Well. I can say this much. People give our government way too much credit. As in, they're no where near as scary and powerful as people seem to think they are. Just look at the recent failures in government agencies and you can see that it's not this all-knowing, end-all or limitless thing. Just my .02
The #s I posted were from a poll specifically talking about people making 50k+. I thought it was rather sad that for somebody with that level of income an additional $50-60/month would be 'financial hardship'. FWIW, the median household income is around $45k for 2005.
ya the remerging of the monopolies is really pissing me off lots of consumers shouldn't have to point that shit out for the gobment to take action. One thing they could actually do a damn thing about... I heard about Brazil, but the fact we have so many Americans pushing this and how entirely possible it is! I'm pissed http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?g=e9beceec-f18c-4265-9fee-c9e7b4dfbfaa&f=00&fg=copy
there are nearly 39% to 48% american people not in polls, who are making 30k-40k not even close to 50k... they are family of 4 or they are supported by gov't either way, me i dont make close to 50k and i'm sure some here dont either.. these numbers as of i think are for corp workers not reg workers.. what u guys think.. ?
well im on a salary but I have fellow employees that are hourly that make more than me because of being able to take advantage of overtime..hell i wish i was hourly..i would probably make about $10K more a year in overtime
people misdirect their fear and loathing in this sense. it is not the puppets, but the puppet masters to watch. policies get passed because those with the interest and the money to get the policy makers' undivided attention want them passed in order to secure and grow their own interests. policy makers only bite the hand that feeds when their own power is at stake. then anyone/everyone is fair game-regardless of money. because the policy makers know that there will always be another interest, another lobby, another all you can eat port buffet just down the road a piece... as long as they can maintain their office standing. kanchou mentioned in another post that left and right sides were insulting our intelligence on a given issue. no kanchou, they are playing to our average level of intelligence as a society on every issue. focus group tested and middleamerica-approved. and that's what pisses me off. i expect more from us.
phew... okay... This presumption only works if people continue to think of 'oil companies' as one big monster. The fact of the matter is there are seperate 'oil companies' at different places in the oil production. Explorers, Drillers, Refiners, Transportation/logistics, by-products, recycling, shipping, investing, marketing. Quik Trip is a gasoline marketer, they have nothing to do with any of the other steps. Kenan and Florida Rock transit handle(d) their transportation, but had nothing to with any other step. Only 4 oil companies really have capacity to operate in ALL of those parts of oil production. There are many , many other companies providing competition at all levels of the production in other counties. In some cases like Citgo, its not really a company, but a foreign government. What's this got to do with anything? All petroleum production starts with a barrell of crude. Who do you think sets the price of a barrell? The government/companies that drill it & sell it. If there are more than 30 drilling companies both private & foreign government owned, and only 4 of them actually do major business in addition to drilling, then why do people somehow mysteriously think there is some way a gasoline marketing company has control over their own cost for a barrell of crude by the time it gets to them? Intel doesn't set the price of silicon. Goodyear doesn't set the market cost of unprocessed rubber. I still don't understand how people make this step with oil & gasoline companies. So let me understand your position. You're willing to burn all evil 'oil companies'(no matter what part of the business they are in) because the average profit on a gallon of gas is a whopping $0.10, but the government makes almost 5 times more than that per gallon and does nothing for that money (meaning help in petroleum production) and that goes unchecked to you? You'll pardon me, fellow wrx-er, if that anger of yours doesn't seem a bit hollow and misplaced... :-/ Especially since all taxes are paid by consumers in the end, not by companies. I dont know if the quick math there is accurate or not, but lets say it is. If their costs take a $100.7 bil revenue figure down to $9.92 bil on the profit/net income, then that means the Profit Margin is only about 9.9% This means that for every dollar they spend, they only earn about a dime. For every $100 they spend, they earn about $10. As Moose stated, each one of those companies he listed make more money per dollar, sometimes much more, than does the average oil marketer. Why not cry foul on them? Its all wealth hating. Your contention that you are being forced to buy gas and Windows is kind of a cop out. You don't have to buy gas, you chose to live away from public transit or walking distance, and own a car that takes gas to run. Nobody puts a gun to your head to buy Windows, you chose it as the platform with which you run your software rather than use Linux and/or Wine, probably because of the convenience. Your time is worth the $150 for the copy of Windows, but I don't buy anyone making you do anything. This choice has nothing to do with monopolistic business practices they're guilty of either, because that has more to do with developers in truth than it does Windows. Who pays this tax in the first place? The oil company? Uh, no, think again. If I'm a Tuner Company, and I buy turbos for $400, then sell them for $500, my company nets $100 income. If all of a sudden, a politician passes some type of Turbo Tax at %20, just where do you think that %20 is going to come from? Tuner Company's profits? Of course not, the Tuner Company passes the cost onto the consumer by raising the final sale price. $620 is what they would sell it in order to keep making the same net-income. No company pays taxes, consumers pay all taxes. Why do you say 'no reason' and leave out the biggest reason of all? High consumption is the single biggest reason for high gas prices period. Even though gas prices have gone up $2.00 a gal over the last 8 years, more people are buying more gas in America now than ever before. These rising gas prices must not be bothering people too much, and all projection say consumption is going to continue to rise. And yes, ;p summer is a high consumption season. Not to mention China and India have been increasing their gas consumption massively over the same 8 years. I've not heard that, but maybe it was supposed to mean 'household' income and not 'individual' income... that would make more sense. but then you'd be in a higher tax bracket and come out making less anyways, i bet. ;p ..phew!
I don't know if you were being facetious or not (suspect you were), but that's not how tax brackets work. If you have a $0-10000 bracket at 0%, $10001-20000 at 10% and $20001+ at 20%, for instance... And you make 19k. You pay 0 tax on the first 10k, and 10% on the next 9k for a total of $900. Net income is $18100. If you get boosted to a 21k income, you pay 0% on the first 10k, 10% on the next 10k, and 20% on the last $1k for a total of $1100. Net income is $19900. Now where you can feel the pain is if you get some overtime in your check and the company decides to withhold as if you were making that kind of money in every check. You might actually end up with less at that point, but you'll get it back when the annual taxes are calculated and filed.
omg, where to even start with that mega-post. Eh, I'm not. But for future reference in quote #2 the --> <-- is a tongue sticking out. It means the preceding statement was joking/taunting. But truthfully I'd rather have extra profits (please don't start on the "profit margin" again) going to improve roads/transportation/alt. fuel research than to the big evil oil companies. They're a shady bunch of characters. But hey, if I had bookoo oil company stock I'd be rooting them on too. Like certain Texans are no doubt doing...
I'll disregard the Bush = evil between-the-lines comment, and just say that if you have a 401k or IRA or other investment with mutual funds, chances are you DO have big evil oil company stock.
Yeah, I was making a crass observation on the incomprehension of the progressive tax system, and how people fear/hate wealth. ;p yeah, i got it, thats why I dropped one myself. So the length of my post somehow invalidated my points!? Aaight... So say we do 'take away' the profits now. Guess what. Gas prices will go up to make the difference, and consumers will pay for higher gas prices anyways. Your point of view seems to keep thinking that you have to tax that evil corporation and punish them for making money. The primary job of a company is to make money. If the cost of business goes up, are you seriously expecting the business to not raise prices just because you, or anyone, doesn't want them to?
!? Where have I said tax or punish big oil for making money? (I haven't) I think my words have consistently been along the lines of "investigate wrong doing" and "I'd rather the profits went elsewhere". A senate investigation into price fixing would make me feel better. If it's even possible they could pick a politician who isn't in big oil's pockets. For your pleasure, a recap of my posts (no spin zone). I can mega post too!
hehe, but ya didn't address any point I raised. ;p even the very first 2: You quoted a reference that talked about 'excess profit,' which is a term I say i charged with negativity to persuade the reader that there's such a thing as too much profit, or too much money. So I asked you... 1: Your opinion is that the FTC gets to decide how much money a company gets to make? Because it seems to me you've already passed judgement that because oil companies are making record profits, then they must be guilty... (i hear you on the refineries not being built, but thats not collusion so much as it is reflecting of the 'not in my backyard' syndrome...) and the second part was that you seemed awfully upset that oil companies were making about 8~10 cents a gallon, but were not so bothered by the government making as much as 50 cents a gallon, and having done it for a long time... so the second one was 2: if you're concerned about the idea of 'excess profit', dont you think the government is making 'excess profit' considering they did absolutely nothing in order to get that income? They didn't ship it, refine it, market it, anything, but they get to profit more than 4 times as much as the oil company?
Hard answers here. 1) no, and nope. If I had decided they were guilty I wouldn't say I wanted an investigation. 2) nope. The govt didn't "earn" 1/2 may paycheck either. But someone's got to pay for these lovely atlanta roads and the war on "don't pay attention to how bad our administration is doing". And yes, but it's not profit, it's income. The govt doesn't make profit at all. They spend every damn dime they get plus a few they borrow. PS. If you're going to # your questions so nicely, please keep it to 1 question per #. Kinda defeats the point to have so many questions in a #. 8P
Oh did i 2-part? Sowwy. wow... you have an interesting perspective... Can't say I understand it all that well... :headscratch: Well, at any rate, I disagree with your thinking that the government tax revenue isnt profit. The main reason is that the govt doesn't actually expend any money to get money(comparably speaking). That means all tax revenue is essentially profit when you have no operating cost. The government doesn't pay $100 to anyone in order to get $200 of tax revenue... it just takes the $200 period... Yes, the government pays for military or whatever, but those do not bring in any more additional tax revenue, so that can't be considered a business cost the same way Subaru considers buying aluminum a cost. ...tho that does raise an innnnteresting idea in the recess of my melon. What if it did? What if in addition to war, we rented out the military to private civillians & businesses to do regular work additionally(airline, private security, construction, education, etc)? Not only are enlisted good at what they do (like army corp of eng), they could charge money and collect revenue from a source other than a tax payer... hmmm...
Come join our comrades, for good vodka and cheap gas for your sports cars. What? You want to pay for their profits!? Pah! http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/4546/frames.html