & invidia DP if I end up doing something big now instead of later.

 

He is out of California. https://www.facebook.com/Tigwerks?fref=ts

You either talked to David or his son Andrew. Both are great people and they wont take you for a ride.....Some of the most honest people I have met in the industry. Tell them Eddie with the legacy says hi.

 

Tigwerks is in Texas now

 

Yeah basically a one man operation. He has had problems in the past getting product out but I think he had gotten a lot better recently since I believe this is his full time gig now and not just doing it on the side.

 

Just spent 15mins scrolling through his FB page and instagram page.

:sold::clap:

 

It really isn't necessary anymore especially no with Mahle Pistons, they are by far the most consistent pistons I've ever seen. The bore size is going to be exactly the same across all 4 cylinders.

 

The bore size of the piston yes. But what about the bore in the block itself? Isn't Subaru notorious for being inconsistant on that? Least WJM told me so but I dunno if he was ranting at that time or not. I just dug through my gazillion emails between us to get back up to speed on some things.

 

I took it as you dont need to have the pistons in hand if you are going with mahle since all of them will require a 99.5X bore.

 

Man I can't thank you guys enough, I really can't.
I owe everyone on this thread at least 1 beer.

 

Give mine to slowwrx. LOL

 

If you are just going to drop some pistons in then the bore size is the bore size.

If you are going 010 over and using 99.75 then the block has to be bored and honed. But you don't need to mark the pistons for each cylinder, they are all close enough now that is doesn't matter.

 

if you have a car with tow hitch uhaul trailers are $49 a day.

 

If your car is up at SOG I think a tow to your house wont be much. I mean it is all of like 7-10 miles, right?

 

Home depot rent a hoss of a pick up for $20 for 70-90 min

rent the uhaul first, then pick it up, get your car, and head home.

Worked well for us picking up a table from costco.

 

Is mahle making the slightly oversized stock pistons? like 99.55?

I'd have run those to get the PWC correct and keep as much cyl liner as possible.

I am running 100mm CP d25 specific pistons, but am fine since I don't plan on running enough boost or power to crack a liner.

If I did I'd go with an MPS longrod

 

No you have to get a custom piston made.

 

where can one get pistons made? planning on boosting an h6 soon will need custom pistons

 

Yeah it's like 7 miles I think, shouldn't be too bad.
I really just need to make sure that it's a flatbed.

in other news, shortblock wouldn't fit in the trunk of the rental nissan versa, so it went in the backseat complete with seatbelt :naughty::rofl:

 

all the big manufacturers make them.

I think you can use a EJ22T piston in your engine.

 

Pretty much piston manufacturers have a custom piston program.

 

This

 

Supposedly the combustion chambers are different, I will probably be consulting you when the time comes though

 

Yeah just let me know I can do the Math on it.