Meth inj tuning questions..chime in Scott, Doug, slowwrx

Pump Failure, Clogged Nozzle, Bad Meth Mix, Electronics Failure.

There aren't enough fail safes in the factory ecu to protect your engine if you do have a failure. These engines are extremely AFR sensitive. Even if you use the meth system fail safes many times they don't react fast enough to save the engine.

 

Meth seems to have been a fad that died out. When I first joined almost everyone was on meth. Now you never hear about it anywhere

 

You can say the same thing about fuel injectors, bad tank of gas, fuel pump failure, or fuel wash.

Let's not live in fear of what might happen.

 

LOL, I mean this in the most respectful way possible.

You asked the question, you read the thread. You saw the answers from myself and others that have already been there and done that.

Like I said no one that works at a shop runs it anymore because we all know what happens, eventually it causes a failure.

If you want to ignore everyone and do it anyway then by all means do it, but if you were going to do it anyway then why bother asking the question.

Best of luck
Matt

 

The only thing I asked was the risks you mentioned.... You stated that it might fail... poor reasoning. And stating that noone else is using it is poor reasoning as well.

Actual examples with their conditions surrounding failure would give better reasoning.

That's all I'm asking.

 

No what I said was others have been there and done that.

Meth was a fad that has long since passed. Its to dangerous on a Subaru, they are to sensitive to knock and detonation.

Its not that it might fail, its that it will fail.

If you use meth on a subaru and you make big power you will at some point have a failure.


Why run meth do you really need the extra power that bad.

How much power do you want to make?

 

Is it really a fad, or has E85 taken over?
Look at the number of E85 users 4/5 years ago versus now. Look at the users of meth/water 4/5 years ago compared to now.

 

Lots of people are using E85 enough that it has hurt the sales of Race Gas. GSC our cam supplier has actually changed their cam profile to better suit E85.

While I was at the last shop I can think of about 10 cars in a year that came in with Meth injection.

 

I think you missed my point....
Race gas= $$$$$ so 4/5 years ago you seen people using meth as a substitute.
E85= reasonible cost and alot more commonplace today and like you said, has somewhat replaced racegas and as a result, also replaced the majority of meth users.

Because of this trend, you unfoundedly claim that meth is a fad and people have ceased using it because of its high failure rate....
BTW: the question of "when something is gonna fail" vs "if something is gonna fail," can be asked of ANY mechanical device- fuel pump and injectors, or meth pump and nozzle...

 

You guys are right....use it

 

You know, when I read your signature, I picture a 3rd grader...
i fully comprehend it (your sig) now: rather than offer advice and back up your statements with well founded data and explanations, you decide its better to not help anybody and offer a comment like that, exactly like a 3rd grader...

I can tell you have vast experience/knowledge. Why not be more specific and particular when sharing it and actually benefit the community? This is all MattACK asked...

 

meth is like that weird cousin that nobody really likes to talk about around here.

 

Meth system failure? Or regular fuel system failure?









This is what can happen to a piston in an EJ20 when an injector fails and 1) there's no wideband on board for the opperator to observe or 2) If there is a wideband, its warning is too late by the time damage is done....
This was on an otherwise healthy motor, stg2 with ~100k miles and well maintained.

 

What exactly do you want me to explain, do I need to draw you a diagram of why meth kits fail.

You can't compare a OE fuel injector that probably has a failure rate of 1 in 30,000 to a meth nozzle that was originally designed to spray water on plants. You sure can't compare a fuel pump that was designed to pump corrosive fuel to a meth pump that was adapted to run meth.

Tell me what exactly do you want to know?

 

We're getting warmer....
Perhaps some pictures comparing meth system components to the devices you mentioned or articles, data something, etc...

And I have been looking at the AEM kit for awhile and heavily researching it. Is it not a system designed from the ground up tailored specifically for the automotive market? Or are we still dealing with botanical equipment?

And you claimed its a "FAD," where did this idea come from?

 

I was probably the biggest user of Methanol on this board when I had my Subaru. I went through 5 gallons every 2 weeks if not more. I ran 99% and 50%. In the 4 years I ran methanol on my DD (5 gallons just shows you how hard I drove the piss out of my car) I went through about 14 pumps and about 10 seals (rebuilt pumps).

It's not worth the headache or the extra power. Also methanol fires are the most dangerous type of fire....you can't see the flame.

It works and it works BEAUTIFULLY. But it's not reliable. Just ask a few on the boards here who had failures with zero indication of the oncoming failure. (I know a few but will refrain from naming them).

It's a FAD because that bandwagon has sailed. E85 is the new current FAD which is much much much more safer.

 

2 bottles.

/thread

 

The big ones and by tonight

 

57% of all meth pumps fail
37% of all of those are nozzle failures
87.675% of those failures result in engine failure.

I don't need articles, data or made up numbers, I build Subaru engines for a living and have had a high horsepower Subaru since 2002. I've had meth kits on street cars and on track cars. I used it in the 2007 One Lap of America when high octane fuels weren't available at the track.

The AEM pump looks just like every other pump on the market, I'm sure they replace the seals just like Devils Own and Cooling Mist but that doesn't mean its not going to fail.

I said it was a Fad because that's just what it was. People tend to want reliable power on pump gas now. Since November we have built almost 25 Subaru engines and not one person has even mentioned Meth.

Most of our clients want the same thing a reliable 400-450whp. We can do that on pump gas and it will last.



Side Note:
If you are dead set on running Meth then the AEM kit is not the way to go. Keep doing research, I don't like Meth and won't make recommendations on what is best.

 

For the subarus, it will be used as a preventative measure to help control charge temps and resist detonation. Especially for prolonged periods of boost such as a road course or spirited driving.

Failure there isn't catastrophic. People who use it a degree where failure is catastrophic is irresponsible IMHO.

 

You need to do much more research and actually talk to a tuner and ask their honest 100% unbiased opinion.

Using a fuel to resist detonation is futile....if you add meth you VASTLY change the AFR. Therefore to even run it at all you have to tune. If the failure happens, the AFR will all of a sudden run very very lean and well BOOOOOOM.

 

the whole principal behind meth/water injection was to control detonation with LOW octane fuels in piston driven aircraft and nothing more. It was just a mere bandaid till jets came along.

In short, bad for the street but great if the round-eyes are chasing you in your poorly armored Kate or Zero

 

To make more power you need more fuel, air, and timing.

If you take away the meth then you now have to much air and timing....boom.

The track is the worst place ever for Meth injection.

A properly tuned car won't detonate on track.

How much power are you trying to make?

 

And here is the answer most need to see. You're the 4/5th person I have talked with in the last year that has complained of high failure rates under extensive/extreme use (altho the trend is higher failures with more methanol such as 99% vs a 50/50 split). I thought about doing it on and off for a year and a half. If an individual were to go that route, they would have to be extremely dedicated and constantly verify the system is working properly (as it seems that you did), and even then the risk of sudden failure is still there as slowrx has stated.

 

Thats an unacceptable amount of failures.

What are you trying to accomplish with the meth?

Whats the setup and power level you are at now?

What power level do you want to be at?

 

Me? 340-350whp on a 2 liter/stock internals...
I just haphazardly bought a bunch of parts, am throwing them together, and hoping for the best :sx: lol

 

I installed a Wide band but even that is too late of a notice. You 'have' to get a feel for your car. The slightest indication that you pulled timing you have to be diligent and check the system. Most retards will go out and punch the car again to see if it happens again resulting in engine failure. You don't second guess ANYTHING and don't take anything for granted.

 

What turbo and are you serious about stock internals.

 

MAPerformance bb 20g.... It was purchased with the intention of utilizing it on a hybrid. Long story short, plans change. I wanted to test the turbo out on a 2 liter for shits and giggles, but not really as a long term thing. I know its laggy and there's much better choices out there (I really want a HTA68 or 16G xt for it), but I will utilize it and see how much I like or dislike it. Honestly, It may force me to buy a 257 SB rather than sell/buy new, proper sized turbo...

 

BTW: slowrx, clear your inbox... I can't reply since its full

 

350 on a stock internal 2.0L isn't safe with or without meth. Better have that 257 in the garage waiting.

 

350 on pump on a 2.0 is tough, I did it with a 30R but eventually its going to break and usually in catastrophic fashion.

 

Ahem.....ahem. Me, techlord, Daniel....all 350 hp and myself and Daniel both had/are at 150k+ miles.

 

the real question is, though, knowing what you know now would you have still taken the same route?

 

If I really wanted the power on a stock 2.0L......yes. Because while the maintenance was a pain...we had the pump fixed at the end. It takes me 10 mins to fix a leaking pump...I still have 20 seals in a bag for the SMC pumps in my shed. I wonder if my old pump in Techlord's race car is still not leaking even after sitting a lot. E85 is not widely available here.

Power is no longer a requirement for me anymore and also I don't want a high maintenance car so right now I wouldn't do it. I can't have a weekend car.....I drive the funnest car I have when I have multiple cars. When I had the M3 I also got a Nissan pickup that got way better MPG for free but it stayed parked. Priorities change over time....you will get there one day. But to answer your question if I wanted what I wanted back a few years ago would I do it again knowing what I know? Most likely yes because maintenance is just a part of getting what I want.

 

Love meth but gave it up on the DD still on the race car but probably wont run it anywhere but the strip.

I have a spare system or two I'll sell and a half full 55gal drum of pure meth.