so i called up all pro subaru and asked them how much it would be to do studs and to press in some closed deck inserts. they said theyve never done closed deck inserts but thought $3000 to $3500 to stud and pin the block:eek3:. that sounds incredibly high when it only cost 500 to valve seat, valve, spring and machine the heads on a 72 ford ranger that i'm building. my question is how much hp and boost can i put through the ej257 before i have to even worry about cracking or warping a cylinder if im working with forged pistons and rods and race bearings and rings? also i would like to get some information on reliable machinists that anyone has used for this type of work. along with cost you incurred.
If your power goals are still in the 400 to 450 range you probably don't need to go with a pinned block. That would mostly be a peace of mind thing.
Me and STI rhino just bought closed deck cases from Outfront, MPS built mine, Ball Engine built his. They're cheap, but not cheap. Its like $800, its $800 you don't have to spend but its not $3000. I would not spend less than $3500 for a built shortblock. Some corner, some where is being cut if they can swing it for less than that. Granted that all depends on whats being reused. But reusing too much and you are setting yourself up for failure. Cases on subies are disposable... unless you bought them new and took precautions (pinned the mains and closed the deck) The violent nature specifically of the 2.5's ovals mains and sideloads cylinders... ovaling them too. To fix it requires machining, taking too much off creates problems. Your goals are on the cusp. I am building a guys car with a TiC beefy badger bc he toyed with similar goals. That motor is bang for buck. all new parts, all balanced and blue printed, and all capable of that power. it also gets fancy with 2mm longer rods which lighten the pistons and decrease side loading by a laughable amount (slightly less crank angle) If you motor is in good shape to rebuild it may be the cheapest bet, but a motor with drop in pistons doesn't give me the warm fuzzies because bearing specs are mystery and PWC can be measured but not changed. If I spend that kind of money its worth it for me to know those are consistant and within a safe range.
my motor has 26000 miles on it and its all hwy and around town miles. so i think i could just send the block out to have the inserts put in. i dont feel like spending 3000 on a new block unless mine was like a 100000-120000 mile engine that had been launched over and over. and at that point i wouldnt even buy the car because your probably on the very last legs of the trans. is there anywhere in ga that does closed block inserts? if so how much should it cost to have it done?
Closed decks are few a far between because most places have had to cnc the inserts. Outfront is the most well known S&R in Florida has one... its weird looking and I think P&L in one of the states that start with "I" has one... Illinois maybe. I think ball will pin the block Related to your other thread. You need to do something with the block to safely make 450 hp. Some folks know Subaru's are grenades, so they make power and plan for failure. I played it safe and over built mine because you never know how bad the failure will be, what it will destroy, and when it will happen... see guys who have had to buy/ borrow beaters, guys who need turbo rebuilds after 3000 mi, etc
mixed info now, whos right? idk.............. sorry sutton, im starting to feel like theirs no right way of doin it. so why not just spend the thousands of dollars to close the block
lol well thats worth something right? at this point, its kind of like, do i just do it knowing that ill probably catch the power bug later, or do i want to keep the car a good daily driver thats fast but managable and forget about it. i havnt figured out how much it costs to close and i have a patience issue anyway, it hurts my head to know ill have to send it off for weeks to california especially when i know itll only take me a solid weekend to do the rest of the build at my shop.
If you see yourself catching the power bug...then that is a different issue...at least when you get above the 500whp mark. I am the king of "I'll just take it slow and not go overboard this time" only to find myself going way overboard very quickly. I take that into consideration when I make my decisions. Not everyone is like that though. If you really just want a fun 450whp car...you don't need to look at pinning the block and other builds like that.
well, just called outback, 875 to close, but it could take 5 weeks ugh. f*** that, fun street car it is
My last build was disgustingly expensive (NEVER AGAIN) I went closed deck because of the way I was planning on making 450, I destroked it to a 2.34L was going to rev it crazy high and also bumped the compression to do so. I was covering my ass in order to make 450ish safely and beat the piss out of it without worry. I knew it was overbuilt, that why I bought different head studs and planned for a 35psi map. 450 sucks on a subaru, 2+2=4, but there is no equation to get subaru + x=450 Dom 1.5 falls short, after that it is recommended you go rotated. Most go 35R framed or 6262 on a precision and by pass 450hp for more. Some people have gotten bored, hence why I was on a rotated gtx3076, I wanted to try a 5858 too, but never got there and couldn't afford to be the guinea pig. Buy a dom 1.5, injectors, and an intercooler. Try it on a stock block, it can be detuned and still fun. Prepare for a build in case of failure. and when that day comes rebuild her and know that you can crank the boost up some more and have a whole new driving experience. Have you felt 450 in a subaru? Its a nice number... I like it, but most people have never experienced 400 to have a remotely reasonable expectation of what their car will be like. That Dom is a magical turbo, thats why there is so much evidence backing it. My biggest problem with my stock sti turbo was the boost taper at redline, I wanted a car that could pull the whole power band, damn near any aftermarket turbo will hold boost to redline and that will dramatically change your driving experience. I hate to contradict my self and say start rotated, but you need a baseline for your build goals and I think the above plan is a good starting point. See if you can ride in one of the apeshit builds on here, I hated the lady's I built, gears were so short and it was in and out of the power band at those levels. Digi.... something specifically wanted that feel though, the lag, wait, and slam you back into the seat, hit redline, its over, shift gears and do it again. That to me is unwieldly for a car you want to drive at its limits.
twin-scroll is ideal for a Subaru especially being that the EJ has a single-plane crank. Not cheap and not well supported therefore not as popular.
I don't agree on EJ's since the turbo is 50000000 ft from the ports. Might do something on the gt40's but the stock vf37 are funny... I know they are 2.0L though.
Ryan (used to work at Allpro) had a pinned block and he was making around that if I'm remembering correctly. At any rate now I feel bad having mention closing the deck or pinning, it was purely a response to him talking about sleeves.