is there one? I'm probably going to buy a smith & wesson M&P 45. put about 50 rounds thru a friends today and was pretty accurate at 8-10 yards. thoughts?
That is a great piece. I have shot one numerous times. I just picked up a H&K P30 9mm and a H&K HK45. Life is good.
yes there are few. AR thread http://wrxatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33287 Home Defense thread http://wrxatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33370 Every Day Carry (EDC) thread http://wrxatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33338 Concealed Carry thread http://wrxatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32844 Same thing as this thread http://wrxatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32747 and there are at least 10 more in the last year alone.... maybe we should petition for a gun forum section, since this seems to be a hot topic and move all these threads there with a sticky for everyone's weapon(s) of choice
07Ltd#767 bought one of those right when they came out. The DA trigger pull is totally crap, and (at least at the time) there was no solution to fix it due to it being a plastic trigger group. Not sure if they have made any changes to it, but I would be cautious of that.
it's a piece of shit. there's a reason it's the cheapest gun sig makes. save your money and get the p226 or p229
I have three M&P pistols and love them all. I just purchased a M&P 45 with the threaded barrel kit from budsgun.com for $512 shipped to my ffl. If you dont need the threaded barrel, Dana Safety in Buford has them with night sights for $499 plus tax. I think you have to ask for a certain person and tell them that is what you were quoted because I went in there and the price was $549. PM if you are interested. One thing you might want to look into getting is the Apex Tactical DCAEK trigger kit. It makes the trigger feel smoother and less pull on it to fire. If you are happy with the trigger, then I wouldnt bother. If you do plan on getting the trigger kit, bring it by the house and I can install it for you.
Ive read and experienced the exact opposite for the SP2022. Read some reviews on the intarweb. First off the sp2022 comes stock DA/SA, and can be converted to DA only. I would describe the DA pull as poor, the SA pull as fair for what the gun is. I would not run DAO on the SP2022. The ones ive fired all worked properly with 0 failures, ran many different types of ammo, and were very accurate and shot to point of aim. Controls, grip, and general ergonomics all would be considered good to great in my book. Sigs across the board have a high bore axis, thats my only complaint. Other then that its a very competitive firearm for the sub ~$400 they can be had for.
ugh, typed a response and accidentally hit the back button...round 2 The trigger pull is terrible. It doesn't fire until the very end of the pull, and it doesn't reset until you release the trigger fully. When firing bursts, this caused many issues, as we didn't let the trigger out far enough to reset the action. I will say, I never had a misfire, and the gun shot accurate, but the trigger made all of us (myself, nicad and wrxin8or) all loath that pistol - it just ruins it. It also caused me to have some trouble shooting other pistols, as I would accidentally discharge a second round when shooting better 1911's, due to their better (imo) trigger action. Granted, these can be overcome with practice and range time, but I just didn't enjoy shooting it. I took it to the gun smith across the street from AllPro (forget the name) and the smith didn't have too many kind words to say about the inner quality of parts. He said he was pretty shocked that sig would use the quality parts they did, and that he couldn't do much with the trigger because of it. I have no idea what this means, as I don't know guns too well, but I knew enough to know to sell it. I guess some people may like it...myself, and everybody else I know who shot that gun, would not rate it better than a 2/10
Maybe I'm a little bias bc I own a 226, but I recently gave the 2022 a try at a range with a buddy of mine to see if he wanted to buy it. I agree with 07, I didn't much care for the trigger, it felt very different from my 226 and it showed on paper dramatically. I also do agree that with time maybe I could have gotten used to it, but it was enough to where I told my friend I wouldn't get one. Additionally, I'm more accustomed and prefer heavier guns like 1911's as that's what I've grown up around, so maybe that's a factor for me too.
I would certainly agree that if you are used to other trigger systems that the sp2022's trigger wont rank in your top 10. However, if its all you know or you train extensively with it its not going to hold you back. The reason why the firearm gets a "good" rating in my book is because of its reliable function, accurate shooting, and general good ergo's and controls baring the trigger and at an affordable price. Im actually on the same page as you, i dislike how deap the trigger releases and it does have a long reset, but its nothing i couldnt train for and still be very effetive with. +1 for no manual safety as well.
Guns to me all boil down to personal preference. Just because I like one gun doesnt mean the next person will. I like my M&P's and will swear by them but there are plenty of people that dont like them. Some people love 1911's but I personally do not...does that mean it isnt a good gun? No, I think it is a phenomenal platform but it isnt for me and I will probably never own one. If it is reliable and you like the way it shoots, then I say go for it.
if you're looking for a reliable 9mm, i would recommend the berreta 92fs. not that glamorous, but it shoots really well, extremely reliable, and you can find them for around $500 if you shop it long enough. I have a smaller hand, so I think the double stack magazine is a tad too big for my liking, but that's a preference thing as well (also why i hated wrxin8or's old USP .45). I would recommend going to a good range, usually you pay a small rental fee and you can use any gun they have. We went a year or two back and I shot just about every gun in 9mm. I don't like the trigger safety, so glocks and springfields were out for me (i REALLY wanted to like the XD). I wasn't a fan of the grip safeties, but after shooting multiple 1911's, I hardly notice them anymore. When you can shoot 20 different guns back to back to back, it makes it a lot easier to pick out what you do and don't like about them. Plus, it's a ton of fun.
Its not my fault you have girly little hands but that USP has (IMO) one of the best triggers you can find
Great information! Thanks for the heads-up. I'm actually used to shooting my friend's Glock 19. It's accurate and it feels pretty good to shoot with its size. The SP2022 was suggested to me by someone at Adventure Outdoors in Marietta. I was drooling over the USP .40 Compact and he told me to take a look at the SP2022. It fits really well in my hand and I like the position of everything as I don't have to reach my thumb half way across the gun to release the slide or any of that. But that trigger issue does seem off-putting. The USP .40 Compact is a serious consideration, but not any time soon. The 8-900$ price tag is what's preventing me from getting it. I've shot the Beretta 92FS, I believe, unless there's another Beretta in 9mm that looks like that. I wasn't a fan in the huge gap in trigger play before it fired. I'm not a heavily experienced shooter, and I probably actually fall under the novice category, but every time I shot the Beretta, because of the trigger play (which is my fault of course), it would shoot to the right because of my pull. I should go to the range again and try it out again. I've shot the XD9 at Dead Center range in Buford/Mall of GA area. It wasn't bad. But the styling wasn't to my liking and the grip wasn't that great. It was just cool that it had an underside laser sight. lol And it was really accurate. Any other good, reliable, fairly priced hand guns that I should be looking at? You guys are much more knowledgeable than me about any of this stuff. :bowdown: Thanks for the input.
Whats the purpose of the gun? Look cool, show off, and go to the range? Or actually serve a purpose like carrying concealed, car gun, and/or bedside home protection?
I'd skip a .40, and either go 9mm or .45. Also, you know why the USP is so expensive? Because its fucking worth it.
If it is a home defense gun, I would just get a full size 9mm and call it a day. Having 17 rounds will be hard to beat for home defense. Glock, Springfield, S&W M&P are all proven platforms that seem to be very popular. Bullseye in Lawrenceville has a lot of guns you can rent. You are also more than welcome to try out my M&P if you supply your own ammo. I live like 5 minutes from you and could even meet you at Norcross gun club. They also have a bunch of guns to rent but their fees are expensive.
Im going to try and dumb this down as best as i can. For starters, Full size = ~5" barrel, full size grip Compact = ~4" barrel, sometimes full size grip, sometimes slightly shortened grip Subcompact = ~3" barrel, typically shortened grip to the extend to where there is no room for you pinky on the grip. Pocket gun = ~3" barrel, single stack instead of double stack for the slimmest dimensions possible. Big push for the smallest dimensions and lightest weight to make carrying as easy as possible. For home defense, where space is not at a premium, you are going to want a full size hand gun. They have longer barrels which allow for the bullet to leave with more engery and a longer site radius for more accurate shooting. They typically weigh more which means less felt recoil so you can pop rounds off more quickly and effeciently. They also typically hold the maximum capacity of the rounds available. What works great for home defense does not work great for carrying though. When you carry concealed on your person, its tough to be effective at really concealing a full size firearm. Full size guns are also usually heavier, which cause you clothing to droop, and much less comfortable to carry because of their portly dimensions. Enter the sub compacts and pocket guns. Many concessions are made so that the firearms are easier to conceal and more comfortable to carry. What they typically give up is mag capacity, site radius, any sort of shooter comfort typically sucks trying to grip a small snappy sub compact with only 2 fingers since your pinky is left hanging, and short barrel length which means less bullet energy. Great for the strict needs of carrying, not great for much else. The tried and true compact is usually a happy median. But its far from perfect. Its the zip tie and duct tape of the hand gun world. Its a simple solution that works, but is not a great solution to all. For me? Full size-bedside(not counting my long guns, for another time perhaps). There is no better shooting then full size, the extra heft, longer sites, and less recoil makes you feel like a pro. Compacts- in both of my cars with conceal carry holsters for anything im doing after driving somewhere. Pocket- for any time i may be physically active, hugging people, or in general am lazy about holstering up. I pass over subcompact because their width plays a big role in that they are still typically double stack, and if im going that small, i want the most comfortable of the most comfortable. 2 real good choices for people who are undecided. The Ruger SR9C and the Springfield XDM. They have "hybrid" barrel lengths of ~3.8" and also have a hybrid grip and mags. They come with 1 short mag that makes it carry more like subcompact, and one full size mag, where the magazine becomes part of the grip to do an adapter, so you then have a full size magazine and grip. This was a perfect canidate for my car gun. Full size capacity while driving, Sub compact carrying ability while out of the car. So once you decide what length is right for you, your next step is to decide what trigger and safety systems you prefer.
ugh. if you want home defense, get a mossberg 500 and call it day. if you want a fun pistol, pick out what suits you best. if you want something that looks cool, get a BFG and boom, done. mmm...$5.00 rounds from an M82A1. Killing things from over a mile. Sexy.
A pump action, short barrel 12 or 20 gauge is still the best home protection gun. We don't have one as I don't have a safe (or a secure location in the bedroom..remember...live with a 1 yr old) so I have the HK45 with a light mounted for that purpose in a lock box by the bed (that I hopefully never have to use for that purpose). The H&K P30 9mm was bought as a fun/shoot holes in paper gun and for carry in the vehicle for when I am in really bad areas of cities. The reality is that I would give up everything I own at that point to avoid getting in to a random gun fight, but it is there for situations that may call for it (again...that I hope I never have to experience). I do practice with the HK45 but it is a lot cheaper to have fun shooting things with a 9mm and I may even consider picking up a 22mm for those days I really want to pop off a bunch of rounds. Handguns for me are very much what I told my wife when we got her a gen 4 Glock 19 9mm...get whichever one you are most comfortable holding and shoot the most accurate with. Ultimately...that is what is most important. We had her shoot a lot of guns before we found the one that worked for her and she is deadly accurate with it. She doesn't have to think...the gun just fits her hand and shoots the way that compliments her trigger and reaction preferences. Whatever you end up practicing with is what you will be the best at shooting. If you start with the best fit and initial accuracy for you...it narrows down the practice timeline. Just my .02.
Yes... Perfect because it will hit the bad guy.. or a wall and stop. A 9mm will keep going till it hits something really hard, or your neighbor.
If you haven't already set your mind on a particular gun for your specific purpose (defense/carry/range/whatever), I recommend getting a cheap to shoot .22lr pistol. No, it's not ideal for many of your needs, but it serves one very important purpose - practice. Learning to shoot well and hit your target is important because it won't matter what caliber, grip size, or trigger feel your pistol has if you can't hit your target. I have put thousands of rounds through my .22 and now I can pick up just about any pistol and hit my desired target.
My first pistol was a .22 as well, and it was the best thing I ever did. My only problem with that was that my first pistol was a 1911-22. Big mistake. When you are shooting .22 it's easy to shoot a lot of rounds, and you get VERY accostumbed(sp?) to whatever system you are using. I made myself a SA trigger snob overnight. So much that I wouldn't consider owning a firearm that didn't have an excellent SA trigger. My carry and defensive needs and research grew, and have been converting to almost exclusively DAO striker fired handguns. The last gun in my series to make that change is going to be my sig p238. But yeah if HD is your biggest interest, there is nothing like a shot gun and buck shot. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have a handgun in or on my bedside(easy to securely lock and unlock quickly). But long guns in general are infinitely more effective at stopping threats then pistols.
i'm actually going to swing by and chat with mike at dana's tomorrow. apparently he'll let me get the S&W M&P 45 for the $549 with night sights and 3 magazines. how much is the trigger kit, i may just take you up on it. its alittle bit of a heavy pull
Nice, I got mine yesterday as well The trigger kit is about $80 and I can install it in about 30 minutes. It really isnt that hard if you have the right size punches. They also have yourtube videos you can watch on Apex's channel.
My biggest/only issue with the M&P series was that the OEM trigger was particularly crunchy. Never tried one with the apex kit.
I will have three tonight all with the apex kit installed if you want to try one The VTAC series actually had a slightly different trigger and felt better stock than my other two M&P's.
Well to take things to the pocket carry side, I picked up a sig 938 on Monday. I originally was going to go for the 238 but I had a crazy dream that I was in a situation and trying to load 9mm for my 226 into it. Anyways, only a 300rds in, but it essentially feels like a 238, the grip is slightly larger and for me makes it easier for my hand to grip the gun. It's definitely a lot more front flippy than a 238, but still pretty controllable considering its size. Also, like the 238, the trigger is kinda meh, and grainy, but I'm really hoping it smooths out with some more shooting time. Looks like my skinny ass finally has something I can wear and not be too obvious about it.
nice! I have always kinda wanted one of these. any issues with it so far? about how much did you pay for it?
After being in the military, I have shot LOTS of weapons, and my favorite is still the .40. Extremely accurate up to 25 yards (if you know what you are doing), lightweight, and not nearly as bulky as the .45. Plenty of knockdown power as well.
I'm chalking the following up to it being new vs. issues but... The springs on the mags are really really heavy, like my thumb is really sore today from loading rounds, I bought the 938 extreme mostly for the 7rd mag with the extended grip for my pinky (makes a huuuge improvement in my grouping at 15ft). That 7rd mag I really have to fight with it to get the last two in. The 6d mag its just the last round that is a bit of effort. When I first loaded the gun to fire the first time, it wouldn't chamber a round if either mag was fully loaded, but after a box of rounds that no longer happens. Only thing I'm wondering about is the trigger, its kinda grainy feeling still, and I also imagine for safety reasons just a little on the heavy side but I may look to get it worked bc I'm comfortable with carrying with 4-5lb triggers. I'm going to try running a few hundred more rounds this weekend and hope it smooths out. I was imaptient after calling and searching for the past week, but finally found one at bullseye in cumming for 699. Yeah, pricey but I guess that's just sig for ya. It's up to their usual quality standards IMO, just really hope it breaks in and feels buttery smooth like the 226 I have.
I too was eyeing the 938 since I was having a hard time finding a shield. Bullseye in Lawrenceville has them for $649 right now. They have an extreme and black edition in stock. Still might end up getting one....just want to enjoy my shield for now.
Well if we are talking the same bullseye, then I've got that extreme The midnight (i think thats what the other was) is the $649 one. Both felt great, I just wanted to have the extended mag from the get go.
Awesome man. I still have my decked out 238, took it to my local gunsmith Gawaway Machine and Tool and got the trigger taken to ~4lbs. The 238 already had a better trigger then any OEM 938 that ive shot, but he does great trigger jobs at great rates. I wanted a 938 to replace my 238, but have comitted to DAO no safeties. So my next pick up with is going to be one of the below, in order of preferance. 1)XDS 9mm(when it finally comes out) 2)Bersa BP9cc 3)S&W Shield
Sweet, thanks for the info, I think I will talk to them about my 938 once I get some more time with it. I do agree its definitely not quite as nice as my buddies 238 that I've logged a lot of time with, just hope I can get it there. I was with you on the DAO idea also to keep it familiar to my 226, but at the end of the day, I just really loved the look of the 238/938 I have high hopes for the XDS, just didn't want to wait any longer.
Nah different bullseye....Bullseye Range is in Lawrenceville and they have both @ $649. I agree....I would buy the extreme as well is I got one.