oh...i don't know. something like this? ^Speaking of fenders/smoothed in. The sharp line has been around for a while. They may just mesh it in a little more. Easier to see on this color
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGNi-VXul2M&feature=player_embedded oh god i am so excited... if it was turbo'ed it would be perfect but still good enough
LOL at Matt's post (no. 86). My reason for finding that funny is that, while I really like the idea of this car (finally a new sports car UNDER the 3,000 lb mark, at least until my fat ass gets in it), but at 25,000+ dollars I couldn't help but find myself thinking really hard about a low mileage Mustang GT 5.0 or possibly a well kept 370Z. But then I saw that post and realized that the Stang really is a BIG car. Not that I didn't know that, but you don't realize how big until you see that sort of comparison. Still, I love the idea of a light and agile chassis, but I can't help but wonder if I'd get bored with this car's power in short order living in Atlanta, as it seems like 75% the fun I get to experience around here is just on exit and on ramps since I hardly get out of town and traffic sucks. I'd like for my next car to be a two door, rear drive something in this price range, but I'm not sure if this is for me or not. I guess just wait and see. /ramble.
I guess the problem with everyone on this board is they are addicted to the turbo feel of their cars. Don't get me wrong I absolutely LOVED the way my car felt. But I wasn't hitting full boost all the time and the lag associated (with my car at least) was at times cumbersome. Then I got the M3 and the instant throttle feel just made the car so enjoyable. I found myself liking responsiveness way more than explosive mid range power. Blipping the throttle and feeling the car lurch forward was enough and it put a smile on my face without me having to break the speed limit. It's all in what people like and want out of their cars. As they say.....different strokes for different folks.
Probably shouldn't say everyone on this board, there is certainly a wide variety of vehicles owned/previously owned by members.
You have a point, but notice that none of the other options I said I would consider in that price range have a turbo charger. That's actually a big reason why I listed those vehicles- in my next car, when my foot hits the go pedal I want it to do just that- GO, as in, immediately. No more, "Let's think about that a second and take a long warm up breath." I agree with what you've said about a good NA powerplant. I don't go around street racing, but it's frustrating when you need to get in front of and around that mini-van so you don't miss the turn lane and your 2.0 doesn't want to wake up. That climb from off idle to 2,500 rpm can seem like an eternity when you're really in a tight spot.
roll them all you want, I wasn't trying to be condescending, I'm just asking. I personally prefer the turbo manual b/c when I want to drive in boost, I can dictate my gearing to make sure I don't drop into a laggy zone. When I'm making a passing maneuver, whether planned or in an emergency, it's just an instinctive reaction to switch to whatever gear puts me in my power zone. Prime example - my STi at peak power levels against Nicad's M5. Obviously the M is nicer through and through, but anybody who's driven both will tell you the STi felt faster, even though statistically they're pretty close in power / weight ratio, and the M may take it in straight line
:| I'm not really unamused, but refer to: Can't really downshift from first. From a dead stop I've been known to rev it up to about 3 grand and let off the clutch pretty quickly, but I'd rather not have to abuse the car to get around Hilda and her Voyager full of rug rats. Granted, it's not really a big deal and these turbo fours are fun, but I'm just trying to quantify why I think I'm ready to try something different next time around. I'm the sort of guy who eventually tries to get around to sampling all the flavors in the ice cream shop. See what I mean? (No fat jokes, please.)
You are talking pure power. Me and K. Marx are talking about practicality and ease of use. My car has NEVER been usable in first gear even in stock form....punch it in first and you either light it up, bog it up, or lag. M3 was perfect...if you spun you were still moving and actually able to just get the car out and up to where you want it (fish tail power slide FTW). I've never really had issues at speed because like you said....I downshifted. Mostly it was stop and go stop and go traffic where the lag bit. First was too short and second was too tall. Would love to see this BRZ come with some aftermarket options to swap out the ring and pinion in the diffs. Boy did the 4.10 in the M3 make that car hella fun (I recall the grins on my and wrxin8or's face when he drove the heck outta my car....also recall him scaring me to death cause I didn't know how well he could drive....LOL).
for a car that tips the scales under 2800lbs how can it fail? 86mm x 86mm bore & stroke, direct injection, variable valve timing and high compression... fuck a turbo give me a 75-100 shot off the line.
I loved my RX8 in terms of handling and engine response. It was just too small, too thirsty on fuel, had too high of a potential for engine failure. Those are the only reasons I traded it for the '08 hatch I had before my '11 sedan. RWD sports cars are fun on a different level compared to our AWD sports sedan/hatches/wagons. I am 6'6', 210lbs+ and have a 38" waist and 36" inseam. I would love to have a car like this in the future. I just don't see how I can fit in it comfortably.
I don't understand why people NEED a turbo. Other friends I've discussed this car with are saying it'll be a dog until they put a turbo on it. Sorry, but 300HP and sub 3k in weight is a bad idea.
I think I've mentioned that to a few people. Just because it's an STI doesn't mean it needs 305hp or a turbo. They are aiming for a lightweight CHEAP sports car, not a "hang with the big boys" contender.
I dunno... I would like high compression, high rpms and a rotrex supercharger. I think that would be a wicked setup.
I think part of the problem is that there has been no high performance NA motor offerings from Subaru in years. Personally, I am not skeptical BECAUSE it's a NA powerplant - it's because its an NA powerplant from Subaru! The 2.5i motor was not very inspiring... I think this new motor could be a HUGE improvement with variable valve timing and Direct Injection. I think as soon as people read the BRZ has no turbo just makes them think that it will drive like a PZEV 2.5i econobox (though I am sure that will not be the case). This. I think a supercharged flat four would kick ass.
Matt, I mean this in the most serious way possible and I'm not trying to be a dick. Have you ever owned anything fast, I'm not talking about Stage 2 STI fast I mean really fast? My car is 2800lbs and makes 430whp on low boost and could be completely streetable for almost anyone if I made a few changes. 300 hp is nothing and 2800 lbs isn't that light. What makes 300hp in that car a bad idea?
Dunno about Matt but I have owned a few. And I don't NEED a turbo. I like responsiveness and on demand power. Like I said not everyone wants the same thing.
Never owned, but have driven. AWD is easier to drive than RWD IMO. I'm not discounting your statement, but I think it's true. I just see more/easier ways of failure when someone slaps a turbo on...anything.
Driving a BRZ with 200hp is going to be like driving a fast Miata, by the end of the day you are going to be bored with it. Cars that have more grip than power are fun but usually not for long.
AWD is easier to drive in some sense for sure. Anytime you make things more complicated there are more chances for failure.
We talking about the out of showroom experience or are you two now talking about needing to mod it after purchase? It's supposed to be a fast miata..
A little of both really. Of all the STIs Subaru sells how many do you think go a full year without being modded?
When I drive the miata I'm smiling ALL the time from its quick reflexes but when I drive my bugeye I'm complaining from it's delayed steering, throttle response but the worst of all is the driving position (mind you I am 6 ft tall) I really want to sit lower like in a proper sports car. I do have a bit of a laugh when the turbo kicks in but that's about the only joy I get. I don't live my life quarter mile at a time and I rather be smiling all the time at whatever speed I drive rather than only when the boost comes on.
So much for the lightweight fun sports car.... I guess 2882lbs is light by todays standards, but unless they up the power the car is going to be a dog. I don't care how nimble and good it handles... 14.6lbs to 1hp is not fun to drive. For example.... taken from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-weight_ratio FT-86 14.6lb/hp Mini - 13lb/hp RX8 - 12lb/hp STI - 11lb/hp C6Z06 - 6lb/hp Toyota Venza 14.4lb/hp
'04 s2000 (AP2) = 2800 lbs, 240 hp, 162 tq, 14.2-14.4 ET p:w 11.6 NC MX5 Miata = 2450 lbs, 170 hp, 140 tq, 15.2-15.5 ET p:w 14.4 Put things in perspective in accordance to the market they are chasing.