Penn St and Joe Paterno

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Cool_____, Nov 10, 2011.

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  1. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    I'm a Penn State fan. 46 yrs as head coach with one of the best programs in the country and you fire the dude responsible for it all.

    I mean it's horrible whats going on but Paterno reported it to the higher up in command. He did his job. It was the Athletic director's responsibility to do so.

    What does everyone else think?
  2. BKiller

    BKiller Active Member

    Sounds like he did his job by reporting it and wasn't actively trying to cover it up or anything. It's a shame it went down like that.
    How many allegations do you think a football coach hears about a staff member or player every season? 100s???

    I'm not a Penn State fan but I think this whole thing is BS.
  3. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    Yeah people are saying that he should have went straight to the cops. I say he isn't the law and he wasn't the one covering it up.
  4. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    My wife (who works for Department of Social Services Child Services Division) said it best.

    Just because someone knew about what was going on...Law enforcement and DSS may have been involved but if there was no evidence and the victim were not willing to verbally disclose out of fear be it through forensic interview or lack of physical evidence in a physical exam...for all we know DSS and LE could have investigated and unfounded it due to lack of evidence....happens all the time...unfortunately. A child can be sexually abused without the person ever leaving physical evidence and children at times can be unwilling to disclose.
  5. Matt

    Matt Think before you post Staff Member Supporting Member

    the fact that the individual who reported it to Joe Pa is still a coach on the team is rather disconcerting as well....

    or at least last I read, he was...

  6. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    That individual was not a coach at the time the incident would happen would be the explanation I bet.
  7. Matt

    Matt Think before you post Staff Member Supporting Member

    you're right...he wasn't a coach, but he was a graduate student and was on the staff of the team.

    Read more:
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
  8. 07Ltd#767

    07Ltd#767 The Neighborhood Drunk

    if you defend paterno or anybody else at Penn St, you're just plain wrong. There is no defense for this kind of action. Delette, as a father to be, I can't believe you would even begin to defend him. As a human being, no administration should supersede basic human rights by trying to cover it up. That's what they did - THEY COVERED IT UP. Joe Paterno knew, don't kid yourself. Sandusky is / was still related to the program, working hand in hand with PS overseeing youth camps. Hell, Sandusky had a 'charity' set up for little boys. They covered this up because they thought they were above the law and they could get away with it - PERIOD.

    If you haven't read the grand jury report, read it, then come back in here and tell me your opinion. They going into details about multiple, MULTIPLE events, noises that were made, the looks on the kids faces. It infuriates me to sit here and write this; there is ZERO defense for this.

    The average child molester abuses 107 children - and that's just the average. As this goes on, more and more people will come forward and Sandusky's number will do nothing buy go up. Had somebody stood up and did what should have been done - had Joe Paterno stood up and done the right thing back in 1996 when this was first reported - imagine how many innocent children could have been saved.

    I'm not blaming Paterno directly, but he was involved and he must be held accountable. Paterno ran PS, much like Tressel and Ohio St. You give a single person this much power, you better hold them accountable for their actions and the actions of those they lead.

    What's sad is, he took a 46 year legacy as one of the best coaches all time and threw it away in less than 5 minutes.
  9. Matt

    Matt Think before you post Staff Member Supporting Member

    how was he still related to the program when he left in 99 and this allegedly took place in 02?

    How about you link the grand jury report so we can read it.
  10. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    What was Paterno supposed to do? This was all second hand information that was passed to him....he never witnessed or saw or heard anything first hand. So he followed protocol and reported it. For all we know, he could have been told by his superiors that it was being handled....who knows what he was told. Was he supposed to refuse to do his job over an 'allegation' that he had absolutely no proof or evidence of?

    Drew I've heard things about you and your friends....I'm sure you've heard things about me. But I don't know if it's true or just talk so I don't judge anyone over anything I haven't experienced first hand or have been presented hard evidence of.

    Link the report please.
  11. 07Ltd#767

    07Ltd#767 The Neighborhood Drunk

    I'll find the link when i get a few minutes. The first incident took place in 1996. He was fired in 2002.

    In 1998, victim number 6 was taken into the showers and raped. There's a time line that portrays everything. He's still related to the program to this year. Maybe not as a coach, but he was still using PS facilities for his charity, as well as using their weight room facilities and locker rooms for personal use. He still had free reign at PS. He was reported on campus LAST WEEK.
  12. 07Ltd#767

    07Ltd#767 The Neighborhood Drunk

    You have NEVER heard about anyone molesting multiple innocent boys. Ever. You report it to the proper authorities, not to your boss. Even if it's only speculation, you still report it, then let investigators find out the facts.

    The bottom line is, had somebody turned him over to the proper authorities a decade ago, think about how many innocent people would have been saved.
  13. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    He 'WAS' reported to the authorities. They admitted it.

    Matt can you copy the excerpts that my wife posted on FB on here (I have no access to FB at the moment)? She pretty much explained the process. The legal system can't admit any reporting until an actual conviction was made.
  14. 07Ltd#767

    07Ltd#767 The Neighborhood Drunk

    Paterno never reported this to anybody other than the AD and vice president of football operations.
  15. 07Ltd#767

    07Ltd#767 The Neighborhood Drunk

  16. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    I agree he probably should've dug deeper but if he was told by LE that it was being handled then why would he think that he should have went further.

    Campus Police is LE but they were being hushed then JoePa prolly didn't know anything about it and had no reason to think he should go further than Campus LE.

    And before anyone says Campus LE is not real LE....they have all the same rights and authority as the State LE....just their jurisdiction is limited to campus.

    And to add to all of this.....many people can be bought to some extent....I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it happened to sweep this under the rug cause we know it did.
  17. 07Ltd#767

    07Ltd#767 The Neighborhood Drunk

    Bottom line - Paterno knew. Whether you want to put any blame on him or not, he was still an enabler by allowing this predator to not only walk the streets, but to focus a large portion of his life around the victims he sodomized.
  18. 07Ltd#767

    07Ltd#767 The Neighborhood Drunk

    Are you serious? Paterno had more power in and aroudn that campus than anybody else. Don't be naive. The only reason it wasn't reported was because they thought they could get away with it.
  19. Matt

    Matt Think before you post Staff Member Supporting Member

    In a working environment, you should follow protocol. You can't just jump ahead of the line and call the cops. You should follow protocol and report it to your boss and/or HR rep. I would do the same. It's not MY duty to call the police for something I haven't witnessed myself. It's not MY duty, in a working environment, to call the police. Look up in your employee handbook, and it will tell you the same thing. You report it to your boss...if they do nothing, report it to HR. If they do nothing, keep going up the food chain.

    Joe stated he never saw any of it. He was a third party. The grad student should have gone straight to the AD and higher if need be. He did what he, as an employee of the school, was supposed to do.

    JoePa is being blamed only because he is the face of the team and the school, but there are far more people farther up than he is who should be and are in trouble.
  20. 07Ltd#767

    07Ltd#767 The Neighborhood Drunk

    omg, seriously? He didn't steal a stapler, he was a part of MULTIPLE CHILD RAPES.

    And, fwiw, more people are getting fired. The school president, the AD, the president and vice president of football operations, the head coach, and I'm sure many, many more.

    Also, McCleary, the interim coach coaching this weekend - he was also a part of it. Talks are that he will be fired shortly as well.
  21. Matt

    Matt Think before you post Staff Member Supporting Member

    how was he part of it? He stated he never saw any of it, he never participated. If you think he held the kid down while Sandusky apparently did this, then you need to open your eyes.

    coach fulfilled his obligation, plain and simple.

    Also, from what I read, the AD called Sandusky into the office and told him there were reports and there will be an investigation. There was no cover up if you get the campus police involved.
  22. b reel

    b reel Active Member

    Guess moral obligation gets thrown out the window when you reach upper management.
  23. 07Ltd#767

    07Ltd#767 The Neighborhood Drunk

    I'm not trying to compare Paterno to Sandusky - there's no comparison there. The latter is a very, very sick man who will wish he was no longer living when he gets to prison.

    All i'm saying is, Paterno enabled this and should be held accountable for this.

    or, maybe i just take the raping, sodomizing and abusing of innocent 10 year old boys, multiple boys, a little more serious than the rest of me, anybody who knew about this and didn't do EVERYTHING in their power to stop it should be held accountable in some respect.
  24. Matt

    Matt Think before you post Staff Member Supporting Member

    Don't get me wrong, it's VERY wrong what happened, but blaming coach for it is a cop out. I want to see physical proof that he 'enabled' this to happen. He's an employee just like the rest of them.

    No where in the grand jury report that you linked showed where coach enabled or had ANY knowledge of it happening after the initial meeting he had with the AD.
  25. nicad

    nicad Yes I am a troll

    he should have called the police. end of story.

    when someone is committing a felony, you don't call your parents or your college professor.
  26. 07Ltd#767

    07Ltd#767 The Neighborhood Drunk

    Physical proof? How about the fact that he knew anything about it and still allowed Sandusky to be affiliated with the program? I'm curious to see what all comes out of this as well, but I fear it's only going to lead to more and more innocent children coming forward. If that's the case, how much more 'enabling' do you need?

    Paterno heard the following - sandusky, shower, little boy

    You can fill in any other details you want, but those three terms should have been enough to dictate more action than was taken.
  27. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    I just read that entire report.....disturbing.

    But Paterno is mentioned TWICE. One is victim 2 which was where the intern told Paterno who then told the AD. That report that the AD and DSS was NEVER involved but there was meetings between the intern and AD but Paterno was not involved. Paterno was told it was all being handled. Paterno was probably lied to and told that there was no evidence. It's ALL third hand info that Paterno had no knowledge of.

    The second was simply saying Paterno announced his retirement in I believe 99 and that Sandusky was upset about it.....Paterno had NOTHING to do with it.

    Penn St was a scene of a lot of the stuff but it all started outside in The Second Mile Program. But since Paterno knew nothing of everything he really had no reason to second guess Sandusky.

    Paterno's downfall was admitted now that he wished he did more but at the time you can't blame him.

    Coach shouldn't have taken the fall for anything. Hell janitors saw something and they didn't report a dang thing in 'fear' of their jobs. At least Coach reported it.

    As a father I'm very upset and all. But as a father I don't see where Paterno failed because in no way, shape, or form did Paterno 'enable' anything to happen because he had ZERO knowledge of it other than 1 third part 'allegation' that was reported as 'unfounded'.

    Now if it was me I would have reported straight to the police. Paterno is an old man therefore he is set in the old school ways that you report it to the responsible party via chain of command (the school policy).

    Now that intern.....those janitors. THEY should have went STRAIGHT to the authorities in addition to letting Paterno know. Yet the intern still has his job.....for now. The janitors were all old people I think.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
  28. Jake

    Jake Active Member

    I agree, if paterno wasnt going to call the cops himself, he should have stayed on the AD's ass to do something about it. However, firing Paterno is the wrong answer. I agree with ESPN that McCleary should have been let go, for being the one present and not immediately going to the cops. He is the reason Joe Pa lost his job, not Joe Pa. And the administration is to blame for the current mess, they should have enacted years ago because of how it wound up getting reported. Since they didn't they can't turn around and fire people now. It doesn't solve anything.
  29. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    Who knows what Paterno was told by the AD. For all Paterno knew, and he stated this himself, it was being handled. Paterno probably was under the impression that this was more than it was made out to be.
  30. 07Ltd#767

    07Ltd#767 The Neighborhood Drunk

    I can see the angle that Paterno didn't know all the details. I see this because I can see him as not wanting to know so he can't be held accountable. If Paterno WANTED to know, he had more than enough influence to figure it out. Paterno WAS Penn State, that man probably held more power than the school president.

    And, IMHO, him holding his own press conference to tell the board they don't need to investigate anything and that he would retire at the end of the season shows what an arrogant person he was in regards to that program.
  31. Matt

    Matt Think before you post Staff Member Supporting Member

    Like I said before, you can't just call the police on here say. In a working environment, you follow protocol. End of story.

    If you heard from someone else at work that they were committing a felony AT WORK, you, as an employee, do NOT call the police. It's not up to you to handle that. It's up to management.
  32. longfury

    longfury Active Member

    I think Paterno got caught in some else's shit storm and couldn't help getting hit.

    I agree with Matt and Cool on this one.
  33. Matt

    Matt Think before you post Staff Member Supporting Member

    how about Michael Jackson? How many kids who initially were 'involved' in his scandal came back after they grew up and recanted their story? I can think of at least 2. Their parents put them up to it because of his status.

    I'm not, in any way, saying that these didn't happen, but again, we don't have 100% verifiable proof that it did.

  34. b reel

    b reel Active Member

    Duke Lacrosse team anyone?
  35. 07Ltd#767

    07Ltd#767 The Neighborhood Drunk

    so let me ask you this - if that was Paterno's son or grandson that Sandusky sodomized in the showers, think the outcome would be the same? Put yourself in Paterno's shoes - what do you think the outcome would've been?

    That's why I say he enabled this - he didn't do everything in his power to stop this or future attacks
  36. ChrisW

    ChrisW Member

    there is an exception when said felony is a violent act though, right?

    When someone is setting a fire in the hallway, you dont call your boss. You call 911, right?
  37. rsutton1223

    rsutton1223 Obsessed Supporting Member

    The school is in a position where they have to fire everyone who knew about it. That is what is happening here...regardless of what anyone thinks. Pressure from the families involved and the media.

    The entire thing is sick on a whole different level. Hopefully the kids effected can somewhat put their lives back together. They are the real victims...not anyone that just lost their job.
  38. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    No you get the hell out.
  39. Matt

    Matt Think before you post Staff Member Supporting Member

    definitely. fire, shooting, etc...get the f out if you can, call 911.
  40. 07Ltd#767

    07Ltd#767 The Neighborhood Drunk

    i'm pretty sure you're legally obligated to call the authorities if you witness any felony. Not 100% sure on that, though
  41. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    Key word witness.

    Paterno didn't witness anything.
  42. 07Ltd#767

    07Ltd#767 The Neighborhood Drunk

    Put this in perspective. Again, i'm not blaming Paterno, I'm just saying he needs to be held accountable for his actions or lack there of
  43. nicad

    nicad Yes I am a troll

  44. FTZ

    FTZ ^.^

    Paterno in his position was a Mandated Reporter, just like every teacher in every school in this country. It is his obligation as a Mandated Reporter to report any suspicion of abuse, whether he has evidence or not. He failed in that responsibility.
  45. bixs

    bixs Supporting Member

    from comments lol
  46. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    Apparently everyone is not getting the point.

    If Paterno was told that the authorities were contacted why would he need to contact them 'again'. From a statement I saw earlier he said that he was informed that the authorities were contacted.

    Hell if you to the core of your being trust a person and honestly believe they contacted the police then I can see a fraction of why you wouldn't go further because obviously matters are being taken care of.

    I agree that more should have been done....don't get me wrong. I would have called the police myself if not beat the hell outta the dude. But to blame Paterno is immature. Yes if he took further action it could've prevented more....but it's not his fault it happened. And to say he 'enabled' it is just pathetic and blind for those of you that think that way. That's just like saying in the case of a drunk driver killing someone.....that the bartender or the sales clerk 'enabled' it.
  47. Cool_____

    Cool_____ Banned

    But he did report it. What part of that don't you comprehend? He reported it to who he thought was taking care of the situation. Paterno thought and was under the impression that authorities were contacted and doing what needed to be done.

    But I will not argue that the law probably should have been contacted HOWEVER I can't fault Paterno if he was under the impression that it was being taken care of properly.
  48. 07Ltd#767

    07Ltd#767 The Neighborhood Drunk

    yeah...great job that stand up Paterno guy did, letting a KNOWN child molester walk his halls. Nothing but honor there...

  49. bixs

    bixs Supporting Member

    I think you need to consult someone that actually knows law sometime.

    Makes me think of this situation:
    I work at a software company that sells medical software.

    Hypothetical situation, if a nurse recognizes me while I'm shopping in walmart and mentions that vitals during a case were lost possibly because of our software having a bug. IF I DON'T follow through with that complaint and make sure it gets handled fully, my CEO will be arrested and the company fined a massive amount. This is law, get used to it.

    ^That is also a direct example from the FDA consultants that are in the process of teaching us.
  50. FTZ

    FTZ ^.^

    I can't find any information on who a Mandatory Reporter is required to report to, but I am pretty sure that for cases such as sexual abuse, they are required to report it to their Administration and LE. If that is true, and he only reported to the Administration, he failed to do his job.
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